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Use of extremely fine drawplate



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 13th 08, 04:47 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Fred Zweig
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default Use of extremely fine drawplate

Good morning everyone. I have used a great many drawplates in my time
and have recently acquired one that draws down to an extremely fine
diameter. I need a loupe to see the last few holes in the plate. Are
there any tricks to draw down wire this thin? I will be using 22k-24k
gold and fine silver. I am expecting to have difficulties keeping the
wire from breaking and even feeding it into the smaller holes of the
plate. Anyone have experience drawing very fine wire?

Thanks,
Fred
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  #2  
Old November 14th 08, 06:43 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Peter W.. Rowe,
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 355
Default Use of extremely fine drawplate

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 07:47:18 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Fred Zweig
wrote:

Good morning everyone. I have used a great many drawplates in my time
and have recently acquired one that draws down to an extremely fine
diameter. I need a loupe to see the last few holes in the plate. Are
there any tricks to draw down wire this thin? I will be using 22k-24k
gold and fine silver. I am expecting to have difficulties keeping the
wire from breaking and even feeding it into the smaller holes of the
plate. Anyone have experience drawing very fine wire?

Thanks,
Fred


Don't neglect annealing as needed. That will considerably reduce breaking
problems. With very fine wire, the easiest way I've found to anneal a coil is
with a small kiln or one of the small beehive enamelling ovens, rather than
trying to do it with a torch. Set the temp at around 900 or so, and after
firecoating the coil, put it in there for ten or fifteen minutes. gives a very
even and good anneal.

Putting a decent point on the wire so you can grab it can be tricky. If fine
sanding disks in a flex shaft don't do it for you, sometimes you can simply
anneal and then stretch a short section till it breaks, which reduces the
diameter a little in the stretched area. With some drawplates, this is enough.
Some wire can be acid eched at the end to reduce the diameter, or
electroetched/electrostripped, for the same result. If doing it with a sanding
disk etc, it seems easier to me to point it before annealing it.

Grabbing the end to pull it. Drawtongs of course are out for wire this fine.
Just a lightly sanded texture on the inside of flat jawed pliers is usually
enough to grab the wire sufficiently. Serrated jaws are too much, sometimes
cutting the wire. If the pliers you've got tend to slip too much, hammer
lightly directly down on the ends of the plier jaws. Creates a slight lip at
the edge. Careful: Too much makes them cut the wire.

Same lubes for the drawplate as you'd usually use. For very fine wire, I prefer
liquid or paste "Bur life". More solid lubes like beeswax clog the holes and
it's harder to poke a sharpened very fine wire point through thicker lubes.

Hope this helps.

Peter
  #3  
Old November 14th 08, 07:13 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Fred Zweig
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default Use of extremely fine drawplate

On Nov 13, 10:43=A0pm, "Peter W.. Rowe,"
wrote:
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 07:47:18 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Fred Zweig


Don't neglect annealing as needed. =A0That will considerably reduce break=

ing
problems. =A0With very fine wire, the easiest way I've found to anneal a =

coil is
with a small kiln or one of the small beehive enamelling ovens, rather th=

an
trying to do it with a torch. =A0Set the temp at around 900 or so, and af=

ter
firecoating the coil, put it in there for ten or fifteen minutes. =A0give=

s a very
even and good anneal. =A0

Putting a decent point on the wire so you can grab it can be tricky. =A0I=

f fine
sanding disks in a flex shaft don't do it for you, sometimes you can simp=

ly
anneal and then stretch a short section till it breaks, which reduces the
diameter a little in the stretched area. =A0With some drawplates, this is=

enough.
Some wire can be acid eched at the end to reduce the diameter, or
electroetched/electrostripped, for the same result. =A0If doing it with a=

sanding
disk etc, it seems easier to me to point it before annealing it.

Grabbing the end to pull it. =A0Drawtongs of course are out for wire this=

fine.
Just a lightly sanded texture on the inside of flat jawed pliers is usual=

ly
enough to grab the wire sufficiently. =A0Serrated jaws are too much, some=

times
cutting the wire. =A0 If the pliers you've got tend to slip too much, ham=

mer
lightly directly down on the ends of the plier jaws. =A0Creates a slight =

lip at
the edge. =A0Careful: =A0Too much makes them cut the wire.

Same lubes for the drawplate as you'd usually use. =A0For very fine wire,=

I prefer
liquid or paste "Bur life". =A0More solid lubes like beeswax clog the hol=

es and
it's harder to poke a sharpened very fine wire point through thicker lube=

s. =A0

Hope this helps.

Peter


Peter,

Those are just the tips I needed. All make sense and I will make
attempts to draw the wire this comming week. I may not need to draw
the wire to the smallest hole on the plate since I intend to use the
wire for damascene work known as zogan by the japanese. The wire used
in this work is extremely fine and I suspect I can get my wire down to
adequate dimensions with you handy advice.

Many thanks,
Fred
  #4  
Old November 16th 08, 07:32 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
lemelman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Use of extremely fine drawplate

Fred Zweig wrote:
.....snip
I may not need to draw
the wire to the smallest hole on the plate since I intend to use the
wire for damascene work known as zogan by the japanese. The wire used
in this work is extremely fine and I suspect I can get my wire down to
adequate dimensions with you handy advice.

Many thanks,
Fred


Fred, just for interest, what is the diameter (in mm or inches - I don't
understand gauges) you want?

--
Regards, Gary Wooding
(To reply by email, change feet to foot in my address)
  #5  
Old November 17th 08, 08:22 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Fred Zweig
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default Use of extremely fine drawplate

On Nov 16, 11:32=EF=BF=BDam, lemelman wrote:
Fred Zweig wrote:

....snip

I may not need to draw
the wire to the smallest hole on the plate since I intend to use the
wire for damascene work known as zogan by the japanese. The wire used
in this work is extremely fine and I suspect I can get my wire down to
adequate dimensions with you handy advice.


Many thanks,
Fred


Fred, just for interest, what is the diameter (in mm or inches - I don't
understand gauges) you want?

--
Regards, Gary Wooding
(To reply by email, change feet to foot in my address)


Gary,

I will be attempting to do some very fine zogan work (Japanese
damascene) in iron and the wire needs to be much thinner than a single
strand of lamp cord wire. I am not certain what the thickness would
be in millimeters. I have seen the rolls used in the Japanese work
and it appears not much thicker than sewing thread.

Best,
Fred
  #6  
Old November 18th 08, 06:28 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Don T
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14
Default Use of extremely fine drawplate

Need gold or Silver? I've got about 2 pounds of 32 Ga Fine Ag in my drawer.
About 0.203 mm. dia.

--


Don Thompson

Stolen from Dan: "Just thinking, besides, I watched 2 dogs mating once,
and that makes me an expert. "

There is nothing more frightening than active ignorance.
~Goethe

It is a worthy thing to fight for one's freedom;
it is another sight finer to fight for another man's.
~Mark Twain


"Fred Zweig" wrote in message
...
On Nov 16, 11:32=EF=BF=BDam, lemelman wrote:
Fred Zweig wrote:

....snip

I may not need to draw
the wire to the smallest hole on the plate since I intend to use the
wire for damascene work known as zogan by the japanese. The wire used
in this work is extremely fine and I suspect I can get my wire down to
adequate dimensions with you handy advice.


Many thanks,
Fred


Fred, just for interest, what is the diameter (in mm or inches - I don't
understand gauges) you want?

--
Regards, Gary Wooding
(To reply by email, change feet to foot in my address)


Gary,

I will be attempting to do some very fine zogan work (Japanese
damascene) in iron and the wire needs to be much thinner than a single
strand of lamp cord wire. I am not certain what the thickness would
be in millimeters. I have seen the rolls used in the Japanese work
and it appears not much thicker than sewing thread.

Best,
Fred


  #7  
Old November 18th 08, 06:50 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Fred Zweig
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default Use of extremely fine drawplate

Don,

I too have that gauge in fine silver and I need a bit thinner. The
gold makes the greatest contrast against the blackened iron.

Thanks,
Fred
  #8  
Old November 20th 08, 06:52 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Abrasha
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 298
Default Use of extremely fine drawplate

Fred Zweig wrote:
Good morning everyone. I have used a great many drawplates in my time
and have recently acquired one that draws down to an extremely fine
diameter. I need a loupe to see the last few holes in the plate. Are
there any tricks to draw down wire this thin? I will be using 22k-24k
gold and fine silver. I am expecting to have difficulties keeping the
wire from breaking and even feeding it into the smaller holes of the
plate. Anyone have experience drawing very fine wire?

Thanks,
Fred


The trick with wire this soft and this thin, is to never anneal. Just
draw until you reach the desired diameter.

I use a lot of 24K gold wire (for rivets), and I used to have the wire
break on me all the time. Until I stopped annealing the wire. Never
broke again.

--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com
  #9  
Old November 20th 08, 06:52 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Abrasha
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 298
Default Use of extremely fine drawplate

Peter W.. Rowe, wrote:
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 07:47:18 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Fred Zweig
wrote:

Good morning everyone. I have used a great many drawplates in my time
and have recently acquired one that draws down to an extremely fine
diameter. I need a loupe to see the last few holes in the plate. Are
there any tricks to draw down wire this thin? I will be using 22k-24k
gold and fine silver. I am expecting to have difficulties keeping the
wire from breaking and even feeding it into the smaller holes of the
plate. Anyone have experience drawing very fine wire?

Thanks,
Fred


Don't neglect annealing as needed. That will considerably reduce breaking
problems. With very fine wire, the easiest way I've found to anneal a coil is
with a small kiln or one of the small beehive enamelling ovens, rather than
trying to do it with a torch. Set the temp at around 900 or so, and after
firecoating the coil, put it in there for ten or fifteen minutes. gives a very
even and good anneal.


Absolutely wrong advice for 22-24k wire! Never anneal at any time after
the wire is around 1.5 mm square from the wire rolling mill. No
annealing ever! the wire will only stretch and break.


--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com
  #10  
Old November 20th 08, 07:05 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Peter W.. Rowe,
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 355
Default Use of extremely fine drawplate

On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 21:52:13 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Abrasha
wrote:

Don't neglect annealing as needed. That will considerably reduce breaking
problems. With very fine wire, the easiest way I've found to anneal a coil is
with a small kiln or one of the small beehive enamelling ovens, rather than
trying to do it with a torch. Set the temp at around 900 or so, and after
firecoating the coil, put it in there for ten or fifteen minutes. gives a very
even and good anneal.


Absolutely wrong advice for 22-24k wire! Never anneal at any time after
the wire is around 1.5 mm square from the wire rolling mill. No
annealing ever! the wire will only stretch and break.


You're right, of course, Abrasha. I'd neglected to consider the high karat
quality he's drawing. My advice does work, though, for 14K, or white golds, and
I find annealing is still helpful for 18K yellow gold, though I don't always do
so, resulting in a wire coil that, by the time I've got it down to about .2 mm
(I use it for laser welding), is so springy that if I don't then anneal it, I'll
have trouble with it always trying to turn itself into a tangled mess. But I
don't absolutely have to anneal it to get it down that far. And with platinum,
I anneal it off the wire rolling mill before starting to draw it down, but not
again, or it, like fine gold, breaks more easily. And one addendum to the
annealing method. Before continuing to draw down after annealing, one of course
needs to repoint the wire end. Rather than just sanding or filing a point on
the annealed wire, I taper it in one direction (flattening the end) with a
hammer. Then trim that to the point. The resulting partially work hardened
point won't break off as easily in your pliers.

Cheers

Peter
 




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