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RCTN - Newsgroup FAQ



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 6th 05, 07:05 PM
Barbara Hass
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default RCTN - Newsgroup FAQ

I checked in today, and see that things are once again deteriorating on
rctn in many threads. Maybe it's time we posted the FAQ and reminded
everyone what this ng is all about! (And that does *not* include
trashing other people, even if you disagree with them - if you must do
that, take it to private email).

This was the most recent post I could find.
Has anyone taken over on the faq archive since Kathy left?

Barbara HJ
---------------


Kathleen M. Dyer Nov 24 2002, 7:49 pm show options
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.textiles.needlework
Followup-To: rec.crafts.textiles.needlework
From: (Kathleen M. Dyer) - Find messages by this author
Date: 25 Nov 2002 00:48:15 GMT
Local: Sun, Nov 24 2002 7:48 pm
Subject: RCTN - What you need to know
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Posted-By: auto-faq 3.3 beta (Perl 5.006)

What You Need to Know About
REC.CRAFTS.TEXTILES.NEEDLEWORK

Updated June 24, 2002
Kathleen M. Dyer

What is this rec.crafts.textiles.needlework, anyway?
----------------------------------------------------

Rec.crafts.textiles.needlework (RCTN) is an unmoderated Usenet
newsgroup. It
was formed in September, 1994, after a vote to split the old
rec.crafts.textiles group into several new groups.

The charter:
This group will be for discussions about needlework, as defined by 'any
form of decorative stitching done by hand'. Included will be all
variations of stitchery: stamped embroidery, counted thread
stitching, and
canvas work, including needlepoint. Discussion might cover
different kinds
of canvases and fabric grounds, flosses, needles and other supplies,
pattern design, marking, and finishing etc.

RCTN is unmoderated, as are most other newsgroups. Unmoderated means
that no
one person is in charge, and that anyone may post. Does this mean that
anything goes? No. The rules of "netiquette" apply.

What rules? Who made them up? Why should I follow them?
---------------------------------------------------------

Netiquette just means good Internet manners. Netiquette can be summed
up as:

~ Learn the way things are done and why they're done that way.

~ Don't abuse other people's resources.

~ Never say anything online to someone that you wouldn't be willing
to say
to that person's face.

Most of the "rules" of RCTN weren't invented here. They're the standard in
tens of thousands of Usenet groups.

Always remember, RCTN is a Usenet newsgroup. It is not a Web site. It
is not
an email list. Usenet, the Web, and email all use the Internet to transmit
information, but that's about all they have in common.

If you don't know how Usenet works, netiquette can seem arbitrary and
strange.
But if you learn a little bit about it, those rules start to make a lot of
sense. They're all about sharing with other people and not wasting
resources--a good thing to do just about anywhere.

So how does Usenet work?
------------------------

Believe it or not, nobody is officially in charge of Usenet! A small number
of people have more power than others, but even that power is only
granted to
them because people choose to do so.

Each Internet Service Provider (ISP) decides for itself if it will carry
newsgroups, and if so which of the tens of thousands of newsgroups it is
going
to carry.

There is no central location where articles are stored. *Each* ISP stores a
copy of *every* article in *every* newsgroup it carries for its own users to
read.

An ISP regularly checks the stream of posts flowing past, finds any it
hasn't
seen before, and stores copies of those. Also, the ISP throws copies of
articles posted by its own users into the flood. Those articles eventually
get copied by *all* the other ISPs that carry those newsgroups.

Since each ISP stores a copy of every article in every newsgroup it
carries, a
lot of disk space is used. Each ISP decides when to delete old articles on
its disks to make room for new ones. That's called the "expire time."
If the
disks fill up quickly, the expire time gets shorter.

So, because of the way it all works, some interesting things happen.

~ Transferring articles from site to site isn't instantaneous, so you may
see a reply before you see the original post. Or you might not receive
exactly the same posts as someone who uses a different Internet
provider.
Or you may see all the same posts, but in a different order.

~ Massive abuses of the system on one newsgroup can impact people who
don't
even read that newsgroup!

But...but...how can that possibly work?
---------------------------------------

Since no one is in charge of the big system or the unmoderated
newsgroups, how
does it keep working?!

It keeps working because people have voluntarily agreed to follow a set of
rules that keep it working. Usenet has been around since at least 1979.
After
countless millions of messages in tens of thousands of newsgroups,
people have
a pretty good idea of what needs to be done to keep it all going. They also
have a good idea of the kinds of behavior that make the system start to
crack.
That mass of experience is the source of the rules of netiquette.

In addition to the common rules, each newsgroup has its own culture and
accepted practices. These are not "official" rules, but ignoring them
*will*
cause you problems. Before posting to an unfamiliar newsgroup, read as many
of the posts as possible. See if the group has a FAQ (Frequently Asked
Questions document) and if so, read it. The odds are good that any
newsgroup
which has been around for more than a few months has a FAQ. The expectation
in virtually *all* of the 40,000+ newsgroups is that if someone decides to
participate, the least he or she can do is spend a little time learning how
the group works.

In many newsgroups, if you violate netiquette in some way, you will receive
some extremely unpleasant email and posts in response. ("Unpleasant" as in
commentary on one's intelligence, ancestry and romantic proclivities
expressed
in swear words one may never have seen or heard before.) Some groups are
more
gentle toward "newbies", simply informing them of the group's and Usenet's
standards.

So, now I've probably terrified you to the point that you'll never post
anything anywhere. :-)

Don't be scared! Read the rest of this document, try to get a feel for the
way things work, use common sense, and be willing to admit that you're still
learning your way around.

If you want to learn more about newsgroups and netiquette, go to these Web
sites:
http://www.albion.com/netiquet te/
http://www.faqs.org/usenet/

You can also subscribe to the "news.newusers.questions" group and the
"news.announce.newusers" group.

For questions about missing articles, slow news, or problems with news
reading
software, the best place to start looking for help is with your own Internet
Service Provider.

There are places on the Internet that archive newsgroup discussions. One of
these is Google http://groups.google.com/.

Definitions
-----------

A post and the follow up posts are a "thread". The term "thread" is used on
all newsgroups, but it is particularly appropriate for RCTN.

Some of the abbreviations people commonly use on RCTN a

NP - needlepoint
OT - Off topic, a post that isn't directly about needlework
S.E.X. - Stash Enhancement eXperience (adding things to your "stash").
UFO - UnFinished Object, a project that has been started but not yet
finished.
XS - cross stitch

See "RCTN Abbreviations" for a longer list. It is available at
http://www.Aion-Needlecrafts.c o.uk/info/abbrev.htm.

Things you need to know about posting
-------------------------------------

Don't post in HTML format!

~ Some ISPs filter out HTML posts, so the people using those ISPs will
never see your posts.

~ Some people use newsreaders that flag an HTML post as an attachment.
Since unknown attachments can be dangerous or annoying (viruses,
worms,
Trojan horses), many people will routinely delete these posts without
opening them. Again, your post goes unseen.

~ Many newsreaders cannot process HTML, so people using these
newsreaders
see all the HTML tags. This makes the post very difficult to
read. Not
too surprisingly, people don't like to waste their online time
deciphering gibberish, and they delete the HTML posts without reading
them. Once more, your post goes unseen.

~ Compared to a plain text post, an HTML post takes up more disk
space at
every single ISP and it takes longer to download. So will *one*
little
HTML post make that much of a difference in the flood that is Usenet?
No! It's simply a matter of respect for other people's time and
resources.

Don't post pictures, sounds or other binary files! Binary files should
not be
posted to discussion-only newsgroups.

~ Binaries are usually much larger than text files and take much
longer to
download. An unexpected binary file can be a very unpleasant
surprise
to someone who pays for phone connection time or internet access
time by
the minute.

~ Binary files take much more space on each Internet Service Provider's
disks, so some ISPs won't carry binary-only groups. If a
discussion-only newsgroup starts to get too many binary files, it
may be
labeled as a "hidden binary" group and some ISPs may stop
carrying it.
So *other* people who had nothing to do with posting the binaries
could
lose their access to the newsgroup!

~ Binary files can "break" or "hang" some newsreaders. A binary
file can
force a person to have to restart their newsreader or even their
computer.

Watch your quotes. Don't quote too much. Don't quote too little.

When you post a followup to a post, quote *only* what is needed
from the
original. But be careful not to get carried away and edit things too
much. Don't delete the line that shows the name and email address of
the person you are quoting. If there are nested quotes, be
certain that
each is attributed to the correct person.

The standard in Usenet newsgroups and mailing lists is to put
your reply
after any quoted material. RCTN doesn't worry about that
particular bit
of netiquette very much. However, even if you put your answer before
any quoted material, you *still* should trim the quote as much as
possible. Excessive quoting is bad netiquette, no matter where the
quotes go. It wastes people's time, the article takes longer to
download, and the article takes up more disk space at every Internet
Service Provider.

Watch your line lengths.

The line length in anything you post should be 80 characters or less.
Anything longer and others may not be able to see the ends or may
have the
lines wrap oddly. In fact, 80 is really too long because some
allowance
should be made for people quoting your post. A line length of about 72
usually works well.

POSTING IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS IS CONSIDERED TO BE SHOUTING.

Let's talk!
-----------

~ Never say anything online that you wouldn't be willing to say to the
person's face. Never forget there are real people on the receiving
end.

~ People can't see your face or hear your tone of voice in a post, so
jokes and sarcasm can be missed. For this reason, some people use
smilies
to show they are joking. :-) ;-)

~ "Lurking" is reading a newsgroup without posting to it. There is
no rule
about how or when to delurk. Some people choose to delurk with an
introductory post. Others jump in with a question or comment.

~ Do *not* offer to photocopy or scan a chart for someone else, or ask
someone else to copy a chart for you. This is a violation of
copyright.

~ If you start a new topic, make the title as descriptive as possible.
Suppose you are looking for a supplier of counted cross stitch
charts of
frogs. You could title the post "Looking for charts", but it would be
better to call it "XS - looking for frog charts".

~ If there's an on topic subject you are interested in and no one is
discussing it, start the discussion yourself. Don't sit around waiting
for someone else to do it. You want to talk about it, so probably
other
people do as well. And posting a complaint about how no one is
discussing
your favorite subject when *you* haven't even posted about it yourself
just looks silly.

~ If you cause the topic of a thread to change, change the title so
people
can tell before reading that it is no longer about losing needles
and has
become a discussion about magnets swallowed by cows.

~ Email vs. posting: the general rule of thumb is that if the message is
something that only one person or a very small number would be
interested
in, use email. If it may be of general interest (sharing,
silliness, etc.
can be of general interest), then post.

~ Posting email someone has sent to you without that person's
permission is
very poor netiquette.

~ You just heard of a horrible computer virus or scary real world danger,
and you feel panicked and you know you must immediately email
everyone in
your address book and post about it to every newsgroup you read because
after all everyone is in danger and it's awful and... (pause to
gulp for
air.) Stop. Take a deep breath. It's O.K. Now, check to make sure it
isn't a hoax. You can do this by checking at sites such as:

"Hoaxbusters" http://hoaxbusters.ciac.org/
"Hoax Warnings" http://www.datafellows.com/new
s/hoax/
"Computer Virus Myths " http://www.kumite.com/myths/
"Urban Legends Reference Pages" http://www.snopes2.com/

Sometimes these warnings are very real, but a great many are well known
hoaxes.

~ Test messages should be sent to a test newsgroup. For example,
misc.test
for general testing, and ba.test for the San Francisco Bay area.

~ It isn't wise to post your home address on a newsgroup. It's like
putting
the address on a large billboard beside a major highway.

~ RCTN allows a certain amount of Off Topic (posts that aren't directly
about needlework) conversation. If you start or reply to an Off Topic
thread, please make sure that the subject line starts with OT.
That makes
it easier for people and filters to skip.

~ Guess what! You know those topics people learn to avoid in real life
because they cause arguments? Surprise! They cause arguments online,
too. Even though RCTN allows some Off Topic threads, "hot button"
topics
just tend to cause bad feelings. Most topics of this type have
their very
own newsgroups. Use them.

Never assume that everyone in the group is the same as you with
regard to
country, nationality, culture, subculture, education, financial status,
religious or spiritual background, political beliefs, etc. Sweeping
generalizations will likely get you into trouble.

What to do and what not to do if you see an online fight
--------------------------------------------------------

Unmoderated newsgroups are just that--unmoderated. This is both the
strength
and the weakness of newsgroups. People have the freedom to soar to new
heights. They also have the freedom to act very poorly. Fortunately, the
good usually makes it worth putting up with the occasional bad.

Fights can happen because of conflicts of opinion, the anonymity of the
computer screens, cultural misunderstandings, misreading of a post, or
someone
just having a bad day. These fights are not always bad for a newsgroup--it
depends on the group, the cause of the fight, and the course it takes.

Be aware that flaming (fighting) is normal in all of the tens of
thousands of
unmoderated newsgroups. Flaming follows very standard patterns. It
might be
a blow to the ego for a flamer on either side of any battle to realize how
utterly unoriginal his or her behavior is, but the complete
predictability of
it all makes for some great jokes...

Twelve Commandments of Flaming on the Internet
http://www.rider.edu/users/gru show/humor/comput/flaming.html
http://www.ionet.net/~ziegler/ humor/computer/flaming.txt

Flame Warriors
http://www.winternet.com/~mike lr/flame1.html

How many people does it take to change a light bulb in cyberspace?
http://www.skally.net/listowne r/humor.html
http://www.spiffo.co.uk/cyberb ulb.txt

The Lurkers Support Me in E-mail
http://www.velvet.com/barb/hum or/lurkers.html
http://scholar.chem.nyu.edu/~s hm/text/lurkers.html

Humor aside, when flaming starts, most observers really do *not* care who
started it or who is "in the right" or who gets the last word or who is the
better debater. All they see are a couple of people having the virtual
version of a screaming match in a public place. And the observers are
usually... unimpressed, to put it politely. Unimpressed equally with all
participants.

Things not to do:

~ Don't contribute to the flames.

~ Don't make lightly veiled comments in *other* threads about how badly
those other people are behaving. You've just spread the mess into new
threads. A bad move.

~ Don't make statements which are meant to sound dramatic but come across
as rather silly. Come to think of it, when it comes to flames, *most*
statements which are meant to sound dramatic come across as rather
silly.

Things to do:

~ If you think flames are taking over the group, make an on topic post
about something else. That makes the percentage of flame posts
smaller.

~ If you find that a particular thread bothers you, don't read it! Even
better, automatically filter it out if your newsreader will let
you. The
same goes if you find that a particular person's posts always
bother you.
As in any group of several thousand people, you'll probably find that
there are some you don't have the time or desire to deal with. So,
don't!

Check out the following site if you can't figure out how to use your
newsreader's filters. It has instructions for several programs.

Get Into That Bitbucket!!!!
http://www.impulse.net/~thebob /seanette/bitbucket.html

Trust me on this--occasional use of filters can improve your reading
experience on *any* newsgroup. With so many posts available each day,
save your precious time for the good stuff!

~ If you must participate, use email rather than posting to the
group. If
you feel a post is necessary, wait 24 hours before posting--if it
really
needs saying, a wait of 24 hours won't weaken your message. Such a wait
might even strengthen it, with an opportunity for a better written
statement.

Posts on newsgroups are seen by thousands of people. Posts are
archived
at WWW sites where search engines allow millions of other people to
retrieve them months and years later. Do you really want your
co-worker
or boss or acquaintance see what you wrote, three years from now? Ten
years from now?

Watch out for trolls and other ugly beasties!
---------------------------------------------

A troll is a post made specifically to get people riled up. A troll is
also a
person who makes this kind of post. If you see a troll, either filter it,
ignore it, or, if you *have* to respond, use email. The person making the
post *wants* a public response. That's the whole point of the exercise. It
gives the person a feeling of power.

The simplest form of trolling is when an unfamiliar person posts a wildly
inflammatory message.

A slightly more subtle form is when a person deliberately posts about a
topic
that people have strong feelings about. Invariably, other folks get
caught up
in taking sides, feeling that it is absolutely *vital* that they present
their
viewpoint. They get so focused on the topic that they can't see that
they're
being manipulated. If the arguing shows signs of dying down, sometimes a
troll will attempt to keep it going by posting from multiple accounts so
he or
she can "argue" on both sides.

Trolling can get even more subtle, involving several weeks or months of
planning and set up. But I'm not going to give lessons on how to do it.

So, is every inflammatory message or "hot button" post a troll? Absolutely
not! But the response to a troll and something that *looks* like a troll
should be about the same--ignore it or take it to email. Sometimes, it
really
*is* O.K. to stay silent. Even better, make an on topic post about
something
else. That makes the percentage of troll posts smaller and keeps them from
taking over all of the discussion.

If you want to make a complaint, try "postmaster" or "abuse" at the
originating site.

No, it is not O.K. to post your advertisement on RCTN!
------------------------------------------------------

Posting an advertisement in a newsgroup that doesn't want ads is bad
netiquette. The document "Advertising on Usenet: How To Do It, How Not
To Do
It" is posted regularly to news.announce.newusers. Many people on
Usenet can
tell of formerly lively and useful newsgroups which were taken over and made
useless by advertising.

Most newsreader software allows users to include a 4 line "signature" at the
end of every post. This signature can include an email address or a
quote or
a Web address (URL) or whatever else the person cares to add. Most
newsgroups
don't have a problem with a person's signature including a link to a
commercial site, as long as the signature is part of a real post.

The topic of advertising on RCTN has been discussed repeatedly. My
understanding of the general agreement is as follows...

People with a professional interest in the needlework business are *very*
welcome on the newsgroup. Readers enjoy hearing the inside scoop about a
design or magazine or Web site, and having someone answer a question when
they're in a unique position to do so is good. RCTN is proud of its
designers, writers, editors, and store owners.

That said, certain types of posts are not appropriate. Posts that say,
"Send
money and I'll sell you this product" are not appropriate. Posts that say,
"Come see the items I've posted for sale in the marketplace newsgroup or
a Web
auction site" are not appropriate. A regular, weekly announcement about a
business or web site is not appropriate. There is a newsgroup just for
these,
and RCTN isn't it. The group is rec.crafts.textiles.marketplace, and
you can
read more about it below.

Other types of posts are in a gray area, but seem acceptable to most people.
These include an occasional announcement by the site owner of a new web site
or significant change in a web site, an announcement by the designer of
a new
design, an announcement by an author of an article, and so on. If in doubt,
post it to rec.crafts.textiles.marketplace instead.

Ads and regular announcements belong in rec.crafts.textiles.marketplace.
That
newsgroup was formed in May, 1996 using the "official" creation process for
the "rec" groups. It passed 272 to 29.

The rec.crafts.textiles.marketplace charter and rationale are as follows:

NAME: rec.crafts.textiles.marketplace

CHARTER:
rec.crafts.textiles.marketplace is an unmoderated group for selling,
buying, trading, and "jobs offered/sought" postings related to
textiles and any of the textile arts. Announcements of textile and
textile arts business's web pages are also welcome. Individual,
one-time transactions are welcome in this group, as are commercial
advertisements. "Continuing" or repeat advertisements are subject
to the following restrictions:

1. Continuing/repeat ads must not be posted more often than once
per two week period.
2. Continuing/repeat ads must contain a Subject: line which is
identical to the original.
3. Continuing/repeat ads should include an expiration date which
must be no more than two weeks after the date of posting,
and/or
make use of the supercedes header.

Advertisers and ads which require lots of space, multiple postings
for individual products, or repeated postings, are strongly urged to
consider shorter, less frequently reposted, combination ads
directing
further respondents to email, web pages, mail, telephone, FAX, etc.,
instead, for further information. Postings about non-textile and
non-textile-arts related products, services and jobs are not welcome
in this group.

RATIONALE:
There has been a lot of discussion over the past year, in all the
textile hierarchy newsgroups, about appropriate places for posting
advertisements. There is no existing rec.crafts.textiles hierarchy
group in which marketplace posts are appropriate. All of the
existing rec.crafts.textiles.* newsgroups are for discussions only.
A group dedicated to textile-specific marketplace posts would
concentrate these posts for the benefit of those who are interested
and reduce them in inappropriate groups. The textiles sub-hierarchy
is the largest and one of the fastest growing hierarchies in
rec.crafts, consisting of five separate newsgroups. Discussion in
news.groups indicates that many users feel that such a large
sub-hierarchy deserves its own marketplace newsgroup and a traffic
analysis over three months (September, October, November, 1995)
indicates that there are enough textile ads to fill such a group.
The name of the proposed group is chosen to match the existing
rec.crafts.textiles.* and *.marketplace newsgroup naming
conventions.

That's all
----------

To describe the Internet and how to use it would take a book. In fact there
are dozens, if not hundreds, of books out there which do just that. Reading
one can take a lot of the mystery out of using the Internet.

Other newsgroups you may find to be of interest are rec.crafts.textiles.yarn
(for knitting, crocheting, spinning, weaving), rec.crafts.textiles.quilting,
rec.crafts.textiles.sewing, rec.crafts.textiles.machine-knit,
rec.crafts.textiles.misc, rec.crafts.textiles.marketplace (for advertising),
uk.rec.crafts (United Kingdom), and es.rec.labores (Spanish).

After all the serious "how to's" discussed above, I'd like to end with a
limerick...

Welcome to RCTN.
A fun place to visit, and when
You've questions to ask
'Bout a needlework task
You'll get a good answer or ten.

--
================================================== =========================
Kathleen Dyer "Sing as if no one were listening."
Counted Cross Stitch, Needlework and Stitchery Page
http://www.dnai.com/~kdyer/

Ads
  #2  
Old September 6th 05, 09:36 PM
Pat P
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Barbara Hass" wrote in message
...
I checked in today, and see that things are once again deteriorating on
rctn in many threads. Maybe it's time we posted the FAQ and reminded
everyone what this ng is all about! (And that does *not* include trashing
other people, even if you disagree with them - if you must do that, take it
to private email).


I see - self appointed Inspector Hass, is it? Get real!

Pat P


  #3  
Old September 6th 05, 10:05 PM
Barbara Hass
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Pat P wrote:
"Barbara Hass" wrote in message
...

I checked in today, and see that things are once again deteriorating on
rctn in many threads. Maybe it's time we posted the FAQ and reminded
everyone what this ng is all about! (And that does *not* include trashing
other people, even if you disagree with them - if you must do that, take it
to private email).



I see - self appointed Inspector Hass, is it? Get real!

Pat P


Been a bad day, Pat? No, I'm not a self-appointed inspector, just
someone who's tired of seeing all of the petty bickering here. Even
threads I was reading for info (thus not ignoring/deleting) have
dissintegrated. Life is bad enough with the hurricane and the gulf war,
now I can't even read what *used* to be my favorite ng. I realize we're
like a community, but at the same time when it gets to name-calling and
back-and-forth bickering between 2-3 people, maybe it's time *someone*
give a wake-up call that this is a group for people who have a love of
needlework in common, not a newsgroup for trashing people because their
views differ.

And since when is posting a netiquette FAQ, which, BTW, used to be
posted monthly here, being a self-appointed anything?

I lately have little patience for this crap after just burying a friend
at 30 from a heart attack, still consoling his inconsolable 31-year-old
widow, and sick of people who don't appreciate how good they really have
things. If y'all want to waste your time and energy bashing people on
the internet, it's your life to waste. I'm off to spend time with my
precious family and do some stitching. If this is the response a mere
faq posting gets, don't worry, it won't happen again, guess I'll
unsubscribe as so many others have. I have more important things to do
than read posts such as your response.

Barbara

(and it's not Inspector Hass, it's Dr. Hass Jacobus - if you're gonna be
nasty about it, at least get the name right!)

  #4  
Old September 6th 05, 10:20 PM
Lucretia Borgia
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 16:05:28 -0500, Barbara Hass
wrote:

Pat P wrote:
"Barbara Hass" wrote in message
...

I checked in today, and see that things are once again deteriorating on
rctn in many threads. Maybe it's time we posted the FAQ and reminded
everyone what this ng is all about! (And that does *not* include trashing
other people, even if you disagree with them - if you must do that, take it
to private email).



I see - self appointed Inspector Hass, is it? Get real!

Pat P


Been a bad day, Pat? No, I'm not a self-appointed inspector, just
someone who's tired of seeing all of the petty bickering here. Even
threads I was reading for info (thus not ignoring/deleting) have
dissintegrated. Life is bad enough with the hurricane and the gulf war,
now I can't even read what *used* to be my favorite ng. I realize we're
like a community, but at the same time when it gets to name-calling and
back-and-forth bickering between 2-3 people, maybe it's time *someone*
give a wake-up call that this is a group for people who have a love of
needlework in common, not a newsgroup for trashing people because their
views differ.

And since when is posting a netiquette FAQ, which, BTW, used to be
posted monthly here, being a self-appointed anything?

I lately have little patience for this crap after just burying a friend
at 30 from a heart attack, still consoling his inconsolable 31-year-old
widow, and sick of people who don't appreciate how good they really have
things. If y'all want to waste your time and energy bashing people on
the internet, it's your life to waste. I'm off to spend time with my
precious family and do some stitching. If this is the response a mere
faq posting gets, don't worry, it won't happen again, guess I'll
unsubscribe as so many others have. I have more important things to do
than read posts such as your response.

Barbara

(and it's not Inspector Hass, it's Dr. Hass Jacobus - if you're gonna be
nasty about it, at least get the name right!)


You obviously did not get the connotation.

I don't think you appreciate how your original post sounded, it was
prissy at best, supercilious at worst and definitely a talk down to
the peasants around here.
  #5  
Old September 6th 05, 10:46 PM
Dianne Lewandowski
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I see - self appointed Inspector Hass, is it? Get real!

Pat P


Lucretia Borgia wrote:
You obviously did not get the connotation.

I don't think you appreciate how your original post sounded, it was
prissy at best, supercilious at worst and definitely a talk down to
the peasants around here.


Obviously that's the view of the two of you. However, I thought
Barbara's post was timely. So, as you can see, there are plenty of
view-points to consider, and your two points of view are not necessarily
the majority nor the most "righteous."
Dianne
--
"The Journal of Needlework" - The E-zine for All Needleworkers
http://journal.heritageshoppe.com

  #6  
Old September 6th 05, 10:51 PM
Lucretia Borgia
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 16:46:13 -0500, Dianne Lewandowski
wrote:

I see - self appointed Inspector Hass, is it? Get real!

Pat P


Lucretia Borgia wrote:
You obviously did not get the connotation.

I don't think you appreciate how your original post sounded, it was
prissy at best, supercilious at worst and definitely a talk down to
the peasants around here.


Obviously that's the view of the two of you. However, I thought
Barbara's post was timely. So, as you can see, there are plenty of
view-points to consider, and your two points of view are not necessarily
the majority nor the most "righteous."
Dianne


No, indeed but neither is Barbaras.
  #7  
Old September 6th 05, 11:04 PM
Dawne Peterson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I lately have little patience for this crap after just burying a friend
at 30 from a heart attack, still consoling his inconsolable 31-year-old
widow, and sick of people who don't appreciate how good they really have
things. If y'all want to waste your time and energy bashing people on
the internet, it's your life to waste.


Barbara
I am so sorry for the loss of your friend. There are no satisfactory
answers, no real consolation--and it must be very hard to try. I was
having a "why me" day myself, and read your post, and thanked god that a
friend I was missing dearly until that reading was alive, rather than feel
sorry for myself that he is 300 km away.
Dawne


  #8  
Old September 7th 05, 12:08 AM
Pat P
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Lucretia Borgia" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 16:05:28 -0500, Barbara Hass
wrote:

Pat P wrote:
"Barbara Hass" wrote in message
...

I checked in today, and see that things are once again deteriorating on
rctn in many threads. Maybe it's time we posted the FAQ and reminded
everyone what this ng is all about! (And that does *not* include
trashing
other people, even if you disagree with them - if you must do that, take
it
to private email).


I see - self appointed Inspector Hass, is it? Get real!

Pat P


Been a bad day, Pat? No, I'm not a self-appointed inspector, just
someone who's tired of seeing all of the petty bickering here. Even
threads I was reading for info (thus not ignoring/deleting) have
dissintegrated. Life is bad enough with the hurricane and the gulf war,
now I can't even read what *used* to be my favorite ng. I realize we're
like a community, but at the same time when it gets to name-calling and
back-and-forth bickering between 2-3 people, maybe it's time *someone*
give a wake-up call that this is a group for people who have a love of
needlework in common, not a newsgroup for trashing people because their
views differ.

And since when is posting a netiquette FAQ, which, BTW, used to be
posted monthly here, being a self-appointed anything?

I lately have little patience for this crap after just burying a friend
at 30 from a heart attack, still consoling his inconsolable 31-year-old
widow, and sick of people who don't appreciate how good they really have
things. If y'all want to waste your time and energy bashing people on
the internet, it's your life to waste. I'm off to spend time with my
precious family and do some stitching. If this is the response a mere
faq posting gets, don't worry, it won't happen again, guess I'll
unsubscribe as so many others have. I have more important things to do
than read posts such as your response.

Barbara


Sorry for your bad time but maybe it`s not the time for you to be posting.
You should certainly do what most of us do - just delete the worrisome
threads and posters - Heaven alone knows it`s simple enough. I certainly
wasn`t having a bad day - in fact I`ve had a fantastic week!

(and it's not Inspector Hass, it's Dr. Hass Jacobus - if you're gonna be
nasty about it, at least get the name right!)


Thought it was more like Rudolph Hess, as a matter of fact! LOL!

Pat P

You obviously did not get the connotation.


Should I?

I don't think you appreciate how your original post sounded, it was
prissy at best, supercilious at worst and definitely a talk down to
the peasants around here.



  #9  
Old September 7th 05, 12:09 AM
Pat P
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Dianne Lewandowski" wrote in message
...
I see - self appointed Inspector Hass, is it? Get real!

Pat P


Lucretia Borgia wrote:
You obviously did not get the connotation. I don't think you appreciate
how your original post sounded, it was
prissy at best, supercilious at worst and definitely a talk down to
the peasants around here.


Obviously that's the view of the two of you. However, I thought Barbara's
post was timely. So, as you can see, there are plenty of view-points to
consider, and your two points of view are not necessarily the majority nor
the most "righteous."
Dianne



Oh yes, Dianne, there ARE plenty of viewpoints to consider - including ours.

Pat P

--
"The Journal of Needlework" - The E-zine for All Needleworkers
http://journal.heritageshoppe.com



  #10  
Old September 7th 05, 01:53 AM
Jaenne Bonner
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I am grateful to finally read this. I have learned from it and will apply it
for future posts. Thank you.

Jaenne

--
Why is a raven like a writing desk?
(Answer: There's a "b" in both and an "n" in neither)
www.jaenne.com

"Barbara Hass" wrote in message
...
I checked in today, and see that things are once again deteriorating on
rctn in many threads. Maybe it's time we posted the FAQ and reminded
everyone what this ng is all about! (And that does *not* include trashing
other people, even if you disagree with them - if you must do that, take it
to private email).

This was the most recent post I could find.
Has anyone taken over on the faq archive since Kathy left?

Barbara HJ
---------------


Kathleen M. Dyer Nov 24 2002, 7:49 pm show options
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.textiles.needlework
Followup-To: rec.crafts.textiles.needlework
From: (Kathleen M. Dyer) - Find messages by this author
Date: 25 Nov 2002 00:48:15 GMT
Local: Sun, Nov 24 2002 7:48 pm
Subject: RCTN - What you need to know
Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original |
Report Abuse

Posted-By: auto-faq 3.3 beta (Perl 5.006)

What You Need to Know About
REC.CRAFTS.TEXTILES.NEEDLEWORK

Updated June 24, 2002
Kathleen M. Dyer

What is this rec.crafts.textiles.needlework, anyway?
----------------------------------------------------

Rec.crafts.textiles.needlework (RCTN) is an unmoderated Usenet newsgroup.
It
was formed in September, 1994, after a vote to split the old
rec.crafts.textiles group into several new groups.

The charter:
This group will be for discussions about needlework, as defined by 'any
form of decorative stitching done by hand'. Included will be all
variations of stitchery: stamped embroidery, counted thread stitching,
and
canvas work, including needlepoint. Discussion might cover different
kinds
of canvases and fabric grounds, flosses, needles and other supplies,
pattern design, marking, and finishing etc.

RCTN is unmoderated, as are most other newsgroups. Unmoderated means that
no
one person is in charge, and that anyone may post. Does this mean that
anything goes? No. The rules of "netiquette" apply.

What rules? Who made them up? Why should I follow them?
---------------------------------------------------------

Netiquette just means good Internet manners. Netiquette can be summed up
as:

~ Learn the way things are done and why they're done that way.

~ Don't abuse other people's resources.

~ Never say anything online to someone that you wouldn't be willing to
say
to that person's face.

Most of the "rules" of RCTN weren't invented here. They're the standard
in
tens of thousands of Usenet groups.

Always remember, RCTN is a Usenet newsgroup. It is not a Web site. It is
not
an email list. Usenet, the Web, and email all use the Internet to
transmit
information, but that's about all they have in common.

If you don't know how Usenet works, netiquette can seem arbitrary and
strange.
But if you learn a little bit about it, those rules start to make a lot of
sense. They're all about sharing with other people and not wasting
resources--a good thing to do just about anywhere.

So how does Usenet work?
------------------------

Believe it or not, nobody is officially in charge of Usenet! A small
number
of people have more power than others, but even that power is only granted
to
them because people choose to do so.

Each Internet Service Provider (ISP) decides for itself if it will carry
newsgroups, and if so which of the tens of thousands of newsgroups it is
going
to carry.

There is no central location where articles are stored. *Each* ISP stores
a
copy of *every* article in *every* newsgroup it carries for its own users
to
read.

An ISP regularly checks the stream of posts flowing past, finds any it
hasn't
seen before, and stores copies of those. Also, the ISP throws copies of
articles posted by its own users into the flood. Those articles
eventually
get copied by *all* the other ISPs that carry those newsgroups.

Since each ISP stores a copy of every article in every newsgroup it
carries, a
lot of disk space is used. Each ISP decides when to delete old articles
on
its disks to make room for new ones. That's called the "expire time." If
the
disks fill up quickly, the expire time gets shorter.

So, because of the way it all works, some interesting things happen.

~ Transferring articles from site to site isn't instantaneous, so you
may
see a reply before you see the original post. Or you might not
receive
exactly the same posts as someone who uses a different Internet
provider.
Or you may see all the same posts, but in a different order.

~ Massive abuses of the system on one newsgroup can impact people who
don't
even read that newsgroup!

But...but...how can that possibly work?
---------------------------------------

Since no one is in charge of the big system or the unmoderated newsgroups,
how
does it keep working?!

It keeps working because people have voluntarily agreed to follow a set of
rules that keep it working. Usenet has been around since at least 1979.
After
countless millions of messages in tens of thousands of newsgroups, people
have
a pretty good idea of what needs to be done to keep it all going. They
also
have a good idea of the kinds of behavior that make the system start to
crack.
That mass of experience is the source of the rules of netiquette.

In addition to the common rules, each newsgroup has its own culture and
accepted practices. These are not "official" rules, but ignoring them
*will*
cause you problems. Before posting to an unfamiliar newsgroup, read as
many
of the posts as possible. See if the group has a FAQ (Frequently Asked
Questions document) and if so, read it. The odds are good that any
newsgroup
which has been around for more than a few months has a FAQ. The
expectation
in virtually *all* of the 40,000+ newsgroups is that if someone decides to
participate, the least he or she can do is spend a little time learning
how
the group works.

In many newsgroups, if you violate netiquette in some way, you will
receive
some extremely unpleasant email and posts in response. ("Unpleasant" as
in
commentary on one's intelligence, ancestry and romantic proclivities
expressed
in swear words one may never have seen or heard before.) Some groups are
more
gentle toward "newbies", simply informing them of the group's and Usenet's
standards.

So, now I've probably terrified you to the point that you'll never post
anything anywhere. :-)

Don't be scared! Read the rest of this document, try to get a feel for
the
way things work, use common sense, and be willing to admit that you're
still
learning your way around.

If you want to learn more about newsgroups and netiquette, go to these Web
sites:
http://www.albion.com/netiquet te/
http://www.faqs.org/usenet/

You can also subscribe to the "news.newusers.questions" group and the
"news.announce.newusers" group.

For questions about missing articles, slow news, or problems with news
reading
software, the best place to start looking for help is with your own
Internet
Service Provider.

There are places on the Internet that archive newsgroup discussions. One
of
these is Google http://groups.google.com/.

Definitions
-----------

A post and the follow up posts are a "thread". The term "thread" is used
on
all newsgroups, but it is particularly appropriate for RCTN.

Some of the abbreviations people commonly use on RCTN a

NP - needlepoint
OT - Off topic, a post that isn't directly about needlework
S.E.X. - Stash Enhancement eXperience (adding things to your "stash").
UFO - UnFinished Object, a project that has been started but not yet
finished.
XS - cross stitch

See "RCTN Abbreviations" for a longer list. It is available at
http://www.Aion-Needlecrafts.c o.uk/info/abbrev.htm.

Things you need to know about posting
-------------------------------------

Don't post in HTML format!

~ Some ISPs filter out HTML posts, so the people using those ISPs will
never see your posts.

~ Some people use newsreaders that flag an HTML post as an attachment.
Since unknown attachments can be dangerous or annoying (viruses,
worms,
Trojan horses), many people will routinely delete these posts
without
opening them. Again, your post goes unseen.

~ Many newsreaders cannot process HTML, so people using these
newsreaders
see all the HTML tags. This makes the post very difficult to read.
Not
too surprisingly, people don't like to waste their online time
deciphering gibberish, and they delete the HTML posts without
reading
them. Once more, your post goes unseen.

~ Compared to a plain text post, an HTML post takes up more disk space
at
every single ISP and it takes longer to download. So will *one*
little
HTML post make that much of a difference in the flood that is
Usenet?
No! It's simply a matter of respect for other people's time and
resources.

Don't post pictures, sounds or other binary files! Binary files should
not be
posted to discussion-only newsgroups.

~ Binaries are usually much larger than text files and take much
longer to
download. An unexpected binary file can be a very unpleasant
surprise
to someone who pays for phone connection time or internet access
time by
the minute.

~ Binary files take much more space on each Internet Service
Provider's
disks, so some ISPs won't carry binary-only groups. If a
discussion-only newsgroup starts to get too many binary files, it
may be
labeled as a "hidden binary" group and some ISPs may stop carrying
it.
So *other* people who had nothing to do with posting the binaries
could
lose their access to the newsgroup!

~ Binary files can "break" or "hang" some newsreaders. A binary file
can
force a person to have to restart their newsreader or even their
computer.

Watch your quotes. Don't quote too much. Don't quote too little.

When you post a followup to a post, quote *only* what is needed from
the
original. But be careful not to get carried away and edit things
too
much. Don't delete the line that shows the name and email address
of
the person you are quoting. If there are nested quotes, be certain
that
each is attributed to the correct person.

The standard in Usenet newsgroups and mailing lists is to put your
reply
after any quoted material. RCTN doesn't worry about that particular
bit
of netiquette very much. However, even if you put your answer
before
any quoted material, you *still* should trim the quote as much as
possible. Excessive quoting is bad netiquette, no matter where the
quotes go. It wastes people's time, the article takes longer to
download, and the article takes up more disk space at every Internet
Service Provider.

Watch your line lengths.

The line length in anything you post should be 80 characters or less.
Anything longer and others may not be able to see the ends or may have
the
lines wrap oddly. In fact, 80 is really too long because some
allowance
should be made for people quoting your post. A line length of about
72
usually works well.

POSTING IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS IS CONSIDERED TO BE SHOUTING.

Let's talk!
-----------

~ Never say anything online that you wouldn't be willing to say to the
person's face. Never forget there are real people on the receiving
end.

~ People can't see your face or hear your tone of voice in a post, so
jokes and sarcasm can be missed. For this reason, some people use
smilies
to show they are joking. :-) ;-)

~ "Lurking" is reading a newsgroup without posting to it. There is no
rule
about how or when to delurk. Some people choose to delurk with an
introductory post. Others jump in with a question or comment.

~ Do *not* offer to photocopy or scan a chart for someone else, or ask
someone else to copy a chart for you. This is a violation of
copyright.

~ If you start a new topic, make the title as descriptive as possible.
Suppose you are looking for a supplier of counted cross stitch charts
of
frogs. You could title the post "Looking for charts", but it would be
better to call it "XS - looking for frog charts".

~ If there's an on topic subject you are interested in and no one is
discussing it, start the discussion yourself. Don't sit around
waiting
for someone else to do it. You want to talk about it, so probably
other
people do as well. And posting a complaint about how no one is
discussing
your favorite subject when *you* haven't even posted about it yourself
just looks silly.

~ If you cause the topic of a thread to change, change the title so
people
can tell before reading that it is no longer about losing needles and
has
become a discussion about magnets swallowed by cows.

~ Email vs. posting: the general rule of thumb is that if the message is
something that only one person or a very small number would be
interested
in, use email. If it may be of general interest (sharing, silliness,
etc.
can be of general interest), then post.

~ Posting email someone has sent to you without that person's permission
is
very poor netiquette.

~ You just heard of a horrible computer virus or scary real world
danger,
and you feel panicked and you know you must immediately email everyone
in
your address book and post about it to every newsgroup you read
because
after all everyone is in danger and it's awful and... (pause to gulp
for
air.) Stop. Take a deep breath. It's O.K. Now, check to make sure
it
isn't a hoax. You can do this by checking at sites such as:

"Hoaxbusters" http://hoaxbusters.ciac.org/
"Hoax Warnings" http://www.datafellows.com/new
s/hoax/
"Computer Virus Myths " http://www.kumite.com/myths/
"Urban Legends Reference Pages" http://www.snopes2.com/

Sometimes these warnings are very real, but a great many are well
known
hoaxes.

~ Test messages should be sent to a test newsgroup. For example,
misc.test
for general testing, and ba.test for the San Francisco Bay area.

~ It isn't wise to post your home address on a newsgroup. It's like
putting
the address on a large billboard beside a major highway.

~ RCTN allows a certain amount of Off Topic (posts that aren't directly
about needlework) conversation. If you start or reply to an Off Topic
thread, please make sure that the subject line starts with OT. That
makes
it easier for people and filters to skip.

~ Guess what! You know those topics people learn to avoid in real life
because they cause arguments? Surprise! They cause arguments online,
too. Even though RCTN allows some Off Topic threads, "hot button"
topics
just tend to cause bad feelings. Most topics of this type have their
very
own newsgroups. Use them.

Never assume that everyone in the group is the same as you with regard
to
country, nationality, culture, subculture, education, financial
status,
religious or spiritual background, political beliefs, etc. Sweeping
generalizations will likely get you into trouble.

What to do and what not to do if you see an online fight
--------------------------------------------------------

Unmoderated newsgroups are just that--unmoderated. This is both the
strength
and the weakness of newsgroups. People have the freedom to soar to new
heights. They also have the freedom to act very poorly. Fortunately, the
good usually makes it worth putting up with the occasional bad.

Fights can happen because of conflicts of opinion, the anonymity of the
computer screens, cultural misunderstandings, misreading of a post, or
someone
just having a bad day. These fights are not always bad for a
newsgroup--it
depends on the group, the cause of the fight, and the course it takes.

Be aware that flaming (fighting) is normal in all of the tens of thousands
of
unmoderated newsgroups. Flaming follows very standard patterns. It might
be
a blow to the ego for a flamer on either side of any battle to realize how
utterly unoriginal his or her behavior is, but the complete predictability
of
it all makes for some great jokes...

Twelve Commandments of Flaming on the Internet
http://www.rider.edu/users/gru show/humor/comput/flaming.html
http://www.ionet.net/~ziegler/ humor/computer/flaming.txt

Flame Warriors
http://www.winternet.com/~mike lr/flame1.html

How many people does it take to change a light bulb in cyberspace?
http://www.skally.net/listowne r/humor.html
http://www.spiffo.co.uk/cyberb ulb.txt

The Lurkers Support Me in E-mail
http://www.velvet.com/barb/hum or/lurkers.html
http://scholar.chem.nyu.edu/~s hm/text/lurkers.html

Humor aside, when flaming starts, most observers really do *not* care who
started it or who is "in the right" or who gets the last word or who is
the
better debater. All they see are a couple of people having the virtual
version of a screaming match in a public place. And the observers are
usually... unimpressed, to put it politely. Unimpressed equally with all
participants.

Things not to do:

~ Don't contribute to the flames.

~ Don't make lightly veiled comments in *other* threads about how badly
those other people are behaving. You've just spread the mess into new
threads. A bad move.

~ Don't make statements which are meant to sound dramatic but come
across
as rather silly. Come to think of it, when it comes to flames, *most*
statements which are meant to sound dramatic come across as rather
silly.

Things to do:

~ If you think flames are taking over the group, make an on topic post
about something else. That makes the percentage of flame posts
smaller.

~ If you find that a particular thread bothers you, don't read it! Even
better, automatically filter it out if your newsreader will let you.
The
same goes if you find that a particular person's posts always bother
you.
As in any group of several thousand people, you'll probably find that
there are some you don't have the time or desire to deal with. So,
don't!

Check out the following site if you can't figure out how to use your
newsreader's filters. It has instructions for several programs.

Get Into That Bitbucket!!!!
http://www.impulse.net/~thebob /seanette/bitbucket.html

Trust me on this--occasional use of filters can improve your reading
experience on *any* newsgroup. With so many posts available each day,
save your precious time for the good stuff!

~ If you must participate, use email rather than posting to the group.
If
you feel a post is necessary, wait 24 hours before posting--if it
really
needs saying, a wait of 24 hours won't weaken your message. Such a
wait
might even strengthen it, with an opportunity for a better written
statement.

Posts on newsgroups are seen by thousands of people. Posts are
archived
at WWW sites where search engines allow millions of other people to
retrieve them months and years later. Do you really want your
co-worker
or boss or acquaintance see what you wrote, three years from now? Ten
years from now?

Watch out for trolls and other ugly beasties!
---------------------------------------------

A troll is a post made specifically to get people riled up. A troll is
also a
person who makes this kind of post. If you see a troll, either filter it,
ignore it, or, if you *have* to respond, use email. The person making the
post *wants* a public response. That's the whole point of the exercise.
It
gives the person a feeling of power.

The simplest form of trolling is when an unfamiliar person posts a wildly
inflammatory message.

A slightly more subtle form is when a person deliberately posts about a
topic
that people have strong feelings about. Invariably, other folks get
caught up
in taking sides, feeling that it is absolutely *vital* that they present
their
viewpoint. They get so focused on the topic that they can't see that
they're
being manipulated. If the arguing shows signs of dying down, sometimes a
troll will attempt to keep it going by posting from multiple accounts so
he or
she can "argue" on both sides.

Trolling can get even more subtle, involving several weeks or months of
planning and set up. But I'm not going to give lessons on how to do it.

So, is every inflammatory message or "hot button" post a troll?
Absolutely
not! But the response to a troll and something that *looks* like a troll
should be about the same--ignore it or take it to email. Sometimes, it
really
*is* O.K. to stay silent. Even better, make an on topic post about
something
else. That makes the percentage of troll posts smaller and keeps them
from
taking over all of the discussion.

If you want to make a complaint, try "postmaster" or "abuse" at the
originating site.

No, it is not O.K. to post your advertisement on RCTN!
------------------------------------------------------

Posting an advertisement in a newsgroup that doesn't want ads is bad
netiquette. The document "Advertising on Usenet: How To Do It, How Not To
Do
It" is posted regularly to news.announce.newusers. Many people on Usenet
can
tell of formerly lively and useful newsgroups which were taken over and
made
useless by advertising.

Most newsreader software allows users to include a 4 line "signature" at
the
end of every post. This signature can include an email address or a quote
or
a Web address (URL) or whatever else the person cares to add. Most
newsgroups
don't have a problem with a person's signature including a link to a
commercial site, as long as the signature is part of a real post.

The topic of advertising on RCTN has been discussed repeatedly. My
understanding of the general agreement is as follows...

People with a professional interest in the needlework business are *very*
welcome on the newsgroup. Readers enjoy hearing the inside scoop about a
design or magazine or Web site, and having someone answer a question when
they're in a unique position to do so is good. RCTN is proud of its
designers, writers, editors, and store owners.

That said, certain types of posts are not appropriate. Posts that say,
"Send
money and I'll sell you this product" are not appropriate. Posts that
say,
"Come see the items I've posted for sale in the marketplace newsgroup or a
Web
auction site" are not appropriate. A regular, weekly announcement about a
business or web site is not appropriate. There is a newsgroup just for
these,
and RCTN isn't it. The group is rec.crafts.textiles.marketplace, and you
can
read more about it below.

Other types of posts are in a gray area, but seem acceptable to most
people.
These include an occasional announcement by the site owner of a new web
site
or significant change in a web site, an announcement by the designer of a
new
design, an announcement by an author of an article, and so on. If in
doubt,
post it to rec.crafts.textiles.marketplace instead.

Ads and regular announcements belong in rec.crafts.textiles.marketplace.
That
newsgroup was formed in May, 1996 using the "official" creation process
for
the "rec" groups. It passed 272 to 29.

The rec.crafts.textiles.marketplace charter and rationale are as
follows:

NAME: rec.crafts.textiles.marketplace

CHARTER:
rec.crafts.textiles.marketplace is an unmoderated group for
selling,
buying, trading, and "jobs offered/sought" postings related to
textiles and any of the textile arts. Announcements of textile and
textile arts business's web pages are also welcome. Individual,
one-time transactions are welcome in this group, as are commercial
advertisements. "Continuing" or repeat advertisements are subject
to the following restrictions:

1. Continuing/repeat ads must not be posted more often than once
per two week period.
2. Continuing/repeat ads must contain a Subject: line which is
identical to the original.
3. Continuing/repeat ads should include an expiration date which
must be no more than two weeks after the date of posting,
and/or
make use of the supercedes header.

Advertisers and ads which require lots of space, multiple postings
for individual products, or repeated postings, are strongly urged
to
consider shorter, less frequently reposted, combination ads
directing
further respondents to email, web pages, mail, telephone, FAX,
etc.,
instead, for further information. Postings about non-textile and
non-textile-arts related products, services and jobs are not
welcome
in this group.

RATIONALE:
There has been a lot of discussion over the past year, in all the
textile hierarchy newsgroups, about appropriate places for posting
advertisements. There is no existing rec.crafts.textiles hierarchy
group in which marketplace posts are appropriate. All of the
existing rec.crafts.textiles.* newsgroups are for discussions only.
A group dedicated to textile-specific marketplace posts would
concentrate these posts for the benefit of those who are interested
and reduce them in inappropriate groups. The textiles
sub-hierarchy
is the largest and one of the fastest growing hierarchies in
rec.crafts, consisting of five separate newsgroups. Discussion in
news.groups indicates that many users feel that such a large
sub-hierarchy deserves its own marketplace newsgroup and a traffic
analysis over three months (September, October, November, 1995)
indicates that there are enough textile ads to fill such a group.
The name of the proposed group is chosen to match the existing
rec.crafts.textiles.* and *.marketplace newsgroup naming
conventions.

That's all
----------

To describe the Internet and how to use it would take a book. In fact
there
are dozens, if not hundreds, of books out there which do just that.
Reading
one can take a lot of the mystery out of using the Internet.

Other newsgroups you may find to be of interest are
rec.crafts.textiles.yarn
(for knitting, crocheting, spinning, weaving),
rec.crafts.textiles.quilting,
rec.crafts.textiles.sewing, rec.crafts.textiles.machine-knit,
rec.crafts.textiles.misc, rec.crafts.textiles.marketplace (for
advertising),
uk.rec.crafts (United Kingdom), and es.rec.labores (Spanish).

After all the serious "how to's" discussed above, I'd like to end with a
limerick...

Welcome to RCTN.
A fun place to visit, and when
You've questions to ask
'Bout a needlework task
You'll get a good answer or ten.

--
================================================== =========================
Kathleen Dyer "Sing as if no one were listening."
Counted Cross Stitch, Needlework and Stitchery Page
http://www.dnai.com/~kdyer/



 




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