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diamond buying
Hello.
when jewelers go to antwerp, or another major world diamond center to buy their diamonds at what price do they buy them at - what % of rapaport? I've been told that when diamond parcel buyers go to antwerp to handpick and buy their diamonds they usually pay 40% of rapaport. If I go to antwerp to buy a diamond parcel I want to be sure I pay what everybody else pays, not higher. For those of you in the trade, is this correct? if not, what % of rap? i know the answer varies from the quality and other characterisitics of the stones, but roughly generally speaking what % of rap? thanks for your time. Lawrence B. Lugar |
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#2
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Lawrence wrote:
Hello. when jewelers go to antwerp, or another major world diamond center to buy their diamonds at what price do they buy them at - what % of rapaport? I've been told that when diamond parcel buyers go to antwerp to handpick and buy their diamonds they usually pay 40% of rapaport. If I go to antwerp to buy a diamond parcel I want to be sure I pay what everybody else pays, not higher. Why? You are a jeweler or wholesaler? Is Rapaport a retail selling list? No? So why You do think to get the same price as a jeweler? Grüße, Heinrich Butschal -- www.juwelen.online-boerse.org www.meister-atelier.de www.schmuckfabrik.de www.medico.butschal.de |
#3
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I've been told that when diamond parcel buyers go to antwerp to handpick and
buy their diamonds they usually pay 40% of rapaport. If I go to antwerp to buy a diamond parcel I want to be sure I pay what everybody else pays, not higher. You won't even get a meeting with a real diamond dealer in Antwerp, you aren't in the business (assumed by your post). Why would they give Joe Shmoe off the street, the same price or courtsey, as someone who has done millions of dollars in business with them? For that matter, would you even be qualified to go through a parcel, if by some wild stretch of the imagination you got in to see a real wholesaler? Could you tell a VVS1, E from a VVS2, F? Could you tell a poorly cut stone from a well cut stone? Those differences alone, in a three carat stone, can amount to fifteen thousand dollars or so per stone. Could get kind of expensive in a parcel, if you don't know what you're doing. |
#4
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On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 09:26:30 -0700, in Ìô "Lawrence"
wrote: Hello. when jewelers go to antwerp, or another major world diamond center to buy their diamonds at what price do they buy them at - what % of rapaport? I've been told that when diamond parcel buyers go to antwerp to handpick and buy their diamonds they usually pay 40% of rapaport. If I go to antwerp to buy a diamond parcel I want to be sure I pay what everybody else pays, not higher The Rapaport list is not any sort of worldwide diamond price list. It's only one firms estimate of NEW YORK diamond market prices at a specified, and somewhat artificial and arbitrary pricing level, ie their idea of single stone, memo to a jeweler, prices. it's intended not as a real price list, but as a benchmark, which can be used by appraisers and dealers to track movements in prices. Actual buying and selling prices vary by differing amounts from the rap list depending on who you are, who you're buying from, what quantities your buying, how you're paying, and the like. And it's still just a market average. Prices for similar stones will vary from dealer to dealer. So asking what percentage off of rap you might get in antwerp is almost impossible to answer exactly. the list doesn't track overseas markets, nor does it track parcel purchases. Even amongst those who do buy regularly at the described level in antwerp, the relationship to the rap list at any one time will be quite variable. Going on a buying trip with just the rap list as a reference point is a recipe for disaster. You need a good amount of experience in the market, such that you no longer need a list like rappaport to know what stones will cost, and what you can sell them for back home. Secondly, it's important to understand that buying diamonds at the level you're hoping to do, is similar to doing the same thing at the New York Diamond dealers club. You don't even get into the door unless you're known, or have a very good introduction from someone who is. This isn't beginner territory, nor a place where strangers get in the door. Very much an "old boys" network sort of thing, both for security, and for traditional reasons. If you just go to Antwerp hoping to buy diamonds, you may well get in the door at various cutting factories or the like, but without those prior introductions, and the sellers being already well aquanted with and assured of your trustworthyness and financial ability to be buying in quantity, then the prices you'll be offered won't approach those offered to those known to be true wholesale buyers. As much as anything, this is a matter of those sellers making sure they're not pulling the rug out from under their known long time customers, who otherwise might be selling to you here in the States. It can be quite difficult for even well placed and financed newcomers to break into that whole world, even in New York. Harder still in Antwerp. If you can make the needed connections with those who can guide and introduce you to that market, then you won't need to go there with a rap list in hand. Peter |
#5
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"NE333RO" wrote in message ... I've been told that when diamond parcel buyers go to antwerp to handpick and buy their diamonds they usually pay 40% of rapaport. If I go to antwerp to buy a diamond parcel I want to be sure I pay what everybody else pays, not higher. You won't even get a meeting with a real diamond dealer in Antwerp, you aren't in the business (assumed by your post). Why would they give Joe Shmoe off the street, the same price or courtsey, as someone who has done millions of dollars in business with them? For that matter, would you even be qualified to go through a parcel, if by some wild stretch of the imagination you got in to see a real wholesaler? Could you tell a VVS1, E from a VVS2, F? Could you tell a poorly cut stone from a well cut stone? Those differences alone, in a three carat stone, can amount to fifteen thousand dollars or so per stone. Could get kind of expensive in a parcel, if you don't know what you're doing. So you go to the 'Spring Fair' in Birmingham, England. See www.springfair.com for details You'll need a 'Jewellery Hall' ticket, you won't get in on an ordinary one, but any UK Jewellery wholesaler or Jewellery equipment supplier will give you one if you ask. You go and see the Benelux Diamond Syndicate and De Beers, and a couple of dozen other stone merchants, and then buy what you want at trade prices. Everybody there is selling stuff at discounted prices, including the stone sellers, especially the Far Eastern companies who don't have a UK agent and are just there to sell their stock in the show week. The big players won't rip you off, they've far too much to loose. -- William Black ------------------ Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government |
#6
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Lawrence wrote:
Hello. when jewelers go to antwerp, or another major world diamond center to buy their diamonds at what price do they buy them at - what % of rapaport? I've been told that when diamond parcel buyers go to antwerp to handpick and buy their diamonds they usually pay 40% of rapaport. Who told you this? If I go to antwerp to buy a diamond parcel I want to be sure I pay what everybody else pays, not higher. Not a snowball's chance in Hell! Stay home! For those of you in the trade, is this correct? No, not even close. In order to buy diamonds wholesale in Antwerp, you either have to be a member of one of the four diamond clubs (http://www.blankadiamonds.be/diamonds/antwerp.htm) or have a very good introduction by one of it's members to one of these clubs. If youare not buying at the clubs, you are not buying wholesale, no matter what you think or are being told. I have been going to Antwerp ever since I was a very little boy. My uncle Joseph had a small jewelry store on the Pelikaanstraat across the street oif the railway station. I never set foot in one of the clubs. if not, what % of rap? i know the answer varies from the quality and other characterisitics of the stones, No, the answer varies "from the quality and other characterisitics" of the buyer. And lastly, sellers in Antwerp do not care all that much about the Rapaport list. It is a list mostly used in the US, and is a GUIDELINE to prices only, not a price list. Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com |
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