possible to identify source of garment by examining stitching, inner materials, etc?

is it possible to identify (either exactly or not-so-exactly),
country/city/specific factory where a RTW or bespoke garment was
manufactured, by examining it, if there are no labels?

Alan Horowitz wrote:

is it possible to identify (either exactly or not-so-exactly),
country/city/specific factory where a RTW or bespoke garment was
manufactured, by examining it, if there are no labels?

No: with RTW too many of the techniques are universal, and often the
fabric is woven in one place and made into garments in another, for sale
in a third! It's also impossible to tell where a machine made in the
far east was sited when the garment was made up: there are only about 3
serger factories in the world, and their machines ship all over - how
can you tell that a machine made in factory A was used in Country 3, 4,
9, or 15? It will still stitch the same!

The only way to tell this sort of information is if you are looking at
ethnic clothing, and even there it can be hard. For example, it's
possible to get a salwar kameez outfit made in Bradford using exactly
the same fabrics and techniques as used in India: once the garment is
sewn up, how do you tell? You can't!

Bespoke is a bit different: there are certain styles and techniques more
common to the tailors of Hong Kong than to those of Saville Row, BUT
unless you are an expert, you wouldn't be able to see them. Most of
them are hidden. Hand finished and largely hand tailored things are a
Saville Row speciality, but most of the work (about 75% of the
stitching) is hidden when the garment is complete. Some of the
differences are in the pressing rather than the stitching, and THAT is a
lot more subtle and difficult to see! I did once meet a tailor who
could look at a bespoke suit and say 'Not one of ours: try Xxxxx', or
'This is a Hong Kong/American/French garment', but he had over 50 years
experience at this sort of thing. Nice bloke: worked for Gieves &
Hawkes - and made my dad a couple of uniforms and a suit or two.
--
Kate XXXXXX
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

"Alan Horowitz" is it possible to identify where a bespoke garment was
manufactured, by examining it, if there are no labels?

A true bespoke jacket is not manufactured but, 75% to 100% hand sewn.
Bespoke is a tailor or cutter that measures the customer and then makes a
pattern for that customer, cuts the cloth and trimmings and then sews some
of it, fits the body of the jacket to the customer with a "fitting",
finishes most of the body of the jacket and then puts the sleeves and collar
on, second fitting, sews the sleeves in permantly, finishes the collar,
lining, etc., and final press, then the buttons.

Bespoke tailors & cutters are from Western Europe. They are not the same as
Eastern Europe tailors, or South American tailors, or Asian tailors, or
Costume tailors. Next, but not tailors, but sometimes they call themselve
or advertise as tailors are shops that take your measurements and send them
off to a manufacture, which makes manufactured garments - if you can't
afford a tailored garment and the ones at the store can't be fitted - this
is a good place to go (made to measure).

Some tailors have several price ranges. Such as, pre-made fronts (canvases)
and ok fit; to pre-made fronts and well fitted; semi-tailored; to full
tailored; to 100% hand sewn (some of these run up to $5,000 a 3 piece
suite), to $20,000 - $25,000.

Most manufactured jackets (coats) have gummed or glued right onto the jacket
cloth front itself (for shaping), you will feel only the outer cloth and
lining. Some have pre-made fronts (canvas) that have be gummed or glued
together, you will be able to feel three pieces- outer cloth, canvas and
lining.

Tailored jackets (coats) the canvases are pre-made and machine sewn - not
gummed or glued ($2-$10 a set).

Bespoke tailored jackets (coats) the canvases are hand cut to the customer
and hand sewn to the shape of the customer. There are several ways to cut
and sew these canvases, and several ways to do the final pressing, not to
mention fittings. One story is where a cutter measured a customer and made
the pattern, cut the cloth for three suites, all the same and then handed
each set to three different tailors; in the end they all looked different,
but they all fit. One tailor might believe in pressing the coat on the
flat, except for the sleeve caps; whereas, another might believe every part
of the coat should be pressed on the curve (tailor ham, sleeve roll, and
press-mitt, etc.), except the front edge. Therefore, each tailoring company
has an idea of what the finished jacket should look like, fit, what kind of
movements the customer can make, and even what the suit does when the
customer sits in a chair. Who would make unlabled tailored garments? A
retired tailor, tailor hobbyist, a tailor who tailors on the side and does
not want to be fired from the tailor company he works for (or not interested
having labels made), or somebody who is thinking about starting there own
tailor company.

John

possible to identify source of garment by examining stitching, inner
materials, etc?

(A)
"Alan Horowitz" is it possible to identify where a bespoke garment was
manufactured, by examining it, if there are no labels?
---
A true bespoke jacket is not manufactured but, 75% to 100% hand sewn.
Bespoke is a tailor or cutter that measures the customer and then makes
a pattern for that customer, cuts the cloth and trimmings and then sews
some of it, snip rest of excellent informative reply from John
---
Most interesting, and I learned quite a bit. Thanks, John.
As to individual tailors, seamstresses and the like: I always use a
series of unique stitches to begin or finish a hem or seam, so I can
identify my work if a client says, "This hem you did is sagging/pulled
loose."
99% of the time, I have been able to inspect the garment and, if I
don't recall sewing it, identify the stitching, deny the charges, and
offer to do it right, for a small fee.
(Some clients put their toes through hems, dry cleaning can stress
hems, and there's the rare bird who insists on an invisible,
hand-floated hem, when you've done your best to convince them that a
machine hem, like the original hem, is best for the garment.)
Cea