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Peter's techniques for setting items with prongs



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 11th 03, 01:45 AM
Patricia A. Swan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Peter's techniques for setting items with prongs

Hey, guys.

I've been diving through my archives trying to find a specific post
with directions on setting stones into pronged settings. I'm pretty
positive that it's a Peter Rowe post, but I'm striking out finding it.
The technique has the prongs being progressively brought up from the
sides instead of being pulled back away from the setting and then
pushed back. The post was extremely clear and easy to follow. I've
got a friend who is setting 80 cabs and is having problems getting her
prongs to seat correctly over the stone and I was going to pass over a
copy of my archive of this post and now I *can't locate it*.

Does anyone recognize this and have a copy that they can lay their
hands on easily? She's got about another two and a half weeks before
the big show these cabs are due to go up for sale at.

Pat Swan
Six Swans Designs
--
* Patricia A. Swan, moderator, rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated *
* newsgroup submission address: *
* moderator contact address:
*
* personal contact address:
*
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  #2  
Old November 12th 03, 08:31 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
wrote:
Hey, guys.

I've been diving through my archives trying to find a specific post
with directions on setting stones into pronged settings. I'm pretty
positive that it's a Peter Rowe post, but I'm striking out finding it.
The technique has the prongs being progressively brought up from the
sides instead of being pulled back away from the setting and then
pushed back. The post was extremely clear and easy to follow. I've
got a friend who is setting 80 cabs and is having problems getting her
prongs to seat correctly over the stone and I was going to pass over a
copy of my archive of this post and now I *can't locate it*.

Does anyone recognize this and have a copy that they can lay their
hands on easily? She's got about another two and a half weeks before
the big show these cabs are due to go up for sale at.

Pat Swan
Six Swans Designs


This may be the one your looking for

From: Peter W. Rowe
Subject: Trick to Setting Stones In Stamped Bezels?
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 02:13:47 GMT
Organization: EarthLink Inc. --
http://www.EarthLink.net

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:06:33 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry "Dale"
wrote:

I got some 14k stamped gold open-back oval bezels from Hoover & Strong, and
I took them to a someone who was going to show me how to set my calibrated
cabochons in them, and she was unable to do it. Whenever she tried to push
the bezel over the stone with jeweler's pliers, and also with prong setting
pliers, the metal would flex, so she never could get the stone to remain
seated, and was unable to burnish the bezel to get the metal to rest against
the stone. She tried annealing the metal, and also grinding to thin it out,
but nothing worked. Is there some trick to this, or was she just using the
wrong techniques?



Wrong techniques in two catagories.

First, with flexible settings like open backed bezels or any of a wide range
of
more delicate settings, it's often needed to support the work in some manner
to
keep it from flexing, or even being crushed, by the forces needed to set the
stones. The traditional material for this is orange flake shellac, which I
still prefer to most others. It melts easily enough with a low flame (take
care
not to burn it, holds the metal well, and when cool, stays nicely rigid. And
it's cheap compared to other stuff. More than a few folks, though, find it a
bit too brittle, and prefer setters cements that start with shellac, but then
add various fillers to make them tougher. There are a variety of formulations
that do this, some sold just as "setters cement", and others sold as lapidary
dop wax (the red works nicely) or other such. Commonly brown in color, or
red,
but I've also seen variations in an ochre yellow color. All will work for
you,
with the minor differences in melting point or hardness probably not being
significant for this use. When you're done, you melt the shellac again,
taking
care not to overheat your stone, and clean off excess in alcohol. Or, if you
like there are new thermoplastic materials out now that do the same sort of
thing, but with a bit less mess than shellac based products. Jett Sett is
one
such. white plastic beads that melt in very hot water to a goey consitancy,
like melted shellac, will also adhere somewhat to the metal, and when set,
forms
a rigid tough support for the metal during setting.

Second, for those low bezels, pliers are the wrong tool. You can use them
when
such bezels are securely soldered down to something, and then it's sometimes a
shortcut, but even then, pliers are not really the right way to set those
bezels. For the short, tapered, thick walled types, you use chasing punches
or
a hammer handpiece, and for the stamped ones with vertical, thin metal walls,
you use a burnisher or a bezel roller. Gentler than pliers. Pliers want to
push both sides of a bezel together at once, which is twice the stress needed
to
push just one side at a time. With a bezel roller or burnisher, you're
putting
a lot less force on the metal than with pliers. And in both cases, either
hammering with punches or a hammer handpiece (or in some cases, even just with
a
small hammer itself), or in the thin metal types you do with bezel rollers or
burnishers, the work will be a LOT easier when the bezel is properly
supported
in some sort of setting cement, shellac, or jett sett compound..

Peter

Added Note
Also, it may be important to mention that you need to be sure the bezels are
annealed. Most are supplied that way by manufacturers, but some are not. In
normal use, they get annealed during the assembly process, when one solders
them
onto the jewelry, but if that's not happening, then be sure to anneal the
things, or they may be too springy still from stamping.
  #3  
Old November 12th 03, 08:36 AM
Peter W. Rowe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 00:45:42 GMT, in rec.crafts.jewelry "Patricia A. Swan"
wrote:

Does anyone recognize this and have a copy that they can lay their
hands on easily?


Gosh. I should have that around somewhere, but I'm afraid I'm at a loss to
remember the post you describe. Just not ringing a bell.
but if you can more completely describe what your friend is doing now, and the
problem she's having, I'd be happy to give it another go. And I'm sure others
in the group would also be happy to lend advice, if we had a clearer picture of
just what the problem is.

Is she setting cabs up in the tips of prongs, or down on some sort of
undergallery, or base that's more definitive than seats just cut in the prongs?

If she's cuttng seats in the prongs, what tool(s) are used to cut the seats, and
how is she shaping them?

How is she then tightening the prongs or bending them over? Any preshaping of
the prong tips before the stone is placed in the seat?

What kind of stones are they? (one can be a lot more forceful with a bunch of
sapphire cabs than one can be with opals...

Peter
  #4  
Old November 15th 03, 10:09 PM
Andrew Werby
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Patricia A. Swan" wrote in message
...
Hey, guys.

I've been diving through my archives trying to find a specific post
with directions on setting stones into pronged settings. I'm pretty
positive that it's a Peter Rowe post, but I'm striking out finding it.
The technique has the prongs being progressively brought up from the
sides instead of being pulled back away from the setting and then
pushed back. The post was extremely clear and easy to follow. I've
got a friend who is setting 80 cabs and is having problems getting her
prongs to seat correctly over the stone and I was going to pass over a
copy of my archive of this post and now I *can't locate it*.

Does anyone recognize this and have a copy that they can lay their
hands on easily? She's got about another two and a half weeks before
the big show these cabs are due to go up for sale at.

Pat Swan
Six Swans Designs
--
* Patricia A. Swan, moderator, rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated *
* newsgroup submission address: *
* moderator contact address:
*
* personal contact address:


[Perhaps this is the one:]

From: "Don Robinson"
Subject: videos on stone setting inst.
Date: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 4:00 PM

Our moderator, Peter Rowe, sent me the following message when I was learning
to set stones. Follow his instructions and I believe you will learn
everything you need to set prongs. It has solved all my problems.

Here are his instructions to me:

Many setters just push prongs over with a flat/blunt ended pushing tool.
Not a
rocker (which easily slips). I use a tool, sold for that purpose, which is
just
square steel stock in a graver type handle, who's end is just flat and
square
across, not polished. I've sanded it slightly concave with a sanding drum
to
make it even less likely to slip. If the head is strong enough that you can
just push a tip without the whole head racking to the side, this works just
fine
for most setting work. Takes a bit more work than pliers, but it works.

If you prefer setting pliers, and they often DO help a lot, then try this:
In auto parts type stores, you can get a slim, miniature version of the
plumber's channelock type pliers. You know, the type where you can, when
the
hinge is wide open, slide the jaws closer or farther apart. The full size
version is great on plumbing pipes. this little one is made for adjusting
ignition parts, and are called ignition pliers, I think. Take the teeth off
the
jaws, groove, if desired, the upper jaw to fit over a prong. If you like,
round
over the sides of the lower jaw so it won't leave gashes inside a ring
shank...
And voila. You've got a setting plier for a lot less money than a
traditional
one, with a much wider range of sizes it will grip.

but you may well not need that either. While simple setting techniques say
just
put the stone in the seat and bend the tips over the stone, there is another
way. Here, you cut a seat, then bend the tips over, with normal needle nose
pliers, to the same, or even further degree, that you would with the stone
in
place, but without the stone in place. Without the stone, you can just grab
the
tip and bend it cleanly over with small pliers, with the plier jaw
maintaining a
crisp inner corner to the bend. clean up, with files, burrs, or whatever,
the
inner corner of the seat under that tip, if it needs it, till it's the same
angle as the stone girdle, except slightly tighter (tip bent very slightly
too
far down) Now grab the entire prong, not just the tip, and bend it back a
little
bit from it's base, or where it attaches to the upper gallery level of the
head.
Just a little is enough. Do this to all, and if you've got it right, you
can
just barely slip the stone into the head despite the fact the tips are
already
bent over.

Now, with anything that can push, a prong pusher, graver handle, side of a
plier jaw, your teeth, etc, push the prongs straight towards the stone.
They
won't go tight, of course, since they spring back, but you can move them
most of
the way. This is just to take up much of the movement needed, not to tighten
the
stone. Now grasp the prongs by adjacent (side to side) pairs of prongs, in
ordinary pliers, and squeeze them together slightly. They move towards each
other, side to side, parallel to the girdle, rather than directly towards
the
stone. Go around the entire stone this way, each prong being grasped twice,
bent first to one side (towards one neighbor), and then towards the other.
They'll end up evenly spaced again. But they'll also end up tight to the
stone,
since in this bending, a slight amount of movement is towards the stone.
Since
the side to side bending is much more, and is enough to overcome the elastic
limits of the prong so it stays bent, the simultaneous bending towards the
stone
also stays there, without springing back away from the stone. When you're
doing
this, it is not necessary to get the prongs to bend side to side very much.
Often, you're just slightly squeezing the prongs sideways, and it can seem
that
they haven't moved much or at all, yet when you're done going around the
stone,
somehow they've all tightened up on the stone a good deal. if needed, go
around
the stone more than once till the prongs are all nicely snugged up on the
stone.
This is all very gentle and modest, in terms of pressures used. You ease up
on
getting things tight and secure, rather than needing to get it all at once,
so
you don't damage the stone. It's surprising how fast this tightens the
prongs
on the stone, despite the fact that it seems you're bending the prongs only
sideways. If you consider the actual directions the prongs bend, though,
you
realize that while most of the bending direction is sideways, a small amount
of
the movement is indeed towards the stone.

This method of getting prongs to move towards the stone by moving them side
to
side is what GIA called the "vector" technique of prong tightening, when
they
taught it in the stone setting class I took from them way too many years
ago.
Works very well. It's also often the best way to tighten loose stones in
existing jewelry. Since you never push the prong directly towards the
stone,
the stresses on the stone which might chip it, are much much less than if
you
simply tried to bend prongs directly towards the stone. And because you can
precisely form and shape the seat of the stone without the stone there,
unexpected chips from a prong bending in a way you don't anticipate or
contacting wrong are much less. For some shapes of stones, like emerald
cuts,
where seats in the prongs need to be flat planes, rather than what a setting
bur
cuts, you can define a precise angled seat with files and saws much more
easily
this way too, since you can get the angles just right without the stone and
it's
fragile edges being at risk during the bending of the tip. The prong tips
are
bent slightly too much, so as you tighten the prong, the last bit of the
stone
to fully contact the seat is the girdle itself, as the prong tip hits the
stone
first at it's end, not at the girdle. The tip then actually relaxes
slightly
upwards as you tighten the prong. the girdle is the most fragile, so having
the
prong contact first slightly up the crown facets is much safer, and insures
that
in fighting to get that tip all the down flush to the stone you don't break
the
stone, since this way, it starts out all the way down flush...

About the only real downside to this method is that because you have to
first
bend the prongs back at their base, you may need to clean up (rubber wheel,
etc)
some ripple or bending marks down on the side of the head. But this seems
more
than made up for in that you then don't have as much trouble cleaning up the
tips themselves, since you can get them mostly right before you insert the
stone.

Hope this helps.

Peter Rowe

*
Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com

  #5  
Old November 16th 03, 06:25 PM
Don Robinson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hey Andrew, thanks for saving that. I've changed computers since then and
had lost it myself. I've used Peter's advise ever since and have had no more
trouble myself.

Custom Made Knives and Jewelry
by Don Robinson
http://home.rgv.rr.com/donrob

"Andrew Werby" wrote in message
...

"Patricia A. Swan" wrote in message
...
Hey, guys.

I've been diving through my archives trying to find a specific post
with directions on setting stones into pronged settings. I'm pretty
positive that it's a Peter Rowe post, but I'm striking out finding it.
The technique has the prongs being progressively brought up from the
sides instead of being pulled back away from the setting and then
pushed back. The post was extremely clear and easy to follow. I've
got a friend who is setting 80 cabs and is having problems getting her
prongs to seat correctly over the stone and I was going to pass over a
copy of my archive of this post and now I *can't locate it*.

Does anyone recognize this and have a copy that they can lay their
hands on easily? She's got about another two and a half weeks before
the big show these cabs are due to go up for sale at.

Pat Swan
Six Swans Designs
--
* Patricia A. Swan, moderator, rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated *
* newsgroup submission address: *
* moderator contact address:
*
* personal contact address:


[Perhaps this is the one:]

From: "Don Robinson"
Subject: videos on stone setting inst.
Date: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 4:00 PM

Our moderator, Peter Rowe, sent me the following message when I was

learning
to set stones. Follow his instructions and I believe you will learn
everything you need to set prongs. It has solved all my problems.

Here are his instructions to me:

Many setters just push prongs over with a flat/blunt ended pushing tool.
Not a
rocker (which easily slips). I use a tool, sold for that purpose, which

is
just
square steel stock in a graver type handle, who's end is just flat and
square
across, not polished. I've sanded it slightly concave with a sanding drum
to
make it even less likely to slip. If the head is strong enough that you

can
just push a tip without the whole head racking to the side, this works

just
fine
for most setting work. Takes a bit more work than pliers, but it works.

If you prefer setting pliers, and they often DO help a lot, then try this:
In auto parts type stores, you can get a slim, miniature version of the
plumber's channelock type pliers. You know, the type where you can, when
the
hinge is wide open, slide the jaws closer or farther apart. The full size
version is great on plumbing pipes. this little one is made for adjusting
ignition parts, and are called ignition pliers, I think. Take the teeth

off
the
jaws, groove, if desired, the upper jaw to fit over a prong. If you like,
round
over the sides of the lower jaw so it won't leave gashes inside a ring
shank...
And voila. You've got a setting plier for a lot less money than a
traditional
one, with a much wider range of sizes it will grip.

but you may well not need that either. While simple setting techniques

say
just
put the stone in the seat and bend the tips over the stone, there is

another
way. Here, you cut a seat, then bend the tips over, with normal needle

nose
pliers, to the same, or even further degree, that you would with the stone
in
place, but without the stone in place. Without the stone, you can just

grab
the
tip and bend it cleanly over with small pliers, with the plier jaw
maintaining a
crisp inner corner to the bend. clean up, with files, burrs, or whatever,
the
inner corner of the seat under that tip, if it needs it, till it's the

same
angle as the stone girdle, except slightly tighter (tip bent very slightly
too
far down) Now grab the entire prong, not just the tip, and bend it back a
little
bit from it's base, or where it attaches to the upper gallery level of the
head.
Just a little is enough. Do this to all, and if you've got it right, you
can
just barely slip the stone into the head despite the fact the tips are
already
bent over.

Now, with anything that can push, a prong pusher, graver handle, side of

a
plier jaw, your teeth, etc, push the prongs straight towards the stone.
They
won't go tight, of course, since they spring back, but you can move them
most of
the way. This is just to take up much of the movement needed, not to

tighten
the
stone. Now grasp the prongs by adjacent (side to side) pairs of prongs,

in
ordinary pliers, and squeeze them together slightly. They move towards

each
other, side to side, parallel to the girdle, rather than directly towards
the
stone. Go around the entire stone this way, each prong being grasped

twice,
bent first to one side (towards one neighbor), and then towards the other.
They'll end up evenly spaced again. But they'll also end up tight to the
stone,
since in this bending, a slight amount of movement is towards the stone.
Since
the side to side bending is much more, and is enough to overcome the

elastic
limits of the prong so it stays bent, the simultaneous bending towards the
stone
also stays there, without springing back away from the stone. When you're
doing
this, it is not necessary to get the prongs to bend side to side very

much.
Often, you're just slightly squeezing the prongs sideways, and it can seem
that
they haven't moved much or at all, yet when you're done going around the
stone,
somehow they've all tightened up on the stone a good deal. if needed, go
around
the stone more than once till the prongs are all nicely snugged up on the
stone.
This is all very gentle and modest, in terms of pressures used. You ease

up
on
getting things tight and secure, rather than needing to get it all at

once,
so
you don't damage the stone. It's surprising how fast this tightens the
prongs
on the stone, despite the fact that it seems you're bending the prongs

only
sideways. If you consider the actual directions the prongs bend, though,
you
realize that while most of the bending direction is sideways, a small

amount
of
the movement is indeed towards the stone.

This method of getting prongs to move towards the stone by moving them

side
to
side is what GIA called the "vector" technique of prong tightening, when
they
taught it in the stone setting class I took from them way too many years
ago.
Works very well. It's also often the best way to tighten loose stones in
existing jewelry. Since you never push the prong directly towards the
stone,
the stresses on the stone which might chip it, are much much less than if
you
simply tried to bend prongs directly towards the stone. And because you

can
precisely form and shape the seat of the stone without the stone there,
unexpected chips from a prong bending in a way you don't anticipate or
contacting wrong are much less. For some shapes of stones, like emerald
cuts,
where seats in the prongs need to be flat planes, rather than what a

setting
bur
cuts, you can define a precise angled seat with files and saws much more
easily
this way too, since you can get the angles just right without the stone

and
it's
fragile edges being at risk during the bending of the tip. The prong tips
are
bent slightly too much, so as you tighten the prong, the last bit of the
stone
to fully contact the seat is the girdle itself, as the prong tip hits the
stone
first at it's end, not at the girdle. The tip then actually relaxes
slightly
upwards as you tighten the prong. the girdle is the most fragile, so

having
the
prong contact first slightly up the crown facets is much safer, and

insures
that
in fighting to get that tip all the down flush to the stone you don't

break
the
stone, since this way, it starts out all the way down flush...

About the only real downside to this method is that because you have to
first
bend the prongs back at their base, you may need to clean up (rubber

wheel,
etc)
some ripple or bending marks down on the side of the head. But this seems
more
than made up for in that you then don't have as much trouble cleaning up

the
tips themselves, since you can get them mostly right before you insert the
stone.

Hope this helps.

Peter Rowe

*
Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com


 




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