Does anyone use and recommend the Ultimate Needlework System 4?

Diane Hare wrote:
I believe "dressing" will make a world of difference on more fragile
fabrics. Anyway, there are things we can get away with on
cross-stitch that wont'd work with lush wools or metal-thread
embroideries.

Actually, hoops don't destroy stitches previously made - even wool ones.
Nor Brazilian ones, nor heavily padded Mountmellick ones. However, I
wouldn't squish a hoop down on gold work. :-)

I wasn't aware of full-dressing until this year. Half-dressing is
wrapping the inside of a plain (not lip'd) hoop with cotton floss or
yarn, as a cushion and to avoid direction contact with metal or
potential for wood splinters.

Actually, nice wooden hoops - even cheap ones for that matter - rarely
if ever splinter. But they can stain.

Normally, a hoop is wound with cotton twill. Strips of muslin do just
as well, are cheap and easy to acquire. Polyester twill tape is too
chunky, unwieldy, and attracks dirt like a magnet. It's interesting to
hear about wrapping with yarn. That would take forever. :-) It would
also be prone to moving around a lot, I would think? I've crocheted
enough rings to know how slippery and tedious it is to fill up a ring.

In the U.S., the common method is to wrap the inner hoop. In other
countries, they wrap the outer hoop.

I wrap both on my tambour hoop, the inner on the hand hoops. But I've
wrapped both on those as well.

What wrapping does, essentially, is give you a tight fit - as well as
some protection from whatever material the hoop is made. Metal can
rust, wood can stain.

Another type of "dressing" is usually a large cloth that protects areas
of the embroidery that isn't being worked on. It has a round opening
smaller than the hoop size. You can also just use strips of muslin for
this purpose, but Stefania's pretty cloth is a nice way of doing this.

How fussy you are about your embroidery depends upon the final use,
whether or not it can be washed. One would take greater pains with silk
or metal than you would with ordinary cottons or color-fast wools.

The extra piece not only cushions the fabric but also protects the
stressed edge from direct abrasion and incidental soiling.

The only other thing I can add to this discussion is: DO NOT pull on
fabric once the upper hoop has been tightened down. This will distort
finer fabrics. Coarser ones can take the abuse - most times. But you
will permanently ruin finer fabrics by doing this. If you don't have
your embroidery lined up properly, unfasten the upper hoop and start over.

The disadvantages of a hoop are all the fussing required and the
constant moving around - particularly with the smaller hoops. Large
ones are difficult to manage unless they're on some sort of stand. With
a frame, you can set up your cloth and be done with it. But there are
some stitches that don't lend themselves to working in a frame, or at
the least you will have to slacken the fabric for stitches using the
sewing method (chain, stem, bullions, fishbone as examples).

Dianne

Dianne Lewandowski wrote:
Diane Hare wrote:
there are things we can get away with on
cross-stitch that wont'd work with lush wools or metal-thread
embroideries.

Actually, hoops don't destroy stitches previously made - even wool ones.
Nor Brazilian ones, nor heavily padded Mountmellick ones. However, I
wouldn't squish a hoop down on gold work. :-)

It's not that the stitches would be destroyed, it's that the hoop
couldn't grip evenly over the lumps.

I wasn't aware of full-dressing until this year. Half-dressing is
wrapping the inside of a plain (not lip'd) hoop with cotton floss or
yarn, as a cushion and to avoid direction contact with metal or
potential for wood splinters.


Actually, nice wooden hoops - even cheap ones for that matter - rarely
if ever splinter. But they can stain.

$1 hoops have splinters as often as cheap chopsticks. They may be the
poorest possible choice, but they're sometimes all a person has (been
there, glad to have had what I'd had rather than nothing at all).

Normally, a hoop is wound with cotton twill. Strips of muslin do just
as well, are cheap and easy to acquire. Polyester twill tape is too
chunky, unwieldy, and attracks dirt like a magnet. It's interesting to
hear about wrapping with yarn. That would take forever. :-) It would
also be prone to moving around a lot, I would think? I've crocheted
enough rings to know how slippery and tedious it is to fill up a ring.

Wrapping with yarn doesn't take any longer than wrapping with 1/4-inch
twill tape. Either is less intensive than the tedium of wrapping a
lampshade frame. When I'd cited yarn, I'd in mind cotton rug yarn.

In the U.S., the common method is to wrap the inner hoop. In other
countries, they wrap the outer hoop.

I wrap both on my tambour hoop, the inner on the hand hoops. But I've
wrapped both on those as well.

What wrapping does, essentially, is give you a tight fit - as well as
some protection from whatever material the hoop is made. Metal can
rust, wood can stain.

Another type of "dressing" is usually a large cloth that protects areas
of the embroidery that isn't being worked on. It has a round opening
smaller than the hoop size. You can also just use strips of muslin for
this purpose, but Stefania's pretty cloth is a nice way of doing this.

How fussy you are about your embroidery depends upon the final use,
whether or not it can be washed. One would take greater pains with silk
or metal than you would with ordinary cottons or color-fast wools.

It can also depend on how long the project will take and in what
conditions. Will it be tossed into a bag and toted about? Will it be
done in a week or might it be a year of once/week stitching in diverse
locations and conditions?

The extra piece not only cushions the fabric but also protects the
stressed edge from direct abrasion and incidental soiling.


The only other thing I can add to this discussion is: DO NOT pull on
fabric once the upper hoop has been tightened down. This will distort
finer fabrics. Coarser ones can take the abuse - most times. But you
will permanently ruin finer fabrics by doing this. If you don't have
your embroidery lined up properly, unfasten the upper hoop and start over.

The disadvantages of a hoop are all the fussing required and the
constant moving around - particularly with the smaller hoops. Large
ones are difficult to manage unless they're on some sort of stand. With
a frame, you can set up your cloth and be done with it. But there are
some stitches that don't lend themselves to working in a frame, or at
the least you will have to slacken the fabric for stitches using the
sewing method (chain, stem, bullions, fishbone as examples).

Or do the in-hand stitches last, after removal from whichever sort of frame.

Diane Hare

I'm enjoying this discussion.

Diane Hare wrote:

It's not that the stitches would be destroyed, it's that the hoop
couldn't grip evenly over the lumps.

I haven't noticed that as a problem. A screwdriver is the trick. Paint
the handle purple with a red dot. Keep it with your sewing supplies. :-)

$1 hoops have splinters as often as cheap chopsticks. They may be the
poorest possible choice, but they're sometimes all a person has (been
there, glad to have had what I'd had rather than nothing at all).

Gee, I've used those cheap "made in China" hoops and haven't noticed any
splinters. Maybe that's because I'm in such a habit of wrapping (though
not always), I haven't come across the problem. My problem with the
cheap hoops are that the hinges for the screw snap off, or that the
screw strips and won't tighten sufficiently.

Even the German ones don't always come shipped to me in pristine
condition. Sometimes a layer hasn't quite been hit well enough with the
glue.

I've been trying to find a source for the wider ones - which do seem to
make a more snug fit.

Wrapping with yarn doesn't take any longer than wrapping with 1/4-inch
twill tape. Either is less intensive than the tedium of wrapping a
lampshade frame. When I'd cited yarn, I'd in mind cotton rug yarn.

Actually, twill tape that I've used is at least a half inch. :-) But
it's so difficult to find the 100% cotton these days, so I use one-inch
strips of muslin. Goes fast.

I have never, ever seen a yarn-wrapped hoop. But then, I live in a near
cloistered situation. In my life, I haven't known anyone else (in
person) who embroiders.

Yes, I've wrapped lampshades. Takes forever!

It can also depend on how long the project will take and in what
conditions. Will it be tossed into a bag and toted about? Will it be
done in a week or might it be a year of once/week stitching in diverse
locations and conditions?

I wonder if I should share my story of the drawn thread curtain that
sat, tightly clamped in a tambour hoop, for over a year? It was filthy.
It wasn't finished. I've never experienced this type of problem, but
I wasn't going to lose this curtain and the work I had done to date.

It's as good as new, already to be fitted back in the hoop and begun again.

Or, the story of the silk thread embroidery that was clamped tight
(screwdriver tight) for months. Padded needlepainting. It, too, is as
good as new.

I don't recommend this treatment. My life has been difficult for some
time, and my projects got neglected. Lots of starts and stops on
different things trying to cope. But I can say with impunity that we
worry too much about this stuff. Embroidery can take a LOT of hard
treatment and bounce back good as new.

Or do the in-hand stitches last, after removal from whichever sort of
frame.

That is an option of which I am currently undertaking. But not last -
rather as a set up for drawn fabric. :-) This piece has been in and
out of a hoop numerous times.

Thanks for the lively discussion on an interesting topic.

Dianne

I'd been embroiderying for 2.5 decades before I ever had a hoop that
didn't have spring tension . . . metal with a cork strip. The cork had
lost its oomph and wrapping gave a tighter fit. I've no guess how long
my mom'd had it before she'd shared it with me.

After checking our storage unit last evening and I came home with my
envelopes of Coats & Clarks floss . . . Way back when I'd been so happy
to have finally completed my collection, and then I'd seen a *real* LNS
with DMC & evenweave fabrics (I'd been embroidering on the backs of
pre-stamped 100% linen stuffs) and was overwhelmed. I got myself a
satin-finished wooden hoop then, with a flat spring. I still don't have
a tambour hoop that's both nice _and_ tightens with a screw/bolt.

There was also a 2-yard length of doodle fabric with a needle locked in
one corner. I'm reminded to never, ever, leave the needle in the
fabric. I'm figuring how to use a piece of acid-free card-stock and a
scrap of fabric to make a needle stash to be held to the corner of the
fabric with a couple of stitches, because it is convenient to stall a
needle with an incomplete project.

There's already keep a combination folding pliers/screwdriver/etc under
a flap in my large needlework bag. I don't need to worry about Hubby
snagging it. He has his stuff in the computer jungle area and we both
have more in a kitchen drawer. I grin as I consider the _need_ to make
a case for the all-in-one-tool to match the scissors case, needle case,
eyeglass case, etc.

Yes, I am also enjoying the discussions. They're a good alternative to
more than an hour's stitching on 48-count and to vegging out with DVD's.

Diane Hare

Dianne Lewandowski wrote:
I'm enjoying this discussion.

Diane Hare wrote:


It's not that the stitches would be destroyed, it's that the hoop
couldn't grip evenly over the lumps.


I haven't noticed that as a problem. A screwdriver is the trick. Paint
the handle purple with a red dot. Keep it with your sewing supplies. :-)

$1 hoops have splinters as often as cheap chopsticks. They may be the
poorest possible choice, but they're sometimes all a person has (been
there, glad to have had what I'd had rather than nothing at all).


Gee, I've used those cheap "made in China" hoops and haven't noticed any
splinters. Maybe that's because I'm in such a habit of wrapping (though
not always), I haven't come across the problem. My problem with the
cheap hoops are that the hinges for the screw snap off, or that the
screw strips and won't tighten sufficiently.

GREAT SUGGESTION I had not thought of "dressing the fabric" when I get
to the project I want to do which calls for satin jean fabric.
Perhaps I can forgo the expense of a square/slate frame for now, and
the stand, since I did spend money recently on a seat frame with a
deep German 10 inch hoop.

BTW, I got his on ebay and really like it. It has an "articulated"
upright post - meaning the post is in two pieces and is held together
with a screw. You can adjust the stand to put the hoop at the height
and angle you want it. I think this is more versitale than the type
of fanny frame available from England (available from "Royal School of
Needlework" on their website. Early in the week I saw that the couple
who make the stand w/german hoop which I bought on ebay have a listing
with 3 more just like mine available. The seller's name is "Wandaken"
if anyone wants to look it up on ebay. It's listed at $33, but this
is about 1/2 the cost of the English-made seat frame. The hoop is a
top-quality German-made 1" deep and 10" around hoop with a brass screw
- I saw the same one for $16 on a website of needlework products.

If I want to purchase a different sized hoop it would be a simple
thing to drill a small, inset, screw hole into the inner hoop and use
this frame of other projects as well.

I wanted a square frame primarily because I d taking the fabric
out each night and then fussing with getting it in tight again - but I
have gathered that it's not such a big deal to leave your project in
the hoop overnight.

If I decided to put a project aside for awhile I will take it out -
but in that case I am probably using the hoop for whatever I switched
to... :-)

I pulled out my sewing machine and will make a "dress for my hoop this
weekend. Dianne pointed me to the instructions for doing so on the
EmbroideryNow site when I posted on Dianne's discussion board last
week (thanks for pointing me to this list Dianne!)

I looked for cotton twill tape to wrap the inside of my hoop at
Hancocks and only found polyester, so I will have to use muslin
instead (hadn't thought of that until I read this thread.)

I confess that I pull on my fabric to get it tight all the time - but
I am using heavy linen for crewel embroidery - so that's not such a
big deal in my case.


Speaking of new projects - I got the book with Jacobean Iron-On
Transfers today. I have been working kits to learn stitches and get
the feel for crewel embroidery - so using iron-on transfers will be
the next big step in my personal development in this art.

I think the motifs in the Jacobean Iron-On Transfers book are
WONDERFUL but I do not care for the colors in the original piece. I
have gathered from some reading I have done in the archives that many
do not like Jacobean due to the predominate grey and brown colors. I
read somewhere that the pieces we have from centuries ago may actually
be faded or the dyes have not held up...

Regardless, there is no reason why I cannot do a modern color scheme
with these Jacobean motifs. I have Jane Rainbow's "A Beginner's Guide
to Crewel Embroidery" - which is very inspirational in this regard. I
understand Sue Hawkins & Judy Jeroy's books on crewel are also
inspirational in regards to choosing colors for jacobean-style crewel,
but I don't have either book yet. (Boo Hoo)

I think rather than getting a stand and square frame right now I will
concentrate on building my thread and fabric collections (such fun)
and of course my book collection. :-)

THANKS TO ALL
SEWING SUSAN
Minnesota

GREAT SUGGESTION I had not thought of "dressing the fabric" when I get
to the project I want to do which calls for satin jean fabric.
Perhaps I can forgo the expense of a square/slate frame for now, and
the stand, since I did spend money recently on a seat frame with a
deep German 10 inch hoop.

BTW, I got his on ebay and really like it. It has an "articulated"
upright post - meaning the post is in two pieces and is held together
with a screw. You can adjust the stand to put the hoop at the height
and angle you want it. I think this is more versitale than the type
of fanny frame available from England (available from "Royal School of
Needlework" on their website. Early in the week I saw that the couple
who make the stand w/german hoop which I bought on ebay have a listing
with 3 more just like mine available. The seller's name is "Wandaken"
if anyone wants to look it up on ebay. It's listed at $33, but this
is about 1/2 the cost of the English-made seat frame. The hoop is a
top-quality German-made 1" deep and 10" around hoop with a brass screw
- I saw the same one for $16 on a website of needlework products.

If I want to purchase a different sized hoop it would be a simple
thing to drill a small, inset, screw hole into the inner hoop and use
this frame of other projects as well.

I wanted a square frame primarily because I d taking the fabric
out each night and then fussing with getting it in tight again - but I
have gathered that it's not such a big deal to leave your project in
the hoop overnight.

If I decided to put a project aside for awhile I will take it out -
but in that case I am probably using the hoop for whatever I switched
to... :-)

I pulled out my sewing machine and will make a "dress for my hoop this
weekend. Dianne pointed me to the instructions for doing so on the
EmbroideryNow site when I posted on Dianne's discussion board last
week (thanks for pointing me to this list Dianne!)

I looked for cotton twill tape to wrap the inside of my hoop at
Hancocks and only found polyester, so I will have to use muslin
instead (hadn't thought of that until I read this thread.)

I confess that I pull on my fabric to get it tight all the time - but
I am using heavy linen for crewel embroidery - so that's not such a
big deal in my case.


Speaking of new projects - I got the book with Jacobean Iron-On
Transfers today. I have been working kits to learn stitches and get
the feel for crewel embroidery - so using iron-on transfers will be
the next big step in my personal development in this art.

I think the motifs in the Jacobean Iron-On Transfers book are
WONDERFUL but I do not care for the colors in the original piece. I
have gathered from some reading I have done in the archives that many
do not like Jacobean due to the predominate grey and brown colors. I
read somewhere that the pieces we have from centuries ago may actually
be faded or the dyes have not held up...

Regardless, there is no reason why I cannot do a modern color scheme
with these Jacobean motifs. I have Jane Rainbow's "A Beginner's Guide
to Crewel Embroidery" - which is very inspirational in this regard. I
understand Sue Hawkins & Judy Jeroy's books on crewel are also
inspirational in regards to choosing colors for jacobean-style crewel,
but I don't have either book yet. (Boo Hoo)

I think rather than getting a stand and square frame right now I will
concentrate on building my thread and fabric collections (such fun)
and of course my book collection. :-)

THANKS TO ALL
SEWING SUSAN
Minnesota

Diane Hare wrote:

I'd been embroiderying for 2.5 decades before I ever had a hoop that
didn't have spring tension . . . metal with a cork strip. The cork had
lost its oomph and wrapping gave a tighter fit. I've no guess how long
my mom'd had it before she'd shared it with me.

Oh, those were my first hoops as a child. I remember them well. The
local store still sells them and I have a few on hand because every once
in awhile someone asks for them and I send them on. :-)

I got myself a
satin-finished wooden hoop then, with a flat spring. I still don't have
a tambour hoop that's both nice _and_ tightens with a screw/bolt.

Mine tightens with a wing-nut/bolt. Got it at Lacis. But I don't think
Lacis sells the wide hoops - only narrower ones, now. A friend asked
about the depth (or maybe that was me that asked) and the answer was:
"It doesn't make any difference, one holds as well as the other."
They're wider than my hand-held German hoop, but not as wide as my
present tambour, which is 1-1/4" and holds like a frame would hold.

There was also a 2-yard length of doodle fabric with a needle locked in
one corner. I'm reminded to never, ever, leave the needle in the
fabric.

Because of possible rust? I'm amused by this because I have loads of
scrap fabric around, all different types, from countable to the finest
lawn, all with needle and thread affixed because I will practise on
them, or use them for "directions" I'm compiling on the scanner. Some
are years old. No problem.

I'm figuring how to use a piece of acid-free card-stock and a
scrap of fabric to make a needle stash to be held to the corner of the
fabric with a couple of stitches, because it is convenient to stall a
needle with an incomplete project.

That sounds like an interesting device. You'll have to embroider it!
Make it of wool felt!! :-)

There's already keep a combination folding pliers/screwdriver/etc under
a flap in my large needlework bag. I don't need to worry about Hubby
snagging it. He has his stuff in the computer jungle area and we both
have more in a kitchen drawer. I grin as I consider the _need_ to make
a case for the all-in-one-tool to match the scissors case, needle case,
eyeglass case, etc.

Take a look at my needlework case - under shadow embroidery. I made a
"stitcher's necessary" last year (wool embroidery on wool flannel) but
haven't promoted it because so few want projects that must be sewn up.

Yes, I am also enjoying the discussions. They're a good alternative to
more than an hour's stitching on 48-count and to vegging out with DVD's.

And what are you stitching on 48-count? As soon as I finish my current
project, I want to design another and do it on 45-count fine linen. A
drawn fabric piece. Then there's the curtain to finish, the padded silk
piece. The stumpwork piece. sigh

Dianne

sewingsusan wrote:

I confess that I pull on my fabric to get it tight all the time - but
I am using heavy linen for crewel embroidery - so that's not such a
big deal in my case.

It might be a big deal one day. I've ruined a few projects before I
learned how to do it so this doesn't happen.

Start with the hoop half-way down on the lower hoop. Tighten a little.
Square up the fabric so that it is fairly smooth. Tighten the screw
again (the top hoop may pop off at this juncture, so start again).

THEN: push down the upper hoop. The fabric will stretch itself
perfectly. Now use your screwdriver (if you need it drum tight for long
periods.)

I think the motifs in the Jacobean Iron-On Transfers book are
WONDERFUL but I do not care for the colors in the original piece. I
have gathered from some reading I have done in the archives that many
do not like Jacobean due to the predominate grey and brown colors. I
read somewhere that the pieces we have from centuries ago may actually
be faded or the dyes have not held up...

Actually, I've been doing a bit of reading the last few days on crewel
embroidery, because of questions about what needles to use. So I've
been referencing several different authors and periods of time. Seems
that GREEN was the predominant color, blue came next. If you want more
info on this (the reference comes from England from periodicals dating
from near the turn of the 19th century to about 1950) I'll grab it and
type out more for you.

Have fun.
Dianne

2004 French Mystery Sampler site:
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/anne-les-pet...airejardin.htm

I'm using dark & medium green, indigo blue, rose & peach silks on
salvaged ( :-) as in was-a-shirt-before ) linen shirting.

Diane Hare

Dianne Lewandowski wrote:
Diane Hare wrote:
Yes, I am also enjoying the discussions. They're a good alternative
to more than an hour's stitching on 48-count and to vegging out with
DVD's.


And what are you stitching on 48-count? As soon as I finish my current
project, I want to design another and do it on 45-count fine linen. A
drawn fabric piece. Then there's the curtain to finish, the padded silk
piece. The stumpwork piece. sigh

Dianne

Well, you're a glutton for punishment. :-) That's pretty fine work!
Go girl!
Dianne

Diane Hare wrote:

2004 French Mystery Sampler site:
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/anne-les-pet...airejardin.htm

I'm using dark & medium green, indigo blue, rose & peach silks on
salvaged ( :-) as in was-a-shirt-before ) linen shirting.

Diane Hare

Dianne Lewandowski wrote:

Diane Hare wrote:

Yes, I am also enjoying the discussions. They're a good alternative
to more than an hour's stitching on 48-count and to vegging out with
DVD's.



And what are you stitching on 48-count? As soon as I finish my
current project, I want to design another and do it on 45-count fine
linen. A drawn fabric piece. Then there's the curtain to finish, the
padded silk piece. The stumpwork piece. sigh

Dianne