OT rcty

On 1/19/04 5:23 PM, in article ,
"Darla" wrote:

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 22:34:26 -0400, wrote:

She was born in 1947 -
And this makes her a Holocaust survivor/orphan in what way?
Darla
Sacred cows make great hamburgers.
Actually 1943 - born in a camp!
Cheryl

Thanks for this post. I know the song but never knew what it was about.
Frightening indeed!

KDLark wrote:
When I read this thread, I thought immediately of the classic experiments by
Stanley Milgram, a professor at Yale who tested "obedience to authority" in
1961-1962 just as you describe, Dianne. ( I went the shelves to find our copy
of this book, but apparently it did not survive my husband's "weeding.") These
results were shocking to a great many people -- particularly when those who
"refused" didn't seem to fit any comfortable niche. Sixty-five percent of
those in Milgram's experiment went along dutifully shocking another person --
even when the "shockee" faked severe pain and heart trouble. A frightening and
sobering result for us to consider. Peter Gabriel wrote a chilling song
("Milgrom's 100") about this experiment: "we do as we're told."

--
Brenda Lewis
WIP: "Pink Baby" photo frame, Candamar

She was born in 1947 -
And this makes her a Holocaust survivor/orphan in what way?
Darla
Sacred cows make great hamburgers.
Actually 1943 - born in a camp!
Cheryl

Bio says Switzerland....no camps there....

In fact, her family should have been "safe" there from the Nazis.

But, as I am only the decendent from Jews who, wisely, left Europe before
WWII, leaving family behind who did not survive, who am I to say? g

Caryn
Blue Wizard Designs
http://hometown.aol.com/crzy4xst/index.html
Updated: 7/7/03 -- now available Dragon of the Stars
View WIPs at: http://community.webshots.com/user/carynlws (Caryn's UFO's)

Caryn wrote:
She was born in 1947 -

And this makes her a Holocaust survivor/orphan in what way?

Actually 1943 - born in a camp!

Bio says Switzerland....no camps there....

Not true. She was born in a displaced persons camp and actually did
have a pretty rotten childhood.

Elizabeth
--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate
and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

On 19 Jan 2004 04:16:50 GMT, (Texasxsgal1) wrote:

Peeps bleaghhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Agree
Mayo bleaghhhhhhhhhhhhhh
as a thin scraping
MW bleaghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
as a thin scraping

Now that I've got 90% of this NG disagrreing with me (better make tha 99%) . .
. . . . .
:-)
kathy
san antonio

On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 19:05:19 -0700 (MST), (C
Cordell) wrote:

corrected it to
'second generation Holocaust survivor,' which means 'child of Holocaust
victim.'
What kind of doubletalk is that? "child of Holocaust victim" is a
phrase I can accept. "second-generation Holocaust survivor" is
meaningless gibberish. That's like me calling myself a Korean-war
survivor, though I was born in Los Angeles County 2 months before the
war's end. Or a second-generation Solomons' Campaign survivor.
Darla
Sacred cows make great hamburgers.

wrote:

To that (the situation in Germany/Poland wherever at the time) I often
think, imagine your home town now. I know if trains were going along
the lines with freight trucks full of people that always came back
empty - I would be starting to wonder what was going on.

Some people knew what was going on, others didn't. In Poland at least,
the average person was pretty downtrodden. And many people didn't care.
Anti-semitism was pretty well ingrained in the cultures of most major
European cultures.

All these people could not be accommodated at these camps, they would
overflow, therefore these people are being eliminated in some way.

Many of the camps were in fairly isolated areas. Oswiecim-Brzezina is
not the most populated portion of Poland.

I personally believe many people must have been privvy to what was
happening, there must have been speculation and gossip which because
of the trains was not unfounded.

That is what confounds me. Why was there no unrest ? Why did nobody
ask any questions ? Yes, I know people were scared, but even so there
are always a certain percentage of people who are willing to stick
their necks out.

There was not a lot of unrest, but there was resistance. Many people
harbored Jews or helped them to escape. But keep in mind that the
penalty in the General-Gouverment (German-occupied Poland) was death to
your family for three generations in each direction. I might be willing
to risk my own life, but I won't risk my children's.

There are also stories of enormous heroism. Jan Karski travelled all
the way to the United States to beg Roosevelt to bomb Auschwitz or at
least the railroad tracks leading into the camp and then travelled back
to Poland to continue his work with the Home Army. Roosevelt refused,
as you must know.

Everytime I try to picture this happening, I truly do not understand
how it went on for several years smoothly.

It was not always smooth. But yes, many people participated, and many
people turned their backs. Slavery went on for years, too, as did
Apartheid, and segregation and multiple other horrors. The Holocaust is
not unique.

Elizabeth
--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate
and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 01:02:25 GMT, "Dr. Brat"
wrote:


Caryn wrote:

She was born in 1947 -

And this makes her a Holocaust survivor/orphan in what way?

Actually 1943 - born in a camp!

Bio says Switzerland....no camps there....

Not true. She was born in a displaced persons camp and actually did
have a pretty rotten childhood.

Elizabeth


That would fit 1947 then - I am trying to think of the name of the
infamous Swiss camps for displaced people. The Swiss have quite a bit
of dirty washing in some ways.

Her published biography says 1943. Her mother was not in the death
camps (the Swiss didn't turn her over, because she was pregnant), but
lost all of her family, which does qualify the mother as a "survivor."

Elizabeth
--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate
and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

"Dr. Brat" had some very interesting things to
say about OT rcty:

Not true. She was born in a displaced persons camp and actually did
have a pretty rotten childhood.

And how many millions of slum kids have had really rotten childhoods
[or even kids from "better" social strata], and managed to overcome
it, instead of letting it define their lives and using it as an excuse
for lousy behavior?

Frankly, I think the Holocaust excuse for nasty behavior is an insult
to the memories of the people who died in that nightmare. IMO, the way
to honor those memories is to move forward and be *better*, not worse,
for that experience.
--
"The universe is quite robust in design and appears to be
doing just fine on its own, incompetent support staff notwithstanding.
:-)" - the Dennis formerly known as (evil), MCFL

Group: rec.crafts.textiles.needlework Date: Wed, Jan 21, 2004, 1:36am
(MST+7) From: hescom (Darla)
On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 19:05:19 -0700 (MST), (C
Cordell) wrote:

corrected it to

'second generation Holocaust survivor,' which
means 'child of Holocaust victim.'

What kind of doubletalk is that? "child of
Holocaust victim" is a phrase I can accept.

Darla

It's Mirjam's kind of doubletalk. That's why I defined it as "child
of...




chris c
A man has to live with himself, and he should see to it that he always
has good company. -Charles Evans Hughes, jurist (1862-1948)