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silver soldering for novice
Hi there... new to the group... new to making Jewellery...
I am trying to make a silver pendant for my girlfriend's birthday and am having some success.. I have created the body of it.. and all that is needed now is to solder a hoop on for the chain to go through... I have bought a hoop from a jewellery store and some silver solder (easy) and flux (power that needs mixing with meths apparently).... but being a complete novice I have no idea of things I should be careful of when trying this... I have tried to melt the solder with a soldering iron (Duh!) which I now understand is pretty silly... and know that I need some sort of blow torch... I have access to a normal one... like a plumbers... is this acceptable ? Or will I need some specialist kind ? Please keep in mind that I only need to get this piece finished and wont need any tools again. Also.... what kind of process would be best.... would it be better to create a 'pool' of the solder and then dab the hoop onto it and let it set? Or does this kind of solder not 'pool' like ordinary solder? If not how would I make sure that the solder reached under the hoop and formed a proper joint ? I understand that I must sound a complete novice... but any help would be much appreciated. Dave |
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Regards,"Dave Wilkinson" wrote in message
... Hi there... new to the group... new to making Jewellery... I am trying to make a silver pendant for my girlfriend's birthday and am having some success.. I have created the body of it.. and all that is needed now is to solder a hoop on for the chain to go through... I have bought a hoop from a jewellery store and some silver solder (easy) and flux (power that needs mixing with meths apparently).... but being a complete novice I have no idea of things I should be careful of when trying this... I have tried to melt the solder with a soldering iron (Duh!) which I now understand is pretty silly... and know that I need some sort of blow torch... I have access to a normal one... like a plumbers... is this acceptable ? Or will I need some specialist kind ? Please keep in mind that I only need to get this piece finished and wont need any tools again. Also.... what kind of process would be best.... would it be better to create a 'pool' of the solder and then dab the hoop onto it and let it set? Or does this kind of solder not 'pool' like ordinary solder? If not how would I make sure that the solder reached under the hoop and formed a proper joint ? I understand that I must sound a complete novice... but any help would be much appreciated. Dave Hi Dave, You can use a normal plumber's torch, but be very careful not to melt the pendant as well as the solder. Here is the process... First, make sure the joint area is clean and free of grease. Next, mix up some flux - I personally use water with the powder, but meths will also work. Place a little powder in a small dish - an eggcup is fine - and add the water or meths to make a paste with the consistency of double cream. The liquid is just used to hold the flux in place - its the powder itself that's the flux, not the liquid. Cut off a small snippet of the solder - you have to judge it by eye. You need enough to make the joint - too much and you will spend time filing the excess away, too little and you will have to add more. About 2 x 2 x 0.5 mm should be about right. Using a small paint brush (as used for watercolour painting), paint some flux onto the joint area - you don't need a lot - then pick up the solder snippet with the tip of the brush and place it on the joint. The process of soldering is really very simple: the molten solder wets the joint and freezes when the heat is removed. The trouble is, if the molten solder doesn't wet the joint, there is no joining. Like water, the molten solder will not wet the joint if there is any dirt or grease present - worse still, the very process of heating the joint causes the oxygen in the air to oxidise the joint, and its the oxide that prevents the solder from wetting. The molten flux (the powder actually melts when heated) acts as a barrier to prevent the oxygen from getting to the bare metal - it also does a fair job of removing any oxide that might already be present, but its best to make sure its nice and clean from the start and not to rely on this. The molten solder will stop flowing as soon as it reaches metal cooler than its melting point - so its very important to heat the joint. If the joint is not hot enough to melt the solder the joint will be useless. Light the torch and carefully heat the joint area until the solder melts and flows into the joint. This can be tricky 'cos the flux tends to bubble up at first (like a white foam) and dislodges the solder. Heat it slowly at first and if the flux foams, remove the flame till it stops and then continue. After a while the foaming stops and the flux turns transparent, now is the time to bring the joint up to temperature. Don't take too long 'cos the hot flux only retains its properties for a minute or two - if it turns a dirty black/brown you will have to start over. Try not the heat the solder directly - if you do it will melt into a ball and just sit there. When the joint area is hot enough, the solder will melt and flow into the joint. When this happens, remove the heat immediately and let the job cool down. Remember, too much heat will melt the job, so its best to practise first. Once you have made your joint you will probably be appalled at the appearance of the pendant - it will look very dirty because of the oxide that has formed. You must pop the job into a pickle bath to remove the oxide and solidified flux. I normally use a 10% H2SO4 solution, but you can also use citric acid, or even vinegar. Just place the job in the pickle until the oxide is removed. This takes around a minute or two for cold H2SO4, but maybe 30-60 mins for vinegar. Take it out of the pickle with copper or plastic tweezers (don't use steel else you might coat the job with copper), wash in clean water, and if there is still some oxide, try rubbing it off with your fingers. If its still there, pop it back in the pickle. When there is no trace of oxide or flux left, you can then polish the job to finish it. If you don't have a polishing mop you will have to use metal polish and elbow grease. I hope this helps. -- Gary Wooding |
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"Wooding" wrote in message ... Regards,"Dave Wilkinson" wrote in message ... Hi there... new to the group... new to making Jewellery... I am trying to make a silver pendant for my girlfriend's birthday and am having some success.. I have created the body of it.. and all that is needed now is to solder a hoop on for the chain to go through... I have bought a hoop from a jewellery store and some silver solder (easy) and flux (power that needs mixing with meths apparently).... but being a complete novice I have no idea of things I should be careful of when trying this... I have tried to melt the solder with a soldering iron (Duh!) which I now understand is pretty silly... and know that I need some sort of blow torch... I have access to a normal one... like a plumbers... is this acceptable ? Or will I need some specialist kind ? Please keep in mind that I only need to get this piece finished and wont need any tools again. Also.... what kind of process would be best.... would it be better to create a 'pool' of the solder and then dab the hoop onto it and let it set? Or does this kind of solder not 'pool' like ordinary solder? If not how would I make sure that the solder reached under the hoop and formed a proper joint ? I understand that I must sound a complete novice... but any help would be much appreciated. Dave Hi Dave, You can use a normal plumber's torch, but be very careful not to melt the pendant as well as the solder. Here is the process... First, make sure the joint area is clean and free of grease. Next, mix up some flux - I personally use water with the powder, but meths will also work. Place a little powder in a small dish - an eggcup is fine - and add the water or meths to make a paste with the consistency of double cream. The liquid is just used to hold the flux in place - its the powder itself that's the flux, not the liquid. Cut off a small snippet of the solder - you have to judge it by eye. You need enough to make the joint - too much and you will spend time filing the excess away, too little and you will have to add more. About 2 x 2 x 0.5 mm should be about right. Using a small paint brush (as used for watercolour painting), paint some flux onto the joint area - you don't need a lot - then pick up the solder snippet with the tip of the brush and place it on the joint. The process of soldering is really very simple: the molten solder wets the joint and freezes when the heat is removed. The trouble is, if the molten solder doesn't wet the joint, there is no joining. Like water, the molten solder will not wet the joint if there is any dirt or grease present - worse still, the very process of heating the joint causes the oxygen in the air to oxidise the joint, and its the oxide that prevents the solder from wetting. The molten flux (the powder actually melts when heated) acts as a barrier to prevent the oxygen from getting to the bare metal - it also does a fair job of removing any oxide that might already be present, but its best to make sure its nice and clean from the start and not to rely on this. The molten solder will stop flowing as soon as it reaches metal cooler than its melting point - so its very important to heat the joint. If the joint is not hot enough to melt the solder the joint will be useless. Light the torch and carefully heat the joint area until the solder melts and flows into the joint. This can be tricky 'cos the flux tends to bubble up at first (like a white foam) and dislodges the solder. Heat it slowly at first and if the flux foams, remove the flame till it stops and then continue. After a while the foaming stops and the flux turns transparent, now is the time to bring the joint up to temperature. Don't take too long 'cos the hot flux only retains its properties for a minute or two - if it turns a dirty black/brown you will have to start over. Try not the heat the solder directly - if you do it will melt into a ball and just sit there. When the joint area is hot enough, the solder will melt and flow into the joint. When this happens, remove the heat immediately and let the job cool down. Remember, too much heat will melt the job, so its best to practise first. Once you have made your joint you will probably be appalled at the appearance of the pendant - it will look very dirty because of the oxide that has formed. You must pop the job into a pickle bath to remove the oxide and solidified flux. I normally use a 10% H2SO4 solution, but you can also use citric acid, or even vinegar. Just place the job in the pickle until the oxide is removed. This takes around a minute or two for cold H2SO4, but maybe 30-60 mins for vinegar. Take it out of the pickle with copper or plastic tweezers (don't use steel else you might coat the job with copper), wash in clean water, and if there is still some oxide, try rubbing it off with your fingers. If its still there, pop it back in the pickle. When there is no trace of oxide or flux left, you can then polish the job to finish it. If you don't have a polishing mop you will have to use metal polish and elbow grease. I hope this helps. -- Gary Wooding Thanks Gary I have already had a go at this... and had complete success ! I ended up buying a small butane blow lamp... the kind you use for cooking I think.... it worked really well....The join seems to be really strong.... I did try a test run on another piece.... they both turned out great so now I have two... I did have some trouble with the flux... I put a little on but it just seemed to dry out and go powdery... in the end I just rubbed a little on to clean the joint..... I am sure I didn't use it right.... but the solder seemed to melt great and run into the joint anyway... maybe it was luck rather than anything else.... I didn't use a bath to clean it.... just lots of emery paper and t-cut actually! Worked great... but next time I think I will try that.... might save me some time. Thanks for the help anyway... I think I have the bug now and I am going to try making a ring with the left over silver I have. Dave |
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"Dave Wilkinson" wrote in message
... I did have some trouble with the flux... I put a little on but it just seemed to dry out and go powdery... in the end I just rubbed a little on to clean the joint..... I am sure I didn't use it right.... but the solder seemed to melt great and run into the joint anyway... maybe it was luck rather than anything else.... I didn't use a bath to clean it.... just lots of emery paper and t-cut actually! Worked great... but next time I think I will try that.... might save me some time. I'm glad it worked. As you discovered, it doesn't matter that the flux seemed to dry out; as mentioned before, the job of the liquid is just to keep the flux where you want it - the heat from the flame drives the liquid off long before the flux powder melts. When hard soldering big items (not jewellery bits) its common to use a rod of solder instead of a little snippet. The tip of the rod is heated a little and dipped into the flux powder which melts onto the rod. As the flame is played on the joint, the tip of the solder rod (with the molten flux) is stroked onto the joint and some of the flux is left. As the joint is brought up to temperature, the rod is periodically stroked onto the joint (which heats the tip of coarse) and then dipped into the flux again. The rod is then doing two jobs - it is testing the joint for temperature ('cos the solder melts as soon as the joint is hot enough) and it is a handy way to get the flux powder into the right spot. Its impractical to use this technique for jewellery 'cos the pieces are too lightweight to be stroked. The pickle bath saves a great deal of work, and even works in crevices where emery paper cannot reach. You can even get a non-acid pickle if you don't like the idea of using acid - I've never used it myself, but I have used vinegar in an emergency. Welcome to the land of jewellery making. -- Regards, Gary Wooding |
#5
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In article ,
Wooding wrote: ... When hard soldering big items (not jewellery bits) its common to use a rod of solder instead of a little snippet. The tip of the rod is heated a little and dipped into the flux powder which melts onto the rod. As the flame is played on the joint, the tip of the solder rod (with the molten flux) is stroked onto the joint and some of the flux is left. As the joint is brought up to temperature, the rod is periodically stroked onto the joint (which heats the tip of coarse) and then dipped into the flux again. The rod is then doing two jobs - it is testing the joint for temperature ('cos the solder melts as soon as the joint is hot enough) and it is a handy way to get the flux powder into the right spot. This is a good description of stick soldering, thanks Gary. It's what I do quite a bit for some of my jewellery jobs. Its impractical to use this technique for jewellery 'cos the pieces are too lightweight to be stroked. Not entirely; some small pieces of jewellery you can hold down with a clamp or lead-filled weight. Brian -- B r i a n A d a m e y e g l a s s e s j e w e l l e r y Auckland NEW ZEALAND www.adam.co.nz |
#6
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"Wooding" wrote in message ... "Dave Wilkinson" wrote in message ... I did have some trouble with the flux... I put a little on but it just seemed to dry out and go powdery... in the end I just rubbed a little on to clean the joint..... I am sure I didn't use it right.... but the solder seemed to melt great and run into the joint anyway... maybe it was luck rather than anything else.... I didn't use a bath to clean it.... just lots of emery paper and t-cut actually! Worked great... but next time I think I will try that.... might save me some time. I'm glad it worked. As you discovered, it doesn't matter that the flux seemed to dry out; as mentioned before, the job of the liquid is just to keep the flux where you want it - the heat from the flame drives the liquid off long before the flux powder melts. When hard soldering big items (not jewellery bits) its common to use a rod of solder instead of a little snippet. The tip of the rod is heated a little and dipped into the flux powder which melts onto the rod. As the flame is played on the joint, the tip of the solder rod (with the molten flux) is stroked onto the joint and some of the flux is left. As the joint is brought up to temperature, the rod is periodically stroked onto the joint (which heats the tip of coarse) and then dipped into the flux again. The rod is then doing two jobs - it is testing the joint for temperature ('cos the solder melts as soon as the joint is hot enough) and it is a handy way to get the flux powder into the right spot. Its impractical to use this technique for jewellery 'cos the pieces are too lightweight to be stroked. The pickle bath saves a great deal of work, and even works in crevices where emery paper cannot reach. You can even get a non-acid pickle if you don't like the idea of using acid - I've never used it myself, but I have used vinegar in an emergency. Welcome to the land of jewellery making. -- Regards, Gary Wooding Yeah thats a great help... thanks again. I really think its just a case of practice now and I will find out the way things work best as I go. I have made a couple of rings now.... both worked out good. One thing though.... my finger turned slightly green! I'm sure that the metal is silver and I did get proper silver solder... maybe its the flux... or something... perhaps I didn't clean it as good as I should have... I did use the vinegar dip though... any ideas ? Next project I think is to make another ring... and perhaps set some sort of stone in it ? I'm not talking delicate claw work... just something big and solid would be good. Again I have no idea how to do this ( Anyone point me at some websites that might help ?) I'm really quite enjoying this now! Thanks again... Dave |
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On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 23:14:32 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry "Dave Wilkinson"
wrote: Next project I think is to make another ring... and perhaps set some sort of stone in it ? I'm not talking delicate claw work... just something big and solid would be good. Again I have no idea how to do this ( Anyone point me at some websites that might help ?) Since it seems you're now finding this enjoyable, might I suggest that it's now high time to find either a public library or the local bookstore, or an online bookstore (there are several, beginning with Amazon.com, and including the GIA bookstore at www.gia.edu, among others, that will be happy to supply any of quite a number of highly useful books on the subject of jewelery making. The perhaps 20 bucks you might spend will save you many, many, hours of frustration, ignite lots of great ideas in your head, and show you possibilities you might not have dreamed of exploring. Trust me on this one. While this forum and it's readers and participants, myself included, as well as our main competition, the Orchid mail list (found at Ganoksin.com) offer a wealth of folks with lots of experience eager to help, you'll find we're perhaps most useful when you have specific questions and problems. Starting with a book as a good background, you'll be lightyears ahead in terms of knowing what to ask, and where to start. Titles I'd suggest as possible starting points are Tim McCreights "complete metalsmith", Murrey Bovin's "jewelery making", books by Silvia Wicks or Jinks McGrath, or if you can still find a copy, Phillip Morton's "Contemporary Jewelry" is very excellent. And these are just the first few (and with reasonable costs) that jump to mind. There are many dozens more. Trust me on this one. You won't regret it. (And if you DO find you regret it, you can always resell the book here on the newsgroup, so long as it's not an ad for an ebay auction...) Peter |
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"Peter W. Rowe" wrote in message ... On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 23:14:32 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry "Dave Wilkinson" wrote: Next project I think is to make another ring... and perhaps set some sort of stone in it ? I'm not talking delicate claw work... just something big and solid would be good. Again I have no idea how to do this ( Anyone point me at some websites that might help ?) Since it seems you're now finding this enjoyable, might I suggest that it's now high time to find either a public library or the local bookstore, or an online bookstore (there are several, beginning with Amazon.com, and including the GIA bookstore at www.gia.edu, among others, that will be happy to supply any of quite a number of highly useful books on the subject of jewelery making. The perhaps 20 bucks you might spend will save you many, many, hours of frustration, ignite lots of great ideas in your head, and show you possibilities you might not have dreamed of exploring. Trust me on this one. While this forum and it's readers and participants, myself included, as well as our main competition, the Orchid mail list (found at Ganoksin.com) offer a wealth of folks with lots of experience eager to help, you'll find we're perhaps most useful when you have specific questions and problems. Starting with a book as a good background, you'll be lightyears ahead in terms of knowing what to ask, and where to start. Titles I'd suggest as possible starting points are Tim McCreights "complete metalsmith", Murrey Bovin's "jewelery making", books by Silvia Wicks or Jinks McGrath, or if you can still find a copy, Phillip Morton's "Contemporary Jewelry" is very excellent. And these are just the first few (and with reasonable costs) that jump to mind. There are many dozens more. Trust me on this one. You won't regret it. (And if you DO find you regret it, you can always resell the book here on the newsgroup, so long as it's not an ad for an ebay auction...) Peter Yeah I agree.... I think thats the way forward.... I did look at some books while I was trying to make the piece for my girlfriend but they didn't really help ( Think they were just not up to scratch ) I'll check out the books from your list though.... sounds like the right place to start. Thanks man Dave |
#9
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Titles I'd suggest as possible starting points are Tim McCreights "complete
metalsmith" This is an excellent choice by the way. It will give you ideas and methods that will last a beginner a good long time. I still refer to it on occassion. |
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