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#41
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But, why should you be more supicious of
*all* Muslim charities than of Christian or Jewish charities? Because Christians and Jews are not blowing innocent people up on a daily basis. Christians and Jews are not setting up terroist camps. Anyone who is *not* more suspicious of Muslim activities is naive. Cheri (Bubbee to Emily and Nathan) It's my life And it's now or never I ain't gonna live forever I just want to live while I'm alive - Bon Jovi |
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#42
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~~~~ But, why should you be more supicious of
*all* Muslim charities than of Christian or Jewish charities? Because Christians and Jews are not blowing innocent people up on a daily basis.~~~~ Whoa -- tell that to the people of Oklahoma City. |
#43
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vj wrote:
Cheri2Star wrote: Because Christians and Jews are not blowing innocent people up on a daily basis. Christians and Jews are not setting up terroist camps. Anyone who is *not* more suspicious of Muslim activities is naive. THANK YOU! that was what others i asked said, too. MAJOR Bitch rant: First: Tim McVey who blew up the Murre Federal Building in Oklahoma City was a Chritsian. Eric Robert Rudolph who blew up a woman's clinic and a gay night club and who was possibly responsible for the bomb that exploded in Olympic Park in Atlanta is a Christian. (Some Christians regard Rudolph as a HERO for killing queers and baby-killers.) I don't know that Isrealis have blown up any Americans lately, but they do seem to have endless fun using their helicopter gunships to blow up Arab homes in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. (The dead Palestinian children who got in the way don't count as innocent, I guess.) And, lately most of the bombs being blown up by Muslims are aimed at other Muslims. Second: vj questions the motives of Muslim charities based on nothing more than their religion, and then cries that I've attacked her. How hypocritical is that? Her feelings are hurt, but what about the feelings of any possible readers here who happen to be Muslim? I'll bet those folks (if there are any) don't speak up because they're afraid of all the hate they'd have to endure. I suppose the feelings of Muslims don't count because, well, they're Muslims and therefore, probably terrorists. Third: On September 11, 2001, nineteen Muslim men, mostly from Saudi Arabia, flew jetliners into building in the US, killing nearly 3000 people. They were motivated by politics, but justified their action with their religion. As of that date, all Muslims everywhere became The Enemy, regardless of their political views (In 2000, most American Muslims voted for George W. Bush), or their nationality. Hundreds, if not thousands (no one know the true numbers) of young Muslim men in the US were summarily detained, indefinitely, without being charged with anything and without benefit of legal counsel. Fourth: Indonesia, the country hardest hit by the tsunami, has more Muslims per square foot than any other country in the world. The Indonesian government is friendly to the US, but has a problem with Islamist rebels. These rebels are demonstrably anti-American, having kidnapped and killed a number of American tourists and missionaries. These Muslim operated chiefly in the Aceh Province of northern Sumatra, whose capital was virtually wiped out by the Wave. Somehow, I can't see why you are even considering donating money for the relief effort. I'd think, that since you seem to hate Muslims so much, you would be down on your knees praising God because He destroyed so many of The Enemy. ----------------------------------------- I TOLD you not to push my buttons, and you all can bite my ass. I wouldn't have anything to do with a bunch of bigots, anyway. Snarling, Arondelle -- ================================================== ========= To email me, empty the pond with a net |
#44
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~~~~Christians and Jews are not setting up terroist camps. Anyone who
is ]*not* more suspicious of Muslim activities is naive. THANK YOU! that was what others i asked said, too.~~~~~ They have very selective memories, then. And are naive to boot. |
#45
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She's right.
~~~~~~~~First: Tim McVey who blew up the Murre Federal Building in Oklahoma City was a Chritsian. Eric Robert Rudolph who blew up a woman's clinic and a gay night club and who was possibly responsible for the bomb that exploded in Olympic Park in Atlanta is a Christian. (Some Christians regard Rudolph as a HERO for killing queers and baby-killers.) I don't know that Isrealis have blown up any Americans lately, but they do seem to have endless fun using their helicopter gunships to blow up Arab homes in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. (The dead Palestinian children who got in the way don't count as innocent, I guess.) And, lately most of the bombs being blown up by Muslims are aimed at other Muslims. Second: vj questions the motives of Muslim charities based on nothing more than their religion, and then cries that I've attacked her. How hypocritical is that? Her feelings are hurt, but what about the feelings of any possible readers here who happen to be Muslim? I'll bet those folks (if there are any) don't speak up because they're afraid of all the hate they'd have to endure. I suppose the feelings of Muslims don't count because, well, they're Muslims and therefore, probably terrorists. Third: On September 11, 2001, nineteen Muslim men, mostly from Saudi Arabia, flew jetliners into building in the US, killing nearly 3000 people. They were motivated by politics, but justified their action with their religion. As of that date, all Muslims everywhere became The Enemy, regardless of their political views (In 2000, most American Muslims voted for George W. Bush), or their nationality. Hundreds, if not thousands (no one know the true numbers) of young Muslim men in the US were summarily detained, indefinitely, without being charged with anything and without benefit of legal counsel. Fourth: Indonesia, the country hardest hit by the tsunami, has more Muslims per square foot than any other country in the world. The Indonesian government is friendly to the US, but has a problem with Islamist rebels. These rebels are demonstrably anti-American, having kidnapped and killed a number of American tourists and missionaries. These Muslim operated chiefly in the Aceh Province of northern Sumatra, whose capital was virtually wiped out by the Wave. Somehow, I can't see why you are even considering donating money for the relief effort. I'd think, that since you seem to hate Muslims so much, you would be down on your knees praising God because He destroyed so many of The Enemy. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~` |
#46
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You are joking aren't you? At least about Christians. The Crusades? The
Spanish Inquistion? The Salem Witch Hunts? To name a few. Every Christian needs to study the rise of their own religion. Especially from 1200 onwards. Just because it happened in the past does NOT excuse it. You want apologies from Muslims now? When has there ever been an apology to the midwives who were murdered as witches? Christians and Jews have visited violence and annexation upon Muslims, starting with the crusades and more recently the annexation of Palestine led by powerful US Jewish lobby groups. This is invasion. A violent and agressive act. The lunacy of annexation is startling. Did we learn nothing from the Rhineland debacle? And let us not forget it was Britain who created Iraq. To control oil. Naivety comes from ignorance and if you want to be taken at all seriously, study history. There is not one nation represented on this board who does not have something to answer to. I'm in agreement with Arondelle here - it's statements like this that make me angry beyond reason and disparing that there is so much ignorance in the world. Because Christians and Jews are not blowing innocent people up on a daily basis. Christians and Jews are not setting up terroist camps. Anyone who is *not* more suspicious of Muslim activities is naive. Cheri (Bubbee to Emily and Nathan) It's my life And it's now or never I ain't gonna live forever I just want to live while I'm alive - Bon Jovi |
#47
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Thanks for those words, Arondelle...and like Sooz said, "she's right."
"Arondelle" wrote in message news:XsDBd.20932$2X6.4538@trnddc07... vj wrote: Cheri2Star wrote: Because Christians and Jews are not blowing innocent people up on a daily basis. Christians and Jews are not setting up terroist camps. Anyone who is *not* more suspicious of Muslim activities is naive. THANK YOU! that was what others i asked said, too. MAJOR Bitch rant: First: Tim McVey who blew up the Murre Federal Building in Oklahoma City was a Chritsian. Eric Robert Rudolph who blew up a woman's clinic and a gay night club and who was possibly responsible for the bomb that exploded in Olympic Park in Atlanta is a Christian. (Some Christians regard Rudolph as a HERO for killing queers and baby-killers.) I don't know that Isrealis have blown up any Americans lately, but they do seem to have endless fun using their helicopter gunships to blow up Arab homes in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. (The dead Palestinian children who got in the way don't count as innocent, I guess.) And, lately most of the bombs being blown up by Muslims are aimed at other Muslims. Second: vj questions the motives of Muslim charities based on nothing more than their religion, and then cries that I've attacked her. How hypocritical is that? Her feelings are hurt, but what about the feelings of any possible readers here who happen to be Muslim? I'll bet those folks (if there are any) don't speak up because they're afraid of all the hate they'd have to endure. I suppose the feelings of Muslims don't count because, well, they're Muslims and therefore, probably terrorists. Third: On September 11, 2001, nineteen Muslim men, mostly from Saudi Arabia, flew jetliners into building in the US, killing nearly 3000 people. They were motivated by politics, but justified their action with their religion. As of that date, all Muslims everywhere became The Enemy, regardless of their political views (In 2000, most American Muslims voted for George W. Bush), or their nationality. Hundreds, if not thousands (no one know the true numbers) of young Muslim men in the US were summarily detained, indefinitely, without being charged with anything and without benefit of legal counsel. Fourth: Indonesia, the country hardest hit by the tsunami, has more Muslims per square foot than any other country in the world. The Indonesian government is friendly to the US, but has a problem with Islamist rebels. These rebels are demonstrably anti-American, having kidnapped and killed a number of American tourists and missionaries. These Muslim operated chiefly in the Aceh Province of northern Sumatra, whose capital was virtually wiped out by the Wave. Somehow, I can't see why you are even considering donating money for the relief effort. I'd think, that since you seem to hate Muslims so much, you would be down on your knees praising God because He destroyed so many of The Enemy. ----------------------------------------- I TOLD you not to push my buttons, and you all can bite my ass. I wouldn't have anything to do with a bunch of bigots, anyway. Snarling, Arondelle -- ================================================== ========= To email me, empty the pond with a net |
#48
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Harsh but all completely TRUE. Most Muslims and Muslim organizations are
no more of a threat than most Christians and Christian organizations, or most Jews and Jewish organizations. There are extemist Muslims who hate all non-Muslims, but sadly enough, there are some extremist Christians who hate all non-Christians, and who would be all too happy to see pagans and jews wiped out. Occasionally, some of them act on it. -Kalera Arondelle wrote: MAJOR Bitch rant: First: Tim McVey who blew up the Murre Federal Building in Oklahoma City was a Chritsian. Eric Robert Rudolph who blew up a woman's clinic and a gay night club and who was possibly responsible for the bomb that exploded in Olympic Park in Atlanta is a Christian. (Some Christians regard Rudolph as a HERO for killing queers and baby-killers.) I don't know that Isrealis have blown up any Americans lately, but they do seem to have endless fun using their helicopter gunships to blow up Arab homes in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. (The dead Palestinian children who got in the way don't count as innocent, I guess.) And, lately most of the bombs being blown up by Muslims are aimed at other Muslims. Second: vj questions the motives of Muslim charities based on nothing more than their religion, and then cries that I've attacked her. How hypocritical is that? Her feelings are hurt, but what about the feelings of any possible readers here who happen to be Muslim? I'll bet those folks (if there are any) don't speak up because they're afraid of all the hate they'd have to endure. I suppose the feelings of Muslims don't count because, well, they're Muslims and therefore, probably terrorists. Third: On September 11, 2001, nineteen Muslim men, mostly from Saudi Arabia, flew jetliners into building in the US, killing nearly 3000 people. They were motivated by politics, but justified their action with their religion. As of that date, all Muslims everywhere became The Enemy, regardless of their political views (In 2000, most American Muslims voted for George W. Bush), or their nationality. Hundreds, if not thousands (no one know the true numbers) of young Muslim men in the US were summarily detained, indefinitely, without being charged with anything and without benefit of legal counsel. Fourth: Indonesia, the country hardest hit by the tsunami, has more Muslims per square foot than any other country in the world. The Indonesian government is friendly to the US, but has a problem with Islamist rebels. These rebels are demonstrably anti-American, having kidnapped and killed a number of American tourists and missionaries. These Muslim operated chiefly in the Aceh Province of northern Sumatra, whose capital was virtually wiped out by the Wave. Somehow, I can't see why you are even considering donating money for the relief effort. I'd think, that since you seem to hate Muslims so much, you would be down on your knees praising God because He destroyed so many of The Enemy. ----------------------------------------- I TOLD you not to push my buttons, and you all can bite my ass. I wouldn't have anything to do with a bunch of bigots, anyway. Snarling, Arondelle -- -Kalera http://www.beadwife.com http://www.snipurl.com/kebay |
#49
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On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 15:45:01 -0500, Dr. Sooz wrote
(in message .com): She's right. And I'll disagree with both of you, although I respect and care about you both. There are many, many worthwhile charities, religious based and secular who are coming to the aid of the people in Indonesia. I have not heard of one charity who is even considering the religion of the victim when dispensing aid. VJ (who has a kid going to that part of the world, and quite soon, too) posted a list of charities that the US Government says may be suspicious, and all are Islamic based. None of them are openly saying "We're the let's kill Americans charity," because that would be stupid, but it's possible, even likely that one or more of these Islamic based charities funds actions that kill Americans. As the mom of a person who would be right in the crosshairs, VJ asks that people think twice before giving money to such charities. (VJ's not saying "demonize Muslims," or saying "don't help the victims," but simply to think about which charity you prefer to use to transmit your donation) Arondelle, exercising her right to disagree, decides that VJ is wrong, and not so subtly talks about how it is prejudiced (or racist, I can't remember) to not give money to Islamic charities, because the people receiving aid "might be more comfortable getting it from their own faith." VJ feels attacked, other people jump in, and it ends with Arondelle pulling out the argument that "just because many terrorists are Islamic, not all Islamic people are terrorists." Well, duh - and we know about the Christian terrorists as well. However, something no one ever mentions is that the US does not officially export terrorists to Islamic countries with the express purpose of killing those who do not share the official US faith. (We don't have one, anyway. The majority of people here are at leat nominally Christian or Jewish, but we have no state religion) Something that the vast majority of Islamic countries are guilty of. Indonesia is officially friendly to the US, but is also locked in a civil war with a faction who is not at all friendly to the US, and the outcome of that war is certainly not a sure thing. Besides, Indonesia's brand of friendliness isn't exactly a what I'd expect of a friend. it's more like "less of an enemy than other places." (Or "we only hate the US a little bit these days") Over the past few days, there has been a real discussion of charity: who gets it and why, the responsibilities of the givers, and where else they might be spending money. The fact is that the US gives more, in total dollars to overseas charity than any other donor nation. It used to be Japan, but with the implosion of their economy, that has changed. (With the state of the US economy, it may well change here, too) We give very little in terms of our GDP, while some other countries (most vocally Norway), give much larger portions of their GDP, although the actual dollar figures are dwarfed by the amounts given by the US. What no one has mentioned is the responsibility of the recipients. The Indonesian Minster of Tourism announced today that fewer than 10% of all the resorts in the Phucket area were damaged in any way, and that "Indonesia is open for tourist business." Indeed, many European tourists (the backbone of the area economy) are returning for vacations, and many aren't noticing anything wrong. Most likely, this is because the Indonesian government has cleaned up the tourist areas first. One thing that shocked me was that this same Minister said that even without foreign aid, only 0.3% of Indonesia's tourist dollars would be lost because of the tsunami. It stands to reason then, that once foreign aid is counted, that Indonesia, at least, will make money on this horrific tragedy. Compare that to say, Florida, who saw four tremendous hurricanes in one season. I heard of no foreign aid dollars flowing into the US because of those natural disasters. (The loss of life between the two places is incomparable - the US had a warning system that saved countless lives. The Tsunami area did not) Arondelle mentioned that the people receiving aid "might be more comfortable getting it from their own faith." I'll come right out and say, Tough! I think it's a GOOD thing that these Islamic people aren't receiving all their aid from Islamic charities, and an even better thing that the people see that some of their aid is coming from Christians, Jews and even the hated US. If that makes them a little uncomfortable, and makes them question the "news stories" that are broadcast on Al Jazeera every day - Good! (Though I'm sure that the stories will be twisted in some hideous way regardless - a bad peanut butter sandwich will become "chemical warfare" by the time it is broadcast.) Americans are not demons, and the fact that rank and file Americans have given far more than the disaster areas can even absorb tells a lot about us as a people. I'm quite sure that many people here on RCB gave, even people whose religious beliefs strongly conflict with those of Islam. Because it's the right thing to do. Because even all people of conscience see that suffering does not follow religious boundries. It's not a popular stance to take, but being a Christian, a Jew or an American does not automatically make you a bad guy. If there were a charity that was even remotely suspected of funding a "lets kill Manda fund," you would be right in thinking that I would be shouting "Don't give these people money!" from the rooftops. Why is what VJ doing anything different than that? Especially when there are loads of charities who are under no such suspicion, and most have much better records of giving high percentages of money to victims and using minimal amounts of donations as "overhead"? Now, for the responsibilities of those receiving aid: No one expects or wants groveling, and anyone who does expect groveling is giving for a lousy reason. But most people who give do expect that the recipients to use the resources well, not to waste aid unnecessarily (although I think most people realize that some aid will be wasted, at least until infrastructure is back in place) and to show a modicum of gratitude (even if not overt), and to think reasonably well of the giver. People don't like to have their gifts ignored or rubbed back in their faces, and they would like to think that if the givers needed help that they would be helped in return. Unfortunately, Americans have become accustomed to just that kind of response to their generosity. The main side effect of being universally hated is that giving foreign aid has become politically unpopular in the US. As Americans see their employment base move overseas and their standards of living continue to erode, they are even less likely to want to give money to people who, rightly or wrongly, are perceived as already benefitting from American jobs. I personally give a lot, both to individuals and to charities. Most of my thoughts on givers and recipients is based on my personal experience. I know that there are some people that don't even bother to acknowledge my gift, not even to say that they received it. (Sometimes I only know that my gift was received becasue my Paypal balance went down. That stings) There are others who want to pay me back in some way, even though I am always up front in saying that I never want repayment - just help someone else who needs it down the line. I've even had people cut off all contact entirely with me once they received what they wanted; I can't even begin to fathom the rationalization behind that. So yeah, I have my own agenda when deciding on charity. I read a lot of opinions from a lot of different places, and watch/read the news from many viewpoints. I've traveled many places and had people tell me that I can't be an American, because I'm too nice. I get looks of disbelief when I tell people everywhere that I am about as average as they come. To me, it is no mystery why a people who pay 1/3 of their incomes to taxes, a major portion of which is spent overseas, is not thrilled to be called selfish, cheap or evil. I think it is a real statement about the goodness of ordinary American people that they are willing to put aside all the insults and the fear for their own children to dig deep and give their hard earned money to help people through a horrendous natural disaster. Even though some of those people would gladly take the money and then kill the givers. Don't believe me? Well, a chunk of money is going to Somalia, whose "victims" dragged the bodies of American servicemen through the streets of Mogadishu. Just my two cents, and I know it's not going to be a popular opinion, Kathy N-V |
#50
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~~~~~You are joking aren't you? At least about Christians. The
Crusades? The Spanish Inquistion? The Salem Witch Hunts? To name a few. Every Christian needs to study the rise of their own religion. Especially from 1200 onwards. Just because it happened in the past does NOT excuse it. You want apologies from Muslims now? When has there ever been an apology to the midwives who were murdered as witches?~~~~ How about the neo-nazis here in the USA? Skinheads? Survivalists? These are all Christian militias, whether well-organized or not, and well-funded for the most part. It's insane to say Muslims are the only ones who terrorize. Good god. |
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