TOHO TREASURE BEADS

I just found TOHO Treasure beads at wal-mart. I looked at their website and
they say that they are same as Muyki delicas. Has anyone tried these? They
were a lot cheaper than the bead shop delicas.

I ordered some brown seed beads from Whim beads and their were so many beads
that were misformed and the size was not uniform. They were size 11. Is
this a common problem when you order online? Do they use seconds? I
probably will never order from them again. And if this is the norm, I will
not order from online again with any bead catalouge.

.............Windy

windy wrote:
I just found TOHO Treasure beads at wal-mart. I looked at their website and
they say that they are same as Muyki delicas. Has anyone tried these? They
were a lot cheaper than the bead shop delicas.

I ordered some brown seed beads from Whim beads and their were so many beads
that were misformed and the size was not uniform. They were size 11. Is
this a common problem when you order online? Do they use seconds? I
probably will never order from them again. And if this is the norm, I will
not order from online again with any bead catalouge.

............Windy

`````````````````````````````````````
Wow, that's weird. I LOVE Whimbeads. I buy from them in bulk at every
bead show. (I mean BULK)

windy wrote:
I just found TOHO Treasure beads at wal-mart. I looked at their website and
they say that they are same as Muyki delicas. Has anyone tried these? They
were a lot cheaper than the bead shop delicas.

I ordered some brown seed beads from Whim beads and their were so many beads
that were misformed and the size was not uniform. They were size 11. Is
this a common problem when you order online? Do they use seconds? I
probably will never order from them again. And if this is the norm, I will
not order from online again with any bead catalouge.

............Windy

````````````````````````````
Maybe I should add: I don't like Delicas, too boxy and no flow to them
for beadweaving. I like a more organic look.

I don't use Delica's that often either but I did want to say that I've never
had a problem with WhimBeads either. Did you contact them to see if they'd
replace the beads?

If you're doing an amult bag or some picture pattern Delica's or Treasure
beads are the way to go anyways. But I'm like Sooz and like it a little less
uniform unless I'm going for the uniform look to a piece. But my pieces tend
towards organic as well, not the precise Delica look.
--
Valerie
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.valeriebeads.com
http://valeriebeads.etsy.com

Come join OrphanBeads, sales and trading for the financially challenged
beader!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orphanbeads
"Dr. Sooz" wrote in message
oups.com...
windy wrote:
I just found TOHO Treasure beads at wal-mart. I looked at their website
and
they say that they are same as Muyki delicas. Has anyone tried these?
They
were a lot cheaper than the bead shop delicas.

I ordered some brown seed beads from Whim beads and their were so many
beads
that were misformed and the size was not uniform. They were size 11. Is
this a common problem when you order online? Do they use seconds? I
probably will never order from them again. And if this is the norm, I
will
not order from online again with any bead catalouge.

............Windy

````````````````````````````
Maybe I should add: I don't like Delicas, too boxy and no flow to them
for beadweaving. I like a more organic look.

Well then I guess maybe I just got a bad batch of beads... it happens. I
feel better now about whimbeads and will give them another try. They did
write back to me and suggested that I try Delicas for a more uniform look
but that is not what I want either. The batch of beads I got had really odd
shaped beads in it... like fat on one side and go down to very skinny on the
other or they had tails hanging off of them like when they cut them,
something pull them out from the blade. I am sure it was someones first day
on the cutter who made my batch.

As for the TOHO's the price is right and I think I will give them a try. On
their website they sell 100 grams and 5 grams. But Wal-mart sells the 4
inch tube. (or I think it is about 4 inchs.)

Thanks again for your support.............Windy
"Valerie" wrote in message
...
I don't use Delica's that often either but I did want to say that I've
never had a problem with WhimBeads either. Did you contact them to see if
they'd replace the beads?

If you're doing an amult bag or some picture pattern Delica's or Treasure
beads are the way to go anyways. But I'm like Sooz and like it a little
less uniform unless I'm going for the uniform look to a piece. But my
pieces tend towards organic as well, not the precise Delica look.
--
Valerie
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.valeriebeads.com
http://valeriebeads.etsy.com

Come join OrphanBeads, sales and trading for the financially challenged
beader!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orphanbeads
"Dr. Sooz" wrote in message
oups.com...
windy wrote:
I just found TOHO Treasure beads at wal-mart. I looked at their website
and
they say that they are same as Muyki delicas. Has anyone tried these?
They
were a lot cheaper than the bead shop delicas.

I ordered some brown seed beads from Whim beads and their were so many
beads
that were misformed and the size was not uniform. They were size 11.
Is
this a common problem when you order online? Do they use seconds? I
probably will never order from them again. And if this is the norm, I
will
not order from online again with any bead catalouge.

............Windy

````````````````````````````
Maybe I should add: I don't like Delicas, too boxy and no flow to them
for beadweaving. I like a more organic look.

I ordered some brown seed beads from Whim beads and their were so many beads
that were misformed and the size was not uniform. They were size 11. Is
this a common problem when you order online? Do they use seconds? I
probably will never order from them again. And if this is the norm, I will
not order from online again with any bead catalouge.

Hi Windy,

My name is Beki. I own Out On A Whim aka whimbeads.com
I am really sorry to hear you had an unsatisfactory experience with us.
Please let me respond to a few of your questions, then let me know
what I can do to make sure you are happy.

First, no, we do not sell seconds of any kind. We've been in business
for over 20 years now and pride ourselves on the high quality of
merchandise we offer. And we are always prepared to stand behind it as
well.
Also, please do not assume because you got some bad beads by purchasing
online that every online transaction will end the same way. Each
company online is different just as each business you pass on a street
is.

I am responding from home, so I am unable to research what your order
may have been for, so if you would be so kind as to let me know what
stock numbers you ordered so that I can go pull the beads from the
shelf and 1) check for quality, 2) discard if need be.

I would also like to refund your money for any beads you may have
received from us that are not of the quality we state we offer.

Our Japanese seed beads come from the three major manufacturers in
Japan. Miyuki, Toho and Matsuno. Please check this link I have
created for people to compare these beads as well as similar beads from
the Czech Republic and France:
http://www.whimbeads.com/seedbeads/seed-compare.html

You can see in the enlarged scans how the beads are all slightly
different in shape and size from manufacturer to manufacturer, but they
remain fairly uniform within their own category.

That being said, seed beads will never be as uniform as a cylinder
bead. The process to create them is not the same. Also, there are
certain colors that tend to run a little bit "off" in size. (this
really needs to be measured with exacting means, it's hard to see with
the naked eye). This is due to the various characteristics of the
glasses used; some glass is softer than other glass and will tend to
expand during the creation process, and also any finishes that may be
applied to the surface of the glass, such as metallic coatings
(enlarging) or matting (reducing).

You also enquired:
"I just found TOHO Treasure beads at wal-mart. I looked at their
website and
they say that they are same as Muyki delicas. Has anyone tried these?
They
were a lot cheaper than the bead shop delicas."

These two beads are made by two different companies and while there are
similarities in them, there are also some major differences.

The TOHO company produces two lines of cylinder beads. The Treasure
bead, their first generation of this shape bead, and the newly released
Aiko's (named after the owners beloved wife), which are the highest
level, most precision cut beads on the market to date.

The Miyuki company produces the Delica bead. Their only line of
cylinder beads.
This bead is the most popular on the market partly due to it being
marketed at the right time and right place, and partly because of the
large color selection, close to 1000 colors now.

In basic weaving techniques, such as Peyote and Brick stitch you should
be able to combine the three brands with success. However, in more
precision work, such as loom work, I would not recommend it. The
subtle slight variations in the beads will show along the edge of the
loomed piece.

Also, when price comparing on cylinder beads, you will also need to be
aware of the quantity the beads are being sold in. Cylinder beads come
in much smaller quantities than seed beads do and are generally offered
in small gram increments. So while you compare your LBS's price to a
big box stores price, be certain your LBS isn't offering the bead in a
much larger quantity.

In addition, while it is my political view regarding companies like
Wal-mart selling beads, I would like to suggest that you consider
supporting your local bead stores instead. First, you will not find
people at Wal-mart who can answer the important questions you may have
about the various beads, second, your LBS supports your local economy
by having your tax dollars continue to circulate in your area.

Please consider taking the time to check out a few of these links
regarding this issue:
http://www.localbeadstores.com
http://www.beadbugle.com/html/seed_b..._-_ten_re.html (Ten
Reasons to Support Your Local Bead Store)
http://forums.about.com/n/pfx/forum....ag=ab-beadwork
(a discussion on the About Beadwork forum about Small Bead Stores going
under)

I hope I was helpful in answering your questions. And I hope you will
give me the opportunity to fix any problems you may have had with your
order from us.

I realize my customer service department may have already responded to
you regarding this issue, but feel free to contact me directly.
I can be reached at 800-232-3111 or by email: beki at whimbeads.com or
dreambeadr at aol dot com

Happy Beading!
Beki
http://www.whimbeads.com

What a fabulous reply! I'm not even a beadweaver, but I read the whole
thing because it was full of so much information. Thanks, Beki... you're
a class act!

wrote:
I ordered some brown seed beads from Whim beads and their were so many beads
that were misformed and the size was not uniform. They were size 11. Is
this a common problem when you order online? Do they use seconds? I
probably will never order from them again. And if this is the norm, I will
not order from online again with any bead catalouge.

Hi Windy,

My name is Beki. I own Out On A Whim aka whimbeads.com
I am really sorry to hear you had an unsatisfactory experience with us.
Please let me respond to a few of your questions, then let me know
what I can do to make sure you are happy.

First, no, we do not sell seconds of any kind. We've been in business
for over 20 years now and pride ourselves on the high quality of
merchandise we offer. And we are always prepared to stand behind it as
well.
Also, please do not assume because you got some bad beads by purchasing
online that every online transaction will end the same way. Each
company online is different just as each business you pass on a street
is.

I am responding from home, so I am unable to research what your order
may have been for, so if you would be so kind as to let me know what
stock numbers you ordered so that I can go pull the beads from the
shelf and 1) check for quality, 2) discard if need be.

I would also like to refund your money for any beads you may have
received from us that are not of the quality we state we offer.

Our Japanese seed beads come from the three major manufacturers in
Japan. Miyuki, Toho and Matsuno. Please check this link I have
created for people to compare these beads as well as similar beads from
the Czech Republic and France:
http://www.whimbeads.com/seedbeads/seed-compare.html

You can see in the enlarged scans how the beads are all slightly
different in shape and size from manufacturer to manufacturer, but they
remain fairly uniform within their own category.

That being said, seed beads will never be as uniform as a cylinder
bead. The process to create them is not the same. Also, there are
certain colors that tend to run a little bit "off" in size. (this
really needs to be measured with exacting means, it's hard to see with
the naked eye). This is due to the various characteristics of the
glasses used; some glass is softer than other glass and will tend to
expand during the creation process, and also any finishes that may be
applied to the surface of the glass, such as metallic coatings
(enlarging) or matting (reducing).

You also enquired:
"I just found TOHO Treasure beads at wal-mart. I looked at their
website and
they say that they are same as Muyki delicas. Has anyone tried these?
They
were a lot cheaper than the bead shop delicas."

These two beads are made by two different companies and while there are
similarities in them, there are also some major differences.

The TOHO company produces two lines of cylinder beads. The Treasure
bead, their first generation of this shape bead, and the newly released
Aiko's (named after the owners beloved wife), which are the highest
level, most precision cut beads on the market to date.

The Miyuki company produces the Delica bead. Their only line of
cylinder beads.
This bead is the most popular on the market partly due to it being
marketed at the right time and right place, and partly because of the
large color selection, close to 1000 colors now.

In basic weaving techniques, such as Peyote and Brick stitch you should
be able to combine the three brands with success. However, in more
precision work, such as loom work, I would not recommend it. The
subtle slight variations in the beads will show along the edge of the
loomed piece.

Also, when price comparing on cylinder beads, you will also need to be
aware of the quantity the beads are being sold in. Cylinder beads come
in much smaller quantities than seed beads do and are generally offered
in small gram increments. So while you compare your LBS's price to a
big box stores price, be certain your LBS isn't offering the bead in a
much larger quantity.

In addition, while it is my political view regarding companies like
Wal-mart selling beads, I would like to suggest that you consider
supporting your local bead stores instead. First, you will not find
people at Wal-mart who can answer the important questions you may have
about the various beads, second, your LBS supports your local economy
by having your tax dollars continue to circulate in your area.

Please consider taking the time to check out a few of these links
regarding this issue:
http://www.localbeadstores.com
http://www.beadbugle.com/html/seed_b..._-_ten_re.html (Ten
Reasons to Support Your Local Bead Store)
http://forums.about.com/n/pfx/forum....ag=ab-beadwork
(a discussion on the About Beadwork forum about Small Bead Stores going
under)

I hope I was helpful in answering your questions. And I hope you will
give me the opportunity to fix any problems you may have had with your
order from us.

I realize my customer service department may have already responded to
you regarding this issue, but feel free to contact me directly.
I can be reached at 800-232-3111 or by email: beki at whimbeads.com or
dreambeadr at aol dot com

Happy Beading!
Beki
http://www.whimbeads.com

OMTP

I have to agree wholeheartedly w/ Kalera. What an great response, with a
lot of information. I too had to read the entire post!!!

Yep! Class act you are!

Polly


Kalera Stratton wrote:
What a fabulous reply! I'm not even a beadweaver, but I read the whole
thing because it was full of so much information. Thanks, Beki... you're
a class act!

wrote:

I ordered some brown seed beads from Whim beads and their were so
many beads
that were misformed and the size was not uniform. They were size
11. Is
this a common problem when you order online? Do they use seconds? I
probably will never order from them again. And if this is the norm,
I will
not order from online again with any bead catalouge.


Hi Windy,

My name is Beki. I own Out On A Whim aka whimbeads.com
I am really sorry to hear you had an unsatisfactory experience with us.
Please let me respond to a few of your questions, then let me know
what I can do to make sure you are happy.

First, no, we do not sell seconds of any kind. We've been in business
for over 20 years now and pride ourselves on the high quality of
merchandise we offer. And we are always prepared to stand behind it as
well.
Also, please do not assume because you got some bad beads by purchasing
online that every online transaction will end the same way. Each
company online is different just as each business you pass on a street
is.

I am responding from home, so I am unable to research what your order
may have been for, so if you would be so kind as to let me know what
stock numbers you ordered so that I can go pull the beads from the
shelf and 1) check for quality, 2) discard if need be.

I would also like to refund your money for any beads you may have
received from us that are not of the quality we state we offer.

Our Japanese seed beads come from the three major manufacturers in
Japan. Miyuki, Toho and Matsuno. Please check this link I have
created for people to compare these beads as well as similar beads from
the Czech Republic and France:
http://www.whimbeads.com/seedbeads/seed-compare.html

You can see in the enlarged scans how the beads are all slightly
different in shape and size from manufacturer to manufacturer, but they
remain fairly uniform within their own category.

That being said, seed beads will never be as uniform as a cylinder
bead. The process to create them is not the same. Also, there are
certain colors that tend to run a little bit "off" in size. (this
really needs to be measured with exacting means, it's hard to see with
the naked eye). This is due to the various characteristics of the
glasses used; some glass is softer than other glass and will tend to
expand during the creation process, and also any finishes that may be
applied to the surface of the glass, such as metallic coatings
(enlarging) or matting (reducing).

You also enquired:
"I just found TOHO Treasure beads at wal-mart. I looked at their
website and
they say that they are same as Muyki delicas. Has anyone tried these?
They
were a lot cheaper than the bead shop delicas."

These two beads are made by two different companies and while there are
similarities in them, there are also some major differences.

The TOHO company produces two lines of cylinder beads. The Treasure
bead, their first generation of this shape bead, and the newly released
Aiko's (named after the owners beloved wife), which are the highest
level, most precision cut beads on the market to date.

The Miyuki company produces the Delica bead. Their only line of
cylinder beads.
This bead is the most popular on the market partly due to it being
marketed at the right time and right place, and partly because of the
large color selection, close to 1000 colors now.

In basic weaving techniques, such as Peyote and Brick stitch you should
be able to combine the three brands with success. However, in more
precision work, such as loom work, I would not recommend it. The
subtle slight variations in the beads will show along the edge of the
loomed piece.

Also, when price comparing on cylinder beads, you will also need to be
aware of the quantity the beads are being sold in. Cylinder beads come
in much smaller quantities than seed beads do and are generally offered
in small gram increments. So while you compare your LBS's price to a
big box stores price, be certain your LBS isn't offering the bead in a
much larger quantity.

In addition, while it is my political view regarding companies like
Wal-mart selling beads, I would like to suggest that you consider
supporting your local bead stores instead. First, you will not find
people at Wal-mart who can answer the important questions you may have
about the various beads, second, your LBS supports your local economy
by having your tax dollars continue to circulate in your area.

Please consider taking the time to check out a few of these links
regarding this issue:
http://www.localbeadstores.com
http://www.beadbugle.com/html/seed_b..._-_ten_re.html (Ten
Reasons to Support Your Local Bead Store)
http://forums.about.com/n/pfx/forum....ag=ab-beadwork

(a discussion on the About Beadwork forum about Small Bead Stores going
under)

I hope I was helpful in answering your questions. And I hope you will
give me the opportunity to fix any problems you may have had with your
order from us.

I realize my customer service department may have already responded to
you regarding this issue, but feel free to contact me directly.
I can be reached at 800-232-3111 or by email: beki at whimbeads.com or
dreambeadr at aol dot com

Happy Beading!
Beki
http://www.whimbeads.com



--


Polly

--
don't spook my groove...

email - webmaster at beadfulheart dot com
yahoo id - aoncridhe

Like I said...........Whimbeads ROCKS. I buy nearly all of my seed
beads there, and I'm a Beadweaver with a capital B. I love them.
They're really there for you, and they sell great products too.

And, as Beki said, never judge all online companies by one company.
That's like saying "I'll never buy from *any* storefront again, because
I got a bad piece of fruit from one store." Huh?

````````````````````````````````
wrote:

Hi Windy,

My name is Beki. I own Out On A Whim aka whimbeads.com
I am really sorry to hear you had an unsatisfactory experience with us.
Please let me respond to a few of your questions, then let me know
what I can do to make sure you are happy.

First, no, we do not sell seconds of any kind. We've been in business
for over 20 years now and pride ourselves on the high quality of
merchandise we offer. And we are always prepared to stand behind it as
well.
Also, please do not assume because you got some bad beads by purchasing
online that every online transaction will end the same way. Each
company online is different just as each business you pass on a street
is.

I am responding from home, so I am unable to research what your order
may have been for, so if you would be so kind as to let me know what
stock numbers you ordered so that I can go pull the beads from the
shelf and 1) check for quality, 2) discard if need be.

I would also like to refund your money for any beads you may have
received from us that are not of the quality we state we offer.

Our Japanese seed beads come from the three major manufacturers in
Japan. Miyuki, Toho and Matsuno. Please check this link I have
created for people to compare these beads as well as similar beads from
the Czech Republic and France:
http://www.whimbeads.com/seedbeads/seed-compare.html

You can see in the enlarged scans how the beads are all slightly
different in shape and size from manufacturer to manufacturer, but they
remain fairly uniform within their own category.

That being said, seed beads will never be as uniform as a cylinder
bead. The process to create them is not the same. Also, there are
certain colors that tend to run a little bit "off" in size. (this
really needs to be measured with exacting means, it's hard to see with
the naked eye). This is due to the various characteristics of the
glasses used; some glass is softer than other glass and will tend to
expand during the creation process, and also any finishes that may be
applied to the surface of the glass, such as metallic coatings
(enlarging) or matting (reducing).

You also enquired:
"I just found TOHO Treasure beads at wal-mart. I looked at their
website and
they say that they are same as Muyki delicas. Has anyone tried these?
They
were a lot cheaper than the bead shop delicas."

These two beads are made by two different companies and while there are
similarities in them, there are also some major differences.

The TOHO company produces two lines of cylinder beads. The Treasure
bead, their first generation of this shape bead, and the newly released
Aiko's (named after the owners beloved wife), which are the highest
level, most precision cut beads on the market to date.

The Miyuki company produces the Delica bead. Their only line of
cylinder beads.
This bead is the most popular on the market partly due to it being
marketed at the right time and right place, and partly because of the
large color selection, close to 1000 colors now.

In basic weaving techniques, such as Peyote and Brick stitch you should
be able to combine the three brands with success. However, in more
precision work, such as loom work, I would not recommend it. The
subtle slight variations in the beads will show along the edge of the
loomed piece.

Also, when price comparing on cylinder beads, you will also need to be
aware of the quantity the beads are being sold in. Cylinder beads come
in much smaller quantities than seed beads do and are generally offered
in small gram increments. So while you compare your LBS's price to a
big box stores price, be certain your LBS isn't offering the bead in a
much larger quantity.

In addition, while it is my political view regarding companies like
Wal-mart selling beads, I would like to suggest that you consider
supporting your local bead stores instead. First, you will not find
people at Wal-mart who can answer the important questions you may have
about the various beads, second, your LBS supports your local economy
by having your tax dollars continue to circulate in your area.

Please consider taking the time to check out a few of these links
regarding this issue:
http://www.localbeadstores.com
http://www.beadbugle.com/html/seed_b..._-_ten_re.html (Ten
Reasons to Support Your Local Bead Store)
http://forums.about.com/n/pfx/forum....ag=ab-beadwork
(a discussion on the About Beadwork forum about Small Bead Stores going
under)

I hope I was helpful in answering your questions. And I hope you will
give me the opportunity to fix any problems you may have had with your
order from us.

I realize my customer service department may have already responded to
you regarding this issue, but feel free to contact me directly.
I can be reached at 800-232-3111 or by email: beki at whimbeads.com or
dreambeadr at aol dot com

Happy Beading!
Beki
http://www.whimbeads.com

I tried to email Beki but for some reason it won't go through so I will
answer here.

Hi Beki,

I really do appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions and
explain the way of the world of beads.

I don't have the order number anymore but I first wrote an email to your
website asking about brown seed beads and you were so kind to answer and
give me the numbers of the beads I wanted and I ordered them from you.

I had already figured out by the replys from my post on the newsgroup that
you are a reputable company and do not deal in seconds... I am sure the
problem lays with the manufacture and a bad batch of beads that got by them.
The problem I had is with #Tl1-F457b , which is just a japanese seed bead,
not delica or any speciality type bead. I am aware of the differences in
uniformaity of seed beads but these particular beads were way above the norm
for seed beads. It may be because they are brown beads and as you said some
colors may behave differently than others and I know the brown beads are
difficult to make (my bead lady told me that, don't know really if it is
true or not.) I would say about1/3 were unusable in my project I was making
(amulet bag which is usually done in delicas but wanted to try the seed)
for the most part, it looked like when they chopped off or cut them to size,
something pulled them and they ended up with tails, or skinny to fat, just
too distorted to use. I also do hatbands and that would of not been
diserable for that either. I don't want any money back you were kind to
suggest it....and I will try you again.

also about the TOHO.... I had an empty seed vial the same size as theirs
is. Today, I noticed that the plastic vial that the TOHO came in looked
really thick when you look through it... I emptied the ToHOs into the other
empty vial and guess what! it was 2/3s full. So I don't really think that
they are anymore cheaper than the ones at the beads store.

I also want you to know that I wrote to your website and they wrote back and
told me that it is to be expected. That if I wanted uniformity, use
delicas.... or words to that order. It was a very polite letter and I was
happy with the answer. I looked for the reply but I think I must of dumped
it.

Thank you again for your answers and I will be ordering again someday soon.
.......Windy Hedding