Another Framing Question - shallow rabbet

My framer laces just about everything on mat board. It's then
possible to adjust the background colors (we toned a repro sampler
down a little so the colors went better with the bird's-eye maple
framing I wanted, for instance) and it can be very helpful in that
regard, as well as making up for shallow frame molding. I've never
had a problem with it warping or not being rigid enough (and I so some
fairly sizeable things and frame without glass.)
HTH, too. Paula B.


Isn't it frustrating when the kit suppliers promote Bad Habits (for
lack of a better word at the moment!)? I had a similar problem
recently. I asked my framer if they had any scraps of acid-free
matting, which they did and gave to me for free , and I laced my
design onto the matting instead of foamcore. Worked pretty well. This
probably wouldn't work with a large design, though.
Just another idea.

On 11/19/03 9:08 AM,"PaulaB" posted:

My framer laces just about everything on mat board. It's then
possible to adjust the background colors (we toned a repro sampler
down a little so the colors went better with the bird's-eye maple
framing I wanted, for instance) and it can be very helpful in that
regard, as well as making up for shallow frame molding. I've never

We often just put acid free mat behind the piece, for exactly that reason.
Especially done when there is cut or drawn thread work, and a certain color
showing through will add so much to the luck. Sometimes we'll have a piece
of fabric that the customer wants to show from behind, so that is put over
the foamcore. But, we still pin. Only lace very occassionally.

had a problem with it warping or not being rigid enough (and I so some
fairly sizeable things and frame without glass.)
Mat board is pretty stiff, much more so than I think people would think.
It's very hard to just cut with a knife. I'm glad this works for you. Do you
have to relace after some years? Just curious,
ellice

Bertha wrote:

That reminds me of a question I've been wondering--is there a trick to
lacing?
I was always afraid of my lacing pulling through, so I usually fold the
edges over about a 1/4 inch and sew them so I have a heavier base for
the lacing. If you don't have enough fabric to do that you can sew
muslin around the edges. I turn the muslin under and sew that, too.
HTH!
--
Joan

See my first-ever design he
http://www.heritageshoppe.com/joan.jpg

"Stitch when you are young and poor, frame when you are old and rich."
- Elizabeth's (rctn'r) sister's MIL (Barbara Marr)

On 11/19/03 2:51 AM,"Fred" posted:

I would think the easiest solution would be to make an extension to the
frame that you have to make the rabbet deeper. Use a material that matches
the existing frame or a material that does not match the existing frame for
a contrasting effect. Glue this extension to the *back side* of the existing
frame. You could make the extension the same size as the existing frame
(outside edge flush all the way around) or a tad bigger to provide a stepped
edge (outside edge stepped all the way around) the frame.

Nice idea, Fred. But, a lot of work for a not very valuable frame, or
someone who doesn't do woodwork. Impressed with the diagram ;^)

Raised backs - when the sandwich of framed stuff ends up thicker than the
frame rabbet - aren't uncommon at all. Just important that the raised back
not be so large that the frame can't actually support the framed objects, or
is distorted hanging, looks really bad from the side. And the dust cover
gets put on neatly to close it all up. We use really heavy black paper in
the shop for our frames. Kind of trademark with the shop sticker - since we
also guarantee our work. If it's your frame that we're redoing, then we
usually use brown kraft paper. Helps to know the difference if something
comes back in.

It's better when the framed material sits completely in the rabbet, the
frame supports things better, and it is more neatly sealed for dust. That's
why sometimes in the frame shop a person picks one molding, but the framer
will say "it's too small" - the depth and width of the molding won't support
the piece. Happens all the time when people pick a slender molding for a
large piece - the frame won't support the weight of the glass, for long.

ellice

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:54:30 -0500, Ellice muttered
something like:

It's better when the framed material sits completely in the rabbet, the
frame supports things better, and it is more neatly sealed for dust. That's
why sometimes in the frame shop a person picks one molding, but the framer
will say "it's too small" - the depth and width of the molding won't support
the piece. Happens all the time when people pick a slender molding for a
large piece - the frame won't support the weight of the glass, for long.

Although you can get around the weight problem by going with a metal
frame--and nowadays they're making some very nice-looking metal frames.
But with those, the whole assembly has to slide into the grooves of the
frame; if the piece is too thick for the rabbet, you're back to finding
another frame.

If you're having it done somewhere, a good framer will think about this
BEFORE you special-order that $12/foot moulding.

-Bertha
--
Old MacDonald had a computer with EIA I/O.

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:53:04 -0600, Joan Erickson
muttered something like:

I was always afraid of my lacing pulling through, so I usually fold the
edges over about a 1/4 inch and sew them so I have a heavier base for
the lacing. If you don't have enough fabric to do that you can sew
muslin around the edges. I turn the muslin under and sew that, too.

Have to try that when I get money to frame something again. Thanks!

-Bertha
--
Cut that out! Everybody knows Izzes don't have eyeballs!

All of these ideas have been interesting to read - I'm learning a lot!
Of course, one thing that hasn't been mentioned: just because the frame
came with the kit doesn't mean you ultimately have to use it. Probably
too expensive for something small, but there is always the option of
just getting a different frame! (Some of us are just plain lazy ;-) )

Barbara

Ellice wrote:
On 11/19/03 2:51 AM,"Fred" posted:


I would think the easiest solution would be to make an extension to the
frame that you have to make the rabbet deeper. Use a material that matches
the existing frame or a material that does not match the existing frame for
a contrasting effect. Glue this extension to the *back side* of the existing
frame. You could make the extension the same size as the existing frame
(outside edge flush all the way around) or a tad bigger to provide a stepped
edge (outside edge stepped all the way around) the frame.


Nice idea, Fred. But, a lot of work for a not very valuable frame, or
someone who doesn't do woodwork. Impressed with the diagram ;^)

Raised backs - when the sandwich of framed stuff ends up thicker than the
frame rabbet - aren't uncommon at all. Just important that the raised back
not be so large that the frame can't actually support the framed objects, or
is distorted hanging, looks really bad from the side. And the dust cover
gets put on neatly to close it all up. We use really heavy black paper in
the shop for our frames. Kind of trademark with the shop sticker - since we
also guarantee our work. If it's your frame that we're redoing, then we
usually use brown kraft paper. Helps to know the difference if something
comes back in.

It's better when the framed material sits completely in the rabbet, the
frame supports things better, and it is more neatly sealed for dust. That's
why sometimes in the frame shop a person picks one molding, but the framer
will say "it's too small" - the depth and width of the molding won't support
the piece. Happens all the time when people pick a slender molding for a
large piece - the frame won't support the weight of the glass, for long.

ellice

On 11/19/03 11:58 AM,"Bertha" posted:

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:54:30 -0500, Ellice muttered
something like:

It's better when the framed material sits completely in the rabbet, the
frame supports things better, and it is more neatly sealed for dust. That's
why sometimes in the frame shop a person picks one molding, but the framer
will say "it's too small" - the depth and width of the molding won't support
the piece. Happens all the time when people pick a slender molding for a
large piece - the frame won't support the weight of the glass, for long.

Although you can get around the weight problem by going with a metal
frame--and nowadays they're making some very nice-looking metal frames.
But with those, the whole assembly has to slide into the grooves of the
frame; if the piece is too thick for the rabbet, you're back to finding
another frame.

You're right. Actually, some of the metals are more expensive than the
woods. Just all about the look you want, and can afford. We do a lot of
little needlework gifts - the more whimsical, kitchen or children's room
pieces - in metal. Frequently just padded, no glass. Little bright metal
frames, not expensive. There's also a line of laminate frames - rounded
moulding that is great for kid's rooms - pastels, and brights, and paint
splatters. They're covered essentially with a printed or colored laminate -
like Formica, and are inexpensive. I wouldn't frame an heirloom piece with
them, but great for many uses, and about the same price as basic metals.

When someone likes a certain molding, but it is too small for their piece,
we try to find a similar - maybe just a size step up. Or same look, but
heftier from a different line. If it's marginal, we tell them - "well, it
would be better in frame a, but if you really want frame b - the back will
be slightly raised". Or, if we're not sure - we'll try one, with the
understanding that we just might have to go with the larger.

If you're having it done somewhere, a good framer will think about this
BEFORE you special-order that $12/foot moulding.

Hopefully, with a good framer you don't have to special order that moulding.
We have boxes of corner samples that aren't up on the walls - and know what
we have down there. Sometimes we don't put up all the colors, all the sizes
of some style, or a different manufacturer may have a similar style but
we'll only put up one. However, we can pull out alternatives, and also pull
out the catalog picture book.

I really miss working in the shop, but...

ellice

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:29:01 -0500, Ellice muttered
something like:

I really miss working in the shop, but...

Another once-framer! They used to give me all the needlework to do,
because I was the only one who actually LIKED mounting them. Back then we
used mount board and short straight pins; I still haven't got lacing
figured out.

-Bertha
--
"I am Jack's inflamed sense of rejection. I felt like putting a bullet
between the eyes of every panda that wouldn't screw to save its species.
I wanted to open the dump valves on oil tankers and smother all those
French beaches I'd never see. I wanted to breathe smoke.
-- Narrator, "Fight Club"

On 11/19/03 12:56 PM,"Barbara Hass" posted:

All of these ideas have been interesting to read - I'm learning a lot!
Of course, one thing that hasn't been mentioned: just because the frame
came with the kit doesn't mean you ultimately have to use it. Probably
too expensive for something small, but there is always the option of
just getting a different frame! (Some of us are just plain lazy ;-) )

Very true, Barbara. I think the original poster had one of those cute looks
like a house frames, so better to make do, I'd guess. The very first thing I
ever stitched was a Kit, Noah's ark, which came with the multi-room house
kit. And, y'know - I never actually put it all together. Recently going thru
some of the basement stash - I found the frame. Guess I ought to finish it -
the child it was for is now almost 9 - thought to be honest I started it
when she was nearly 2, sometime in 96! Now that's a UFO.

ellice