A crafts forum. CraftBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » CraftBanter forum » Craft related newsgroups » Jewelry
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

UK specific: What is a hallmark?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old May 2nd 05, 03:44 AM
Ted Frater
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default UK specific: What is a hallmark?

mbstevens wrote:
Jason L wrote:

http://www.thegoldsmiths.co.uk/assay...thallmarks.htm

Yes. This has always amazed me.

"The Act is built around the principle of description,
where it is an offence for any person to apply to an
unhallmarked article a description indicating that it is
wholly or partly made of gold, silver or platinum."

If an object if *in fact* made made of a substance, it
should be basic freedom of speech to describe it as such.
I can understand legislating against fraud, but not
against fact.

And, most of those hallmarks are ugly, old fashioned
designs that I wouldn't want cluttering up my work.

"Breaches of the Act carry stiff sentences (up to 10
years' imprisonment.)"

...and that is just excessive as hell.
I don't know the history of this law -- is it the Guilds
that have such a choke-hold on the legislature?


Regrettably there have always been and still are folks that describe
the articles there offering for sale as being made of precious metal
when "IN FACT" there not.
these folks are only interested in cheating people
So the guilds decided to intervene and insist that they would test and
mark every item offered for sale within the rules of weight etc, as
being genuinely up to the standards defined..
Would you like to be cheated?
Im sure not.
Its a safeguard that has worked for centuries in favour of the
customer as well as the maker.
As an after thought,
With freedom comes responsibility, cheats abuse the freedom they enjoy
by not accepting the responsibility that goes with the freedom..
Ted Frater.

Ads
  #2  
Old May 2nd 05, 03:31 PM
mbstevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Ted Frater wrote:

mbstevens wrote:
Jason L wrote:


http://www.thegoldsmiths.co.uk/assay...thallmarks.htm

Yes. This has always amazed me.

"The Act is built around the principle of description,
where it is an offense for any person to apply to an
unhallmarked article a description indicating that it
is wholly or partly made of gold, silver or platinum."

If an object if *in fact* made made of a substance, it
should be basic freedom of speech to describe it as
such. I can understand legislating against fraud, but
not against fact.

And, most of those hallmarks are ugly, old fashioned
designs that I wouldn't want cluttering up my work.

"Breaches of the Act carry stiff sentences (up to 10
years' imprisonment.)"

...and that is just excessive as hell.
I don't know the history of this law -- is it the
Guilds that have such a choke-hold on the legislature?


Regrettably there have always been and still are folks
that describe
the articles there offering for sale as being made of
precious metal
when "IN FACT" there not.


Then punish fraud as fraud -- don't make it illegal to
say a thing contains a metal if it does contain that
metal.

these folks are only interested in cheating people
So the guilds decided to intervene and insist that they
would test and mark every item offered for sale within
the rules of weight etc, as being genuinely up to the
standards defined..
Would you like to be cheated?
I am sure not.


And you think restricting basic rights to free speech
is a lesser wrong? *TEN YEARS* in the pokey for saying
your artwork has precious metal in it when it DOES in fact
have it?

A little ugly stamp is going to stop fraud?
Doubtful. It more likely just reinforces the powers of
Guild members.

Its a safeguard that has worked for centuries in
favour of the
customer as well as the maker.


Other countries seem to get along fine without it.

As an after thought,
With freedom comes responsibility,


Individuals take responsibility. This laws takes
responsibility away from individuals.

cheats abuse the
freedom they enjoy by not accepting the responsibility
that goes with the freedom.. Ted Frater.


So, punish for fraud. Do not force jewelers to put
those *butt-ugly* little stamps on articles that are
intended to be *beautiful.*

These kinds of laws are on the books not really to protect
individuals but to protect organizations. It happens
everywhere. The cattle barons here in Texas have pushed
through a law protecting locally grown *beef* from
slander. It's all just to be ridiculed.



  #3  
Old May 3rd 05, 04:23 AM
William Black
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"mbstevens" wrote in message
news

And you think restricting basic rights to free speech
is a lesser wrong? *TEN YEARS* in the pokey for saying
your artwork has precious metal in it when it DOES in fact
have it?


So don't say it.

Say 'I'm an artist, the medium may or may not be precious in its own right,
but I'm above hallmarks.

See what happens...

See how much you sell as well...

A little ugly stamp is going to stop fraud?
Doubtful. It more likely just reinforces the powers of
Guild members.


What guild, anyone can buy a hallmark.

Other countries seem to get along fine without it.


Nope, not these days, I think the USA is just about the only major country
without a marking system. Of course some countries (Italy springs to mind)
have problems, but they all mark...


cheats abuse the
freedom they enjoy by not accepting the responsibility
that goes with the freedom.. Ted Frater.


So, punish for fraud. Do not force jewelers to put
those *butt-ugly* little stamps on articles that are
intended to be *beautiful.*


Jewellers don't.

You send it away to be stamped.

These kinds of laws are on the books not really to protect
individuals but to protect organizations. It happens
everywhere. The cattle barons here in Texas have pushed
through a law protecting locally grown *beef* from
slander. It's all just to be ridiculed.


Ah...

You're from Texas...

Sorry...

--
William Black

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe
Barbeques on fire by chalets past the headland
I've watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off Newborough
All this will pass like ice-cream on the beach
Time for tea



  #4  
Old May 3rd 05, 04:23 AM
CheshireCat
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi,
I'm only a jewellery buyer but afaik a hallmark is the multiple marks made
by a uk assay office.
If you want to provide an honest description just say they are "stamped 375"
which you believe means they are 9K gold.

Do make sure you're know they're gold. I bought a "9k" necklace from ebay
recently which only had markings on the lobster clasp. These clasps can be
picked up for a few pounds from the www. There were no other markings on
the chain itself. The clasp was newer than the chain and the chain plating
was badly worn so that you could see pitted brass coloured metal beneath.
No way was it solid. I sent it back.
Other chains I own usually have markings on the first chain/jump ring to
indicate their karat content.


  #5  
Old May 3rd 05, 04:23 AM
CheshireCat
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

And, most of those hallmarks are ugly, old fashioned
designs that I wouldn't want cluttering up my work.


no, we have a beautiful system )


  #6  
Old May 3rd 05, 08:53 AM
Chris Hackett
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


No. The worshipful society of goldsmiths may be intimately involved with

it all, but if
I recall my history (feel free to correct me, you brits) , it was the

Royalty itself,
somewhere around the 12th century


The origin dates back to 1300 under Edward 1 when he used
the Leopard's head as a mark.

Chris


  #7  
Old May 4th 05, 03:26 AM
CheshireCat
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

But, the vast majority of the public don't buy the exclusive jewellery items
you talk about.
If you buy something of mixed metals like mokume then you'd be unlikely to
melt it down with a quantity of scrap gold. A hallmark at least shows the
whole item shows a certain purity and they're usually placed on non visible
surfaces.
Expensive, exclusive items are likely to pass onwards into history. They're
often accompanied by other paperwork to prove their ancestry.
Maybe there's different rules for jewellery made from multiple metals,
perhaps hallmarks aren't allowed for these pieces as they're not pure
enough.

extract from http://www.thegoldsmiths.co.uk/assay...ghallmaked.htm

ARTICLES OF TWO OR MORE PRECIOUS METALS
The hallmark applied is that of the least precious metal, which must be more
than 50% of the weight of the article. Whenever possible, the fineness mark
of the more precious metal is added.

a.. Platinum is more precious than gold, and silver is the least precious.
Platinum articles with less than 50% by weight of yellow 750 gold are
hallmarked as platinum.
b.. 750 white gold snaps, ear-ring fastening pins are permitted on
platinum articles.
c.. Platinum and 750 white gold articles are hallmarked as 750 gold.
ARTICLES MADE OF PRECIOUS METALS AND OTHER MATERIALS
Small, working base metal parts are permitted. Regulations on the use of
base metals are made from time to time by the British Hallmarking Council.

Authorised parts in base metal must either be clearly distinguishable in
colour from the precious metal or struck with the word "METAL" .

Base metals such as stainless steel are not considered to be distinguishable
from silver, white gold or platinum.


  #8  
Old May 4th 05, 03:26 AM
William Black
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Chris Hackett" wrote in message
...

No. The worshipful society of goldsmiths may be intimately involved

with
it all, but if
I recall my history (feel free to correct me, you brits) , it was the

Royalty itself,
somewhere around the 12th century


The origin dates back to 1300 under Edward 1 when he used
the Leopard's head as a mark.


But these didn't actually differentiate between metals.

For example some fifteenth century silver gilt vessels owned by York Minster
(made in William Snawsel's workshops) were thought for many years to be
gold. It wasn't until displacement tests were done about ten years ago that
they realised they were actually silver gilt.

For anyone's who's interested William Snawsel's house in York has been
rebuilt and is called 'Barley Hall'. Snawsel was Alderman of the York
Goldsmith's guild, and both mayor and MP for the city at various times.
However no workshops yet, they borrowed my medieval set of tools (and me)
when they did a working display.

--
William Black

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe
Barbeques on fire by chalets past the headland
I've watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off Newborough
All this will pass like ice-cream on the beach
Time for tea



  #9  
Old May 4th 05, 03:26 AM
William Black
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"CheshireCat" wrote in message
...

Do make sure you're know they're gold. I bought a "9k" necklace from ebay
recently which only had markings on the lobster clasp. These clasps can be
picked up for a few pounds from the www. There were no other markings on
the chain itself.


I had a silver charm bracelet in the shop last week. Someone had bought it
on ebay as 'silver'.

The clasps were, as you say, marked.

When I heated it up to solder on a charm the damn thing started leaking soft
solder all over the place, and afterwards it wouldn't clean up in the pickle
or take a polish.

A seriously ****ed off customer...

--
William Black

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe
Barbeques on fire by chalets past the headland
I've watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off Newborough
All this will pass like ice-cream on the beach
Time for tea



  #10  
Old May 4th 05, 04:24 PM
mbstevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

CheshireCat wrote:
Maybe
there's different rules for jewellery made from multiple
metals, perhaps hallmarks aren't allowed for these
pieces as they're not pure enough.


That seems to be exactly right, if I am reading correctly.
And it's the basis of my grumble. Suppose Mr. X makes a
really beautiful mokume ring with lots of platinum and
silver. Some of the swirls are pure gold.
Unfortunately, the ring contains some bronze and copper
streaks for contrasting color. So, let's say he can't
get it hallmarked.

Unfortunately for Mr. X, it is "an offence for any person
to apply to an unhallmarked article a description
indicating that it is wholly or partly made of gold,
silver or platinum."

This seems to me to be an injustice to Mr. X.
He *should* be able to attach a truthful description
to the ring.

It would be bad enough to slap Mr. X's wrist if he
refuses to comply, but he can also can get jailed for
*TEN*
years.

That makes the injustice much worse.
Mr. X has commited no fraud.
He has simply engaged in a bit of healthy civil
disobedience.







 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
BATIK?!? ANYONE INTERESTED IN A BATIK SPECIFIC NEWSGROUP? Squatting Monkey Yarn 0 April 18th 05 06:55 PM
platinum ring hallmark nigelw Jewelry 0 April 9th 05 04:57 PM
Wooden boxes at Hallmark store Susan Hartman/Dirty Linen Needlework 6 January 11th 05 04:30 PM
need help finding a specific type of hoop for my girlfriend Geoff Moller Jewelry 2 June 15th 04 02:00 AM
Hallmark 297 Peter Jewelry 2 February 19th 04 02:38 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2018 CraftBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.