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Ebay Diamonds



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 20th 08, 06:04 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
papa smurf
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Ebay Diamonds

Hello All,

I am in the market for loose diamonds. I have been to several stores
in my area, but recently decided to look at how diamonds are selling
on E-Bay. From what auctions I have found, diamonds sell considerably
less on E-Bay. I am interested in purchasing diamonds on E-Bay;
however, my dilemma is the following:
1. I feel uncomfortable making such an expensive purchase over a wire
without seeing my product first.
2. I worry that I=92m getting scammed.
3. I wonder if I truly am getting the best deal.
4. I=92m not sure what probing questions to ask for my protection.
Can anyone offer good suggestions as to how I can protect myself while
making such a large purchase? I would also love to hear from folks
who have actually purchased diamonds on e-bay. I appreciate your
advice and time!
Ads
  #2  
Old June 21st 08, 05:46 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Heinrich Butschal[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default Ebay Diamonds

papa smurf schrieb:
Hello All,

I am in the market for loose diamonds. I have been to several stores
in my area, but recently decided to look at how diamonds are selling
on E-Bay. From what auctions I have found, diamonds sell considerably
less on E-Bay. I am interested in purchasing diamonds on E-Bay;
however, my dilemma is the following:
1. I feel uncomfortable making such an expensive purchase over a wire
without seeing my product first.


This won´t help. Especially if You are not a diamond expert you can´t fix the
quality and the worth of the diamond by yourself.

2. I worry that I'm getting scammed.
3. I wonder if I truly am getting the best deal.


If You will buy cheap the risk is higher that You will get a banana. So it is
better to buy in a store witch is well known and eg. a company of good
standing. They won´t cheat You.

4. I'm not sure what probing questions to ask for my protection.
Can anyone offer good suggestions as to how I can protect myself while
making such a large purchase? I would also love to hear from folks
who have actually purchased diamonds on e-bay. I appreciate your
advice and time!


Look here for diamanonds wich are second hand ans so far not too expensive.
http://www.schmuck-boerse.com/index-...-diamant-2.htm

Mit freundlichem Gruß,
Heinrich Butschal
--
Schmuck Gutachter und Schmuckverkauf http://www.butschal.de
Schmuck nach Maß anfertigen http://www.meister-atelier.de
Firmengeschenke und Ehrennadeln http://www.goldschmiede-meister.com
Schmuckmanufaktur http://www.schmuckfabrik.de
Schmuck gut verkaufen und günstig kaufen http://www.schmuck-boerse.com
  #3  
Old June 21st 08, 10:04 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
William Black
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 77
Default Ebay Diamonds


"papa smurf" wrote in message
...
Hello All,

I am in the market for loose diamonds. I have been to several stores
in my area, but recently decided to look at how diamonds are selling
on E-Bay. From what auctions I have found, diamonds sell considerably
less on E-Bay. I am interested in purchasing diamonds on E-Bay;
however, my dilemma is the following:
1. I feel uncomfortable making such an expensive purchase over a wire
without seeing my product first.
2. I worry that I=92m getting scammed.
3. I wonder if I truly am getting the best deal.
4. I=92m not sure what probing questions to ask for my protection.
Can anyone offer good suggestions as to how I can protect myself while
making such a large purchase? I would also love to hear from folks
who have actually purchased diamonds on e-bay. I appreciate your
advice and time!


Diamonds without a certificate of origin these days may be 'blood diamonds'.

Pass them through an international border (by post or in your pocket) you
stand a chance of getting them impounded.

These days the diamond investment market is plunging like a stone. It's an
artificial market that has a very limited lifetime now that everyone has
realised that it's a cartel cheating them.

Buy rubies, you can't fake them or manufacture them.

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.




  #4  
Old June 21st 08, 10:22 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Peter W.. Rowe,
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 355
Default Ebay Diamonds

On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:04:52 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry "William Black"
wrote:



Diamonds without a certificate of origin these days may be 'blood diamonds'.


Yes, but it's a fairly small percentage of the overall market. And certificates
of origin too, are pretty much based on trust. paper is easier to fake than
diamonds. The thing to rely on is the integrity of your supplier. Not papers.
In the U.S., at this point in time, blood diamonds are more the subject of
movies and news stories than a major problem. Yes, the problem still exists,
but it's only a small percentage of the diamond market that's at all suspect.
This doesn't help with detecting such stones, but the odds are still in your
favor. And of course, while blood diamonds are a social issue, they are not a
gemological issue. Blood diamonds are still diamonds, after all. The trick is
making sure your money is not going to finance suffering and war. Instead, it
should be going to make a filthy rich monopoly even richer... (grin)


Pass them through an international border (by post or in your pocket) you
stand a chance of getting them impounded.


Oh? Not likely. At least not at the consumer level or with cut stones. Now,
if you smuggle anything illegally, you can get it confiscated and yourself in
jail. Diamonds are not in some special class here. But we're just talking
about buying stones on ebay in this thread, not on buying millions of carats of
rough and crossing borders.


These days the diamond investment market is plunging like a stone. It's an
artificial market that has a very limited lifetime now that everyone has
realised that it's a cartel cheating them.


How is this some sudden thing? The market is as it's been for almost a hundred
years. The internet has changed a lot of the rules of buying stones at the
retail level, but the "investment" market in diamonds pretty much dried up a
couple decades ago. it's been back, mostly, to a gem market for traditional gem
needs. Yes, the market is a bit slow now, but not unsurprising for a global
recession.

If you really want to be looking for threats to the diamond market, forget about
some new level of consumer awareness. That'll never happen. Instead, look to
the future availability of good synthetic diamonds. That MIGHT have an effect
worth noting. But despite a number of years of loud news stories and alarms,
it's not happened yet. Either the crash, or the avialability of the synthetic
stones. So far, you can get a limited supply of synthetic diamonds in bright
yellows and orange colors. So far, not colorless. That may be a few years off
yet. And whether it will affect the market for natural stones remains to be
seen. The wide availability of many synthetic colored stones hasn't much hurt
the market for the finest of the natural gems. if anything, it's raised
awareness of those gems and demand for them.


Buy rubies, you can't fake them or manufacture them.


what planet are you living on, William? Synthetic rubies have been around since
the late 1800s, and have been getting better all along. Some of the common
types are easy to identify, but there are others that require a sophisticated
commercial gem lab to positively separate from the natural rubies. Your
statement about buying rubies is a good one nevertheless, since fine natural
rubies remain rare and, as gems go, a good investement. But you certainly CAN
fake them and manufacture them. Such fakes and synthetics are widely and
inexpensively available, and are much more common than good natural stones. And
then there are the many issues with treated rubies. Heat treated, diffused, or
glass filled natural rubies present ever more thorny problems for gemologists
and buyers every year. In fact, coming back to the buying and selling of gems
on ebay, I'd guess that someone buying "ruby" on ebay is far more likely to be
sold a synthetic or simulated ruby fraudulently, than would be someone buying
diamond, since in the case of diamond, the choice of a cheap synthetic diamond
doesn't exist, so it would have to be a simulant (not as close a substitution,
and easy to detect) if not actually a diamond.

Peter
  #5  
Old June 21st 08, 10:49 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Peter W.. Rowe,
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 355
Default Ebay Diamonds

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:04:20 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry papa smurf
wrote:

Hello All,

I am in the market for loose diamonds. I have been to several stores
in my area, but recently decided to look at how diamonds are selling
on E-Bay. From what auctions I have found, diamonds sell considerably
less on E-Bay. I am interested in purchasing diamonds on E-Bay;
however, my dilemma is the following:
1. I feel uncomfortable making such an expensive purchase over a wire
without seeing my product first.
2. I worry that I'm getting scammed.
3. I wonder if I truly am getting the best deal.
4. I'm not sure what probing questions to ask for my protection.
Can anyone offer good suggestions as to how I can protect myself while
making such a large purchase? I would also love to hear from folks
who have actually purchased diamonds on e-bay. I appreciate your
advice and time!


papa smurf,

You need to tell us a little more for a meaningful answer.

Are you a jeweler or collector looking to buy for stock or inventory or
otherwise in significant quantities? If so, you'd be better off cultivating the
usual business relationships with standard wholesale diamond suppliers and
dealers. if you're really at this level, then you'll know where and how to
educate yourself about diamonds so as to be able to compare dealers, as well as
evaluate the stones.

I'm assuming, though, that this is not correct, but that rather, you wish to buy
diamonds for your own use and ownership. Right? So you're a "retail" customer
looking to save money. That's natural enough, since traditional "brick and
morter" stores often charge a higher markup than you may wish to pay. For that,
you get better service, warranties, sometimes buy-back policies, the right to
expect that what you're buying is indeed what it's described as being, and the
fun of knowing you're making a salesperson happy. Sometimes, very happy.

The internet, however, has changed many of the old rules of buying diamonds. it
used to be that any jeweler could sell you diamonds, that most such jewelers
were fairly competative with each other, and this standard retail market was the
main place most people bought diamonds. The usual markup between wholesale and
these retail sales varied from 200 to 300 percent, and any shopper doing a bit
of store comparisons could find the best deals, while the higher price levels
might offer things like more exclusive designers, or more libral financing
option. or just more advertising.

But the internet has seen any number of people go into business by setting up a
web site on which they host the inventory list of one or more of their diamond
wholesale suppliers (real wholesalers, not the scam "wholesale to the public"
sorts of things), to which the web site would add a markup. In these sites, the
markup sometimes would be as low as a ten percent markup, VERY low by any
business model or retail standard you might choose to look at. Even wholesale
clubs like costco or sams, or your grocery store, usually need to mark things up
more than that just to break even, so these web sales of diamonds really have
put a dent in the diamond market. Now, many of these brick and morter stores
have had to compete. I know any number of retailers who will order a stone to
be sent on memo, show it to a customer, and if it's Ok, will sell it for a
fairly small added markup, sometimes as low as that ten or fifteen percent,
though usually a bit more. Still, it's a LOT more competative than it used to
be. Some of the more pricey and exclusive stores don't do this, but still
charge the same high markups they ever did, and there are people who will still
happily pay these prices. But you don't need to any more if you're careful. And
if you shop on line, and do your research into reputations and the like, you can
still find those sites selling at a very reasonable and low markup.
www.tradeshop.com is one such. Started by one of the original regulars to this
newsgroup way back in the mid 90s, Ray Elsey, who sadly, passed away earlier
this year. But his company is still in business, and they're still happily
giving people bargains on diamonds. And they're not along. Blue Nile, a
Seattle based company, has in just a few years become one of the biggest diamond
sellers in the country, all on their web site. Not quite as cheap as tradeshop,
but still a fine firm to buy from, who's ****ing off lots of the traditional
retail jewelers by being cheaper than they are... And a bit of a search of the
net will show you many many more such options if you look.

As to ebay. Well, it's not the site that matters. it's the sellers. Remember
that, as an auction site, ebay has nothing to do with the merchandise. It's
all individual sellers, who may vary from crooks to fine dealers to individual
housewives who no longer want their jewelery and are trying to dump it somehow.
Just how you protect yourself here is kind of up to you. Hard to check on
people aside from their ebay feedback records, which sometimes can give you a
skewed view. You don't know who their buyers are, how experienced and
knowlegeable those buyers are, and thus, how valid their feedback. Sometimes
you can check out a seller to verify who they are, and other times you can't.

Ebay is a good place to shop for things IF, and only IF, you know what you're
doing as regards the merchandise. if you know diamond grading and evaluation,
and thus can form an informed opionion of a stone based on it's description, as
well as knowing when a description isn't telling you what it needs to do in
order to be accurate, then you've a hope of finding some decent deals. i've
seen some stones sold on ebay for less than their wholesale value, and others
sold there not only for more than their retail value, but which shouldn't have
been sold at all, due to fraudulent descriptions. To do OK on ebay, you need
to first already know what the market prices for a given item or stone should
be, and then you need to know how to be sure the item is as described, and what
the description needs to tell you to be meaningful. This isn't a simple list
of questions we can give you here on the newsgroup which you can read down and
rattle off to a seller and get answers or no answers to. You need to actually
understand the subject of you are a sitting duck for the shysters and won't know
it. Still, you might get some fine buys. But will you know them when you see
them? Can you read a discription and know that what it's describing tells you
a stone is worth buying instead of a stone with lots of fancy sounding labels
that tells you nothing? You know the old saying. buyer beware. Loose
gemstones on ebay is one fine example of that. Many sellers there are fine
people and their wares are honest. But whether they're a great bargain is
another question. A simple list of things you should ask won't help you. You
need to understand diamonds well enough to have figured out what the questions
are on your own, I think. Otherwise, someone could still just tell you all the
right answers, and still send you a piece of crap, and you won't know the
difference.

Peter
  #6  
Old June 21st 08, 10:52 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
William Black
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 77
Default Ebay Diamonds


"Peter W.. Rowe," wrote in message
...

Pass them through an international border (by post or in your pocket) you
stand a chance of getting them impounded.


Oh? Not likely. At least not at the consumer level or with cut stones.


British Customs (I'm not sure what the agency is called this week) has just
bought a very clever device for telling the origin of diamonds by some sort
clever test, probably crystalography of some kind.

I gather that if you're even wearing too much expensive looking jewellery
they get to play with it. Shipments of diamonds all get to go through it...

The UK government has a great deal of interest in blood diamonds as a lot of
them come from Sierra Leone where HMG has just fought a short but nasty war
and is busy spending loads of money on making sure it's a nice stable
democracy.

Guess where the bad guy's money came from...

If you really want to be looking for threats to the diamond market, forget
about
some new level of consumer awareness. That'll never happen. Instead,
look to
the future availability of good synthetic diamonds. That MIGHT have an
effect
worth noting. But despite a number of years of loud news stories and
alarms,
it's not happened yet. Either the crash, or the avialability of the
synthetic
stones. So far, you can get a limited supply of synthetic diamonds in
bright
yellows and orange colors. So far, not colorless. That may be a few
years off
yet. And whether it will affect the market for natural stones remains to
be
seen. The wide availability of many synthetic colored stones hasn't much
hurt
the market for the finest of the natural gems. if anything, it's raised
awareness of those gems and demand for them.


I keep looking for these synthetic stones here in the UK, but, as I've
said before here, so far nobody seems to be interested in supplying them to
jewellers in small quantities.

Buy rubies, you can't fake them or manufacture them.


what planet are you living on, William? Synthetic rubies have been around
since
the late 1800s, and have been getting better all along. Some of the
common
types are easy to identify, but there are others that require a
sophisticated
commercial gem lab to positively separate from the natural rubies.


Then I must have misheard the chap at one gem supplier.

My mistake.

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.





  #7  
Old June 21st 08, 11:25 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Peter W.. Rowe,
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 355
Default Ebay Diamonds

On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:52:20 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry "William Black"
wrote:


British Customs (I'm not sure what the agency is called this week) has just
bought a very clever device for telling the origin of diamonds by some sort
clever test, probably crystalography of some kind.


Very costly machines. They detect very slight differences in the various
impurities in the crystals, which tend to vary based on location. Even then,
however, it seldom can proove origin, only suggest it, as there's significant
overlap in these properties from one location to another. They can, for
example, take some stones and know for certain that they did not come from
Sierro leone (one of the biggest problem areas), but the machine can't say this
for certain for all locations, especially stones from other parts of africa with
similar geology. And then there are the stones from Sierra Leone that happen to
be legal. Perhaps mined legally before the war, or since, etc. etc. No
separation there. And some stones, both blook diamonds and not, will simply not
give any definative reading on the machine. It's a better test than nothing,
but a long way from being even close to perfect. So far, the only real
solution has been requiring importers, cutters, dealers, to maintain a paper
trail showing the origin of the stones. But I've yet to see a retail store
offering retail customers any paperwork that verifiably continues this paper
trail, so consumers are left hanging. And dishonest dealers have been known to
forge paperwork.


I gather that if you're even wearing too much expensive looking jewellery
they get to play with it. Shipments of diamonds all get to go through it...


Shipments are probably less of a problem, since the likelyhood of proper
paperwork and documentation is higher. Such documentation is not likely with
finished jewelery, and even then, the testing may be not very meaningful. Even
if diamonds are suspected of being originally from Sierra Leone or other
conflict areas, there's no way to tell when they were mined, or if legally. You
could have a fine diamond necklace, purchased legally in Hong Cong, with
paperwork claiming conflict free diamonds, which are in fact bloody as hell, but
if properly declared at customs, this would be legal. no grounds to confiscate
it. Or another similar necklace, except from Harry Winston made in 1955, also
with stones from Seirra Leone that the machine might yell about, yet it too is
legal and the diamonds were not in a conflict then. All in all, lots of
problems with such test. But at least, smugglers don't always know this. The
real testers are likely to remain the customs officers themselves, looking for
things being brought across that they can prove are illegal, or when smugglers,
thinking themselves caught, will give away clues as to their activity.


I keep looking for these synthetic stones here in the UK, but, as I've
said before here, so far nobody seems to be interested in supplying them to
jewellers in small quantities.


In part, they're simply not available even in large quantities. Don't feel
excluded. Gemesys, the main manufacturer of the nice yellow synthetics, is not
able to make anywhere near as much as they could sell, so they hardly need to
look for new distributors, either large or small.


Then I must have misheard the chap at one gem supplier.


Look for Chatham ruby, or Gilson ruby, as two manufacturers of fine flux grown
stones. The cheap stuff is flame fusion, and stones cost pennies, but are still
ruby. Look in wikipedia for "Verneuil process", for this first of the major
ruby synthesis processes. The result is commony used in class rings, cheap
jewelry, industrial bearings (watch bearings are often synthetic ruby like
this). Nice bright red ruby, but easy to identify due to curved growth marks.
Others include the "Czochralski process" (widely used for making the silicon
crystals used in semiconductors, but also for high purity ruby, including for
example, ruby laser rods. The result is one of those that are exceedingly
difficult to prove as being synthetic in some cases, even when common sense
tells you it has to be so, as it's too damn perfect to be real...), or the
hydrothermal process , or Flux Growth methods. These two latter methods often
produce gems that are Very much the same in appearance as natural gems, with the
major differences being in the nature of the inclusions present, a separation
that takes some training and a good microscope to do in many cases. More than
a few gem dealers and even trained gemologists have been fooled by one or more
of the various ruby synthetics or treatments from time to time...

Peter
  #8  
Old June 22nd 08, 01:30 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Abrasha
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 298
Default Ebay Diamonds

papa smurf wrote:
Hello All,

I am in the market for loose diamonds. I have been to several stores
in my area, but recently decided to look at how diamonds are selling
on E-Bay. From what auctions I have found, diamonds sell considerably
less on E-Bay. I am interested in purchasing diamonds on E-Bay;
however, my dilemma is the following:
1. I feel uncomfortable making such an expensive purchase over a wire
without seeing my product first.


So, ... that eliminates eBay.

Question answered I would think

2. I worry that I=92m getting scammed.


Go ahead, worry.

3. I wonder if I truly am getting the best deal.


Go ahead, wonder.

4. I=92m not sure what probing questions to ask for my protection.
Can anyone offer good suggestions as to how I can protect myself while
making such a large purchase?


Don't buy from eBay. Buy from someone you can trust.

I would also love to hear from folks
who have actually purchased diamonds on e-bay.


You're not going to find them here.

I appreciate your
advice and time!


Buy from me. You can trust me. Really, I promise.

In all seriousness. If you would buy a diamond from me, I would only
want to sell you a diamond with a GIA certificate. That way you have
some assurances, that the diamond you get is worth what you paid for it,
plus you can compare the specs and price to other identical or similar
stones.

If you are at all serious, you are more then welcome to contact by phone
for advice. Advice is free.


--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com
  #9  
Old June 22nd 08, 01:37 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Peter W.. Rowe,
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 355
Default Ebay Diamonds

On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 17:30:59 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry Abrasha
wrote:


In all seriousness. If you would buy a diamond from me, I would only
want to sell you a diamond with a GIA certificate. That way you have
some assurances, that the diamond you get is worth what you paid for it,
plus you can compare the specs and price to other identical or similar
stones.


Good recommendation. I'd add that the AGS certificates also seem to be
trustworthy. There are a couple other labs issuing certs that are widely used,
notably EGL. They're often not quite as reliable and accurate in their grading
as GIA and AGS. GIA devised the grading scale usually used, and AGS also
defines the portions of it's scale that differ, so each is using it's own
"ruler". This differs from other labs that usually use the GIA scale, but often
don't do it quite as stringently as the originators of the scales intend. EGL
is notorious for being a bit loose in their grading, so stones with EGL certs
often seem to cost a bit less than same sounding stones with AGS or GIA certs.
They're not better deals automatically. Often, they are stones that would come
back from AGS or GIA with the color or clarity listed one grade below what the
EGL cert claims, thus explaining the apparent differences in cost. Stay away
from stones with certificates issued by the seller, small local labs, or any lab
that's not nationally recognized and used by a wide range of dealers. They may
be fine, and might be quite good enough when you own a stone and need to have
some documentation on it in order to get insurance or something. But to really
verify grades, qualites, and value, you're best off with GIA or AGS as the lab
that does the cert. The AGS scales are different looking from the GIA scales,
but the actual standards for each grade are similar, so comparing from one lab
to the other is easy and valid.

cheers

Peter
  #10  
Old June 22nd 08, 08:40 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Heinrich Butschal[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default Ebay Diamonds

Peter W.. Rowe, schrieb:
On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 17:30:59 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry Abrasha
wrote:

In all seriousness. If you would buy a diamond from me, I would only
want to sell you a diamond with a GIA certificate. That way you have
some assurances, that the diamond you get is worth what you paid for it,
plus you can compare the specs and price to other identical or similar
stones.


Good recommendation. I'd add that the AGS certificates also seem to be
trustworthy. There are a couple other labs issuing certs that are widely used,
notably EGL. They're often not quite as reliable and accurate in their grading
as GIA and AGS. GIA devised the grading scale usually used, and AGS also
defines the portions of it's scale that differ, so each is using it's own
"ruler". This differs from other labs that usually use the GIA scale, but often
don't do it quite as stringently as the originators of the scales intend. EGL
is notorious for being a bit loose in their grading, so stones with EGL certs
often seem to cost a bit less than same sounding stones with AGS or GIA certs.
They're not better deals automatically. Often, they are stones that would come
back from AGS or GIA with the color or clarity listed one grade below what the
EGL cert claims, thus explaining the apparent differences in cost. Stay away
from stones with certificates issued by the seller, small local labs, or any lab
that's not nationally recognized and used by a wide range of dealers. They may
be fine, and might be quite good enough when you own a stone and need to have
some documentation on it in order to get insurance or something. But to really
verify grades, qualites, and value, you're best off with GIA or AGS as the lab
that does the cert. The AGS scales are different looking from the GIA scales,
but the actual standards for each grade are similar, so comparing from one lab
to the other is easy and valid.

cheers

Peter


For Europe, You might add HRD and FGA certificates into the recommendation
list, as well as IGI certificates if these certificate are dated in this
century.


Mit freundlichem Gruß,
Heinrich Butschal
--
Schmuck Gutachter und Schmuckverkauf http://www.butschal.de
Schmuck nach Maß anfertigen http://www.meister-atelier.de
Firmengeschenke und Ehrennadeln http://www.goldschmiede-meister.com
Schmuckmanufaktur http://www.schmuckfabrik.de
Schmuck gut verkaufen und günstig kaufen http://www.schmuck-boerse.com
 




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AD: Diamonds!! Cindy Schoepp Beads 2 February 14th 06 02:26 AM
Diamonds, Cultured Diamonds, and Cubic Zirconia Comparison [email protected] Jewelry 0 April 6th 05 02:41 PM
diamonds Lawrence Jewelry 1 September 18th 04 09:07 AM
diamonds Dr.Quilter Quilting 2 July 16th 04 04:44 PM


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