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#1
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diamond ring
I need to sell my diamond ring( with certificate) original price was 1000$,
never wore this ring Any advice where to sell it and how? I dont want to sell it for 20$ thats obvious M Seattle |
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I think the $500-750 range on eBay is awfully high. Retail prices can be
horribly inflated....especially compared to eBay! Of course it's all probably going to come down to the size and quality of the stone. Now unless she got some kind of incredibly good deal on that ring (which I doubt...most people don't really know how to shop for jewellery), she'd be lucky to get $250 for it on eBay, IMHO. "KG" wrote in message ... "Misia" wrote in message ... I need to sell my diamond ring( with certificate) original price was 1000$, never wore this ring Any advice where to sell it and how? I dont want to sell it for 20$ thats obvious M Seattle Misia, Ebay would probably be a good option if you want to take the time for it. Otherwise, you could try an estate jewelry buyer in your area. In either case, it's very unlikely you will get the price you paid for it, but you can try. You will likely end up getting in the 500 -750 range, if you're lucky and if the cert is an excellent one (GIA, for example) rather than a "store cert" (which is pretty worthless on the larger market). Good luck, KG |
#3
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"KG" wrote in message ... "Misia" wrote in message ... I need to sell my diamond ring( with certificate) original price was 1000$, never wore this ring Any advice where to sell it and how? I dont want to sell it for 20$ thats obvious M Seattle Misia, Ebay would probably be a good option if you want to take the time for it. Otherwise, you could try an estate jewelry buyer in your area. In either case, it's very unlikely you will get the price you paid for it, but you can try. You will likely end up getting in the 500 -750 range, if you're lucky and if the cert is an excellent one (GIA, for example) rather than a "store cert" (which is pretty worthless on the larger market). Good luck, KG "GhostMouse" wrote in message ... I think the $500-750 range on eBay is awfully high. Retail prices can be horribly inflated....especially compared to eBay! Of course it's all probably going to come down to the size and quality of the stone. Now unless she got some kind of incredibly good deal on that ring (which I doubt...most people don't really know how to shop for jewellery), she'd be lucky to get $250 for it on eBay, IMHO. You're right that she may end up with $250.... as I said "IF you're lucky AND if the certification is an excellent one -- not a store certification." I've seen prices on eBay strongly influenced by the presence of a GIA cert. With patience and luck, if she's got a GIA cert, she may get 1/2 of her retail price. But she's likely to get a lot less. KG |
#4
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"KG" wrote in message ... "KG" wrote in message ... "Misia" wrote in message ... I need to sell my diamond ring( with certificate) original price was 1000$, never wore this ring Any advice where to sell it and how? I dont want to sell it for 20$ thats obvious M Seattle Misia, Ebay would probably be a good option if you want to take the time for it. Otherwise, you could try an estate jewelry buyer in your area. In either case, it's very unlikely you will get the price you paid for it, but you can try. You will likely end up getting in the 500 -750 range, if you're lucky and if the cert is an excellent one (GIA, for example) rather than a "store cert" (which is pretty worthless on the larger market). Good luck, KG "GhostMouse" wrote in message ... I think the $500-750 range on eBay is awfully high. Retail prices can be horribly inflated....especially compared to eBay! Of course it's all probably going to come down to the size and quality of the stone. Now unless she got some kind of incredibly good deal on that ring (which I doubt...most people don't really know how to shop for jewellery), she'd be lucky to get $250 for it on eBay, IMHO. You're right that she may end up with $250.... as I said "IF you're lucky AND if the certification is an excellent one -- not a store certification." I've seen prices on eBay strongly influenced by the presence of a GIA cert. With patience and luck, if she's got a GIA cert, she may get 1/2 of her retail price. But she's likely to get a lot less. KG I find it distressing that in all likelihood, there is no GIA certificate. When shopping for cars, people go to great lengths to learn about them first, or they take someone with them who is knowledgable...but when they are going to purchase jewellery, most go in unfamiliar with what's out there and emotion often influences their decision. They see a store "certificate" that is, as you've pointed out, pretty worthless, and mistake it for a real appraisal/GIA certificate, or believe it is an indication of the true value of the piece, and end up spending large amounts of money--four figures and up--on something that they can't turn around and sell the next day for more than 25% of the price they paid! Actually, if you don't mind me going a bit OT, there are many jewellers out there who BANK on their customers' ignorance! There is this (and I use the term lightly) jewellery store in my area that advertises how they give credit to anyone and that they are so great for rebuilding bad credit. This place sells cheap, poor quality jewellery and marks it up high. Some poor sap comes in wanting to buy his girlfriend a pair of earrings and sees a pair of 1/4 ct. diamond studs for $300, and doesn't know the difference between a good and bad diamond at all. The store requires a 25% down payment ($75) and finances the rest, and their advertising claims they are such great humanitarians for doing this. This guy thinks he's found such a wonderful store to extend him credit when he's new on the job or has a bad credit rating, when in fact the price of his down payment alone would have bought him a pair of 1/4 ct. diamond studs if he'd just shopped around some, so the store has already got the earrings paid for and the money they are financing is just pure profit--profit with 18-22% APR! This poor sap is now in debt $225 for no reason other than the fact that he's looking to rebuild his credit, and doesn't know anything about the merchandise he's bought, so he can't TELL if he's been had! He hangs onto that store certificate with pride, believing he has bought something valuable for his beloved and that certificate will mean something at some point in time. And if Misia's ring was purchased from one of those kinds of places, that $1000 means even less. If that was the case, chances are Misia will be lucky to get $75-$100 for the ring! This type of jewellery store THRIVES due to the fact that they are banking (pun intended) on the ignorance and emotions of their customers. They prey on mostly low income people, selling them incredibly poor quality merchandise for grossly inflated prices, and deliberately get them into needless debt, all for the 'priviledge' of letting them build their credit! They are paying out JUST to get a good credit rating and really don't even have a decent piece of jewellery to show for the money they spent! Their down payment most likely covered the cost of the jewellery, so they aren't "financing" anything! Those stores' real profits aren't from jewellery sales; they are from all the high interest credit contracts they get people into! That type of business does well and as a result, there are a lot of people out there believing they have $1000 rings and $300 earrings, when in fact they have $100 rings and $75 earrings, and they end up believing that all jewellers are like used car salesmen and can't be trusted. I'd love to see those kinds of stores shut down, but instead, they are growing like weeds! One chain of these stores in my area was just taken over from the annoying owner who did cheesy commercials, and the group that bought it out is now planning national expansion! What a shame... Sorry about the rant... |
#5
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Dont be sorry about the rant!!,
One of the best pieces on this newsgroup for some time. The stores you describe are sailing far too close to the wind, this is a dangerous thing to do, because they might be able to cheat most of the people most of the time , but one day someone who doesnt take to being stitched up will realise they have been taken for a ride and will take the appropriate retribution and be clever enough to get away with it. Like for example fire bombing the store or worse still dealing with the cheat in whatever way he deserves. |
#6
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"KG" wrote in message ... "GhostMouse" wrote in message ... "KG" wrote in message ... "KG" wrote in message ... "Misia" wrote in message ... I need to sell my diamond ring( with certificate) original price was 1000$, never wore this ring Any advice where to sell it and how? I dont want to sell it for 20$ thats obvious M Seattle Misia, Ebay would probably be a good option if you want to take the time for it. Otherwise, you could try an estate jewelry buyer in your area. In either case, it's very unlikely you will get the price you paid for it, but you can try. You will likely end up getting in the 500 -750 range, if you're lucky and if the cert is an excellent one (GIA, for example) rather than a "store cert" (which is pretty worthless on the larger market). Good luck, KG "GhostMouse" wrote in message ... I think the $500-750 range on eBay is awfully high. Retail prices can be horribly inflated....especially compared to eBay! Of course it's all probably going to come down to the size and quality of the stone. Now unless she got some kind of incredibly good deal on that ring (which I doubt...most people don't really know how to shop for jewellery), she'd be lucky to get $250 for it on eBay, IMHO. You're right that she may end up with $250.... as I said "IF you're lucky AND if the certification is an excellent one -- not a store certification." I've seen prices on eBay strongly influenced by the presence of a GIA cert. With patience and luck, if she's got a GIA cert, she may get 1/2 of her retail price. But she's likely to get a lot less. KG I find it distressing that in all likelihood, there is no GIA certificate. When shopping for cars, people go to great lengths to learn about them first, or they take someone with them who is knowledgable...but when they are going to purchase jewellery, most go in unfamiliar with what's out there and emotion often influences their decision. They see a store "certificate" that is, as you've pointed out, pretty worthless, and mistake it for a real appraisal/GIA certificate, or believe it is an indication of the true value of the piece, and end up spending large amounts of money--four figures and up--on something that they can't turn around and sell the next day for more than 25% of the price they paid! Actually, if you don't mind me going a bit OT, there are many jewellers out there who BANK on their customers' ignorance! rant about unethical jewelers snipped for brevity That type of business does well and as a result, there are a lot of people out there believing they have $1000 rings and $300 earrings, when in fact they have $100 rings and $75 earrings, and they end up believing that all jewellers are like used car salesmen and can't be trusted. I couldn't be more violently in agreement with you, and there is one more piece to that puzzle... the "appraisal." It's bad enough that these stores sell shoddy merchandise through deceptive selling practices to customers who SHOULD do their homework, but then they add insult to injury by providing or recommending an "insurance appraisal." That appraisal is almost always based on the RETAIL price paid for the item, no matter how inflated the price was. A true insurance appraisal should be based -- as should any insurance of the piece -- on the REPLACEMENT value of the piece. I hadn't even thought of that. Good point. Say a customer loses a ring valued at $1000 retail. It's likely that the insurance company will be working with a wholesale jeweler to replace the ring, which means they will get the replacement for somewhere in the neighborhood of $250 - 380, depending on the original markup policies of the selling jeweler. However, the owner of the ring has been paying premiums for 10 years based on the insurer having to spend $1000 to replace the ring. SO.... the insurer has nicely made an even bigger profit of of the customer. Hardly seems fair, but when it comes to making a profit, most places are shameless about their practices. In the interest of full disclosure here, I am a jeweler, specializing in unique fine jewelry, much of which is hand-crafted. I work out of my own studio and do a lot of "shop at home" work with my customers -- we sit down and discuss what they want and what their design tastes are, and browse through catalogs of mountings and designs to decide on the best combination. One thing I pride myself on is helping my clients EDUCATE themselves about their choices. We discuss the pros/cons of various karats of gold and look at real examples, wherever possible, of the differences in color/clarity of diamonds and colored stones. By the time they choose, they make an informed choice within their budget, and I like to think they have developed a degree of trust in me. As a result, they aren't hesitant to come back to me and to recommend others. AND, I can offer this type of service at a significant discount to the mall store prices.... which tells you a LOT about just how inflated those prices are. Believe me, I KNOW how inflated they are. I am not a jeweller, just a very informed customer. I just happen to be that way about everything I put good money into, and it did help that I used to date a jeweller/appraiser for awhile. As a huge consumer of jewellery, I paid attention to the instruction I got, and even though we don't date anymore, we have remained in touch even though he's still in Canada and I'm now in America. Thank goodness for email! Consumers do want to be educated to a degree so that they can feel comfortable that they're not being ripped off. Unfortunately, the environment of many jewelry stores is designed to dazzle and intimidate and the "patter" of the salespeople is designed to make the customer feel even more intimidated by their own lack of knowledge. I like to think I provide a service as well as a product by my approach to consultation and sales. I wish more jewellers would do what you do, and what my friend does--EDUCATE rather than try to dazzle. Their way may work for the immediate sale, but the long term sales can't be good the way they do it! Like most things these days, it's just NOW, NOW, NOW and never think ahead. The jewellers of old really did work hard to cultivate a client. These days it's just a matter of enough flash and dazzle to get their money and hell with 'em once they've gone out the door with their overpriced purchase in hand. It's good to know not all jewellers have fallen into that pit! What area do you practice in, KG? Ghose Mouse KG |
#7
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On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 18:30:34 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry "KG"
wrote: I couldn't be more violently in agreement with you, and there is one more piece to that puzzle... the "appraisal." It's bad enough that these stores sell shoddy merchandise through deceptive selling practices to customers who SHOULD do their homework, but then they add insult to injury by providing or recommending an "insurance appraisal." That appraisal is almost always based on the RETAIL price paid for the item, no matter how inflated the price was. A true insurance appraisal should be based -- as should any insurance of the piece -- on the REPLACEMENT value of the piece. Say a customer loses a ring valued at $1000 retail. It's likely that the insurance company will be working with a wholesale jeweler to replace the ring, which means they will get the replacement for somewhere in the neighborhood of $250 - 380, depending on the original markup policies of the selling jeweler. However, the owner of the ring has been paying premiums for 10 years based on the insurer having to spend $1000 to replace the ring. SO.... the insurer has nicely made an even bigger profit of of the customer. Well, I've kinda got to jump in on this one. While it's certainly true that there are many times where shoddy stores are using "in store' appraisals to defend their prices, not all of them are quite as bad as represented here. The impression, given above, that "replacement" value is what an appraisal should state, and that this should reflect only the wholesale cost to the insurance company, is generally NOT correct. An apprasal can properly state almost any market level the appraiser wishes to state, so long as it's clearly stated on the appraisal just what that market level is, and what the intended purpose of the appraisal is, and so long as the stated purpose of the appraisal is indeed appropriate to the chosen market level. Many of the store appraisals I've seen amount to little more than a detailed reciept, stating the normal retail price of the item AT THAT STORE. This is not a proper and true appraisal, per se, but it does offer at least the written statement from the store of what their price is, and hopefully, some written documentation as to what they state the quality of the merchandise is. This, at least, is better than nothing. It's ethical, so long as the customer understands that this in no way attempts to represent the overall market value of the piece, but only what the thing costs at that store, regardless of what a competitor might charge. In some cases, this may be a usable price for insurance, in the case of a unique item, perhaps copyrighted by the seller, for use in an insurance policy that provides for exact replacement, rather than the more usual policy that would insure for the market value. In this case, since the only exact replacement of a copyrighted original piece would have to come from the original source, then perhaps this value would be acceptable. Note, this is not normally the case, but it IS possible. Far more commonly, as the poster states, an appraisal should be for insurance replacement purposes, and will need to reflect the market value. Often this is stated as "replacement value". This is NOT the wholesale value. It is NOT what an insurance company might be able to contract with a jeweler to pay. It must reflect the wider, real market value. The original item was purchased by the consumer, not the insurance company, and the replacement value is the average expected price that the retail buyer, either the original consumer or another typical buyer in the same geographical area, could reasonably expect to pay for another similar item. It should take into account the most likely marketplace for the item, which normally will be retail stores. It may not be the most expensive stores around, nor the cheapest, unless the appraiser can reasonably show that the most likely place the average consumer would purchase such an item would indeed be the most expensive, or the cheapest, possible sources. The reason this is important is simply that most insurance companies do NOT go about actually buying the consumer another item when one is lost. They simply write a check. That check needs to be enough to let a prudent buyer replace the item. Thus the need to determine a true, most likely, retail replacement cost. In most of the cases I've seen where the insurance company was working with a jeweler to buy an item, it's not a complete piece being purchased, but rather things like replacing a stone lost from a ring, where the ring is still in hand. Also not all polices offer actual replacement values of lost items. Such polices cost a bit more. The most common policies don't insure for replacement values, but rather, for the actual market value of the item. This will take into account the age and condition of the actual item that was lost, with depreciation if any, and the like. So a proper appraisal must then find not the retail replacement value, but the market value. For some appraisals, such as estate appraisals (used for taxes, and needing to conform to IRS guidelines), the fair market value has little to do with the retail replacement cost, but rather reflects the most likely price paid for the actual item, if sold. That means a "used" price, in whatever can be shown as the most likely place such an item would be sold. Needless to say, determining this type of value is a good deal more complex than the usual jewelery store insurance appraisal. Finally, in this whole thread, there's been this thrashing of certain classes of jewelry stores over the implied obscenely high markups. While I certainly don't argue that there are stores charging much too much, I'd also point out that the average store is not making as much profit, overall, as these markups may imply. Few are hauling in the cash in quite the way this thread has suggested. Shopping malls are costly places to do business. The rent is usually on a pricey per square foot basis, with often a significant added percentage of the overall gross proceeds going to the mall. Add to this the fact that jewelery stores are not like grocery stores with folks lined up at the registers. It's not uncommon for a store to have only a few sales per day. This then needs to generate enough profit to pay all the sales people and other workers in the store, it has to pay the often hefty other business costs, such as insurance, security, heat and light, and the like, perhaps make the payments on original store consutruction loans, and then to top it all off, it's got to generate enough profit that, when expressed as a percentage of the overall inventory owned by the store, the profit is enough that the owner is still better off owning this inventory, instead of just leaving it all in cash in the bank, without the cost of doing business. People who look only at the markup percentages are fooling themselves. Many mall stores may charge markups of three or more times the wholesale costs of the merchandise, yet in the end may be operating at an overall net profit margin of only a few percent per year, especially in today's economy. We talk about high markups only because the markup only knows the original purchase price of the jewelry. It forgets, totally, about all the other costs of obtaining the jewelry, and offering it for sale. It's not uncommon for a retail jewelry store to have several million dollars in inventory. Just how much profit does a store have to make before this is better than one can do in bank certificates of deposit? You do the math. It's against that background, one where frankly, it's easier to go out of business than it is to remain profitable, that there are certainly temptations for some businesses to cut corners and cheat. It's sad when some do. Yet I'd venture to say that the majority of jewelers and jewelry stores, even the chains, are still playing fair, and by at least most of the rules. It's true that some of the sales people in the chain stores are undereducated, and may not always properly represent the full truth of their merchandise. That's sad too. But even they are usually trying to at least be reasonably honest, so far as they know how to. From what i've seen, most of the folks in this business are NOT out to rip anyone off or cheat anyone. There are exceptions, of course, and perhaps more than just a few. But still, the majority of those in the business mean well and try to do the right things. With that said, it's also doubtless that there is a very wide range of costs one can pay for a given piece of jewelry if one takes the time to look. An educated consumer is much better able to judge for themselves whether a price is a good one or not, or whether a given stores price, even if a little higher, may be justified by increased levels of service or other benefits over going to the cheapest sources. There's power in knowledge, and consumers who do their homework and understand what they're buying, whether jewelry or any other item to be purchased, will get more for their money. And, in addition to the widely visible large chain stores in malls, there are a lot of smaller, less visible stores and business, from "mom and pop" stores on the street, to artists working from little hole in the wall offices somewhere or even from their homes, who are all able and eager to try to compete with the big stores. With often lower operating costs, they can offer lower prices. And often, with better trained people as well, to offer higher levels of service and expertise. But it takes a little more effort to find this type of jeweler. That's what keeps the mall stores in business. Some folks are too lazy, or have too little time, to be able to make that effort. Try, you non-jewelers in this group, as well as some of you jewelers, not to get too cynical about all jewelers, While there are certainly some out there well deserving of your scorn, I still think it's fair to say that most, even the high priced ones, are not the cheats and imcompetent scoundrels some posts in this thread seem to imply. Peter Rowe |
#8
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"Peter W. Rowe" wrote in message ... On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 18:30:34 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry "KG" wrote: I couldn't be more violently in agreement with you, and there is one more piece to that puzzle... the "appraisal." (snip) Well, I've kinda got to jump in on this one. While it's certainly true that there are many times where shoddy stores ......(most of the quoted text, snipped by moderator for readability...) high priced ones, are not the cheats and imcompetent scoundrels some posts in this thread seem to imply. In no way was I trying to imply that even high priced (read: mall jewellery stores) stores are cheats. I specifically was targeting those stores that offer credit to anyone, even those who ordinarily wouldn't get an account with a Zales or DeVons, or a place like that. Those places aren't really jewellers, IMNSHO. It is nothing but a scam, pure and simple, and it IS one that is growing! And I do believe that they give real jewellery stores a bad name. For the record, no, I won't really do much, if any business with mall jewellery stores. I've found that I can virtually always get better deals elsewhere. I wouldn't tell anyone NOT to go to one of them, because at least their jewellery is of some decent quality, albeit overpriced, but they would never be my choice! I also see no point in trashing them. They are at least basically honest, just expensive. That's not a crime. I will, however, go on long and loud about visiting those annoying "we'll give credit to anyone" jewellers, because they really aren't in the jewellery business! Those are con artists in suits, and nothing more, and their targets are nearly always those who can afford to get ripped off the least--the low income people of the world. Ghost Mouse |
#9
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"ted.frater" wrote in message ... Dont be sorry about the rant!!, One of the best pieces on this newsgroup for some time. The stores you describe are sailing far too close to the wind, this is a dangerous thing to do, because they might be able to cheat most of the people most of the time , but one day someone who doesnt take to being stitched up will realise they have been taken for a ride and will take the appropriate retribution and be clever enough to get away with it. Like for example fire bombing the store or worse still dealing with the cheat in whatever way he deserves. Yikes, I'd hate to think anyone would go that far because they got overcharged! While I don't think ANY retailer should bank on their customer's ignorance, I also don't think they would deserve to get firebombed or worse over doing it! After all, any customer who knowingly walks into a store to purchase something expensive and hasn't bothered to read up a little or bring someone knowledgable may not be asking for problems, but in this day and age they have to be aware that there is always someone looking to take advantage of someone who hasn't done their homework! It's a sad, but true fact of life in the 21st century, and firebombing is NOT the solution, don't you think? |
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