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Market for imperfect gemstones?



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 4th 09, 05:25 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Graver
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14
Default Market for imperfect gemstones?

On Mar 1, 3:48*am, Jman wrote:
On Feb 27, 9:03*pm, "Don T" wrote:

*http://www.original-diamonds.com/edu...e_diamonds.php


*These are the browns that come from Australia. Several links on that page
that I didn't explore but after several postings no-one seemed aware of the
Australian browns and the marketing strategy which changed rather common and
not so desirable brown stones into a good profit scheme.


--


Don Thompson
...snip...


Hmmmm, that is rather odd. *Some of the pricing structure of different
vendors is waaay off the map, it seems. *I found a few of the 'raw
diamonds' that I was looking for (locally) and they wanted an arm and
part of a leg for them..... *I don't believe I'll be using them for a
project in the very near future due to their present cost. *I think
maybe I'll head on over the the Lapidary shop and pick up some
different types of rock and stones to experiment with instead. *It's
mind boggling how many stones, metals and rocks are available in those
places now....

Cheers,

/FC....



Hello Everyone,


I just saw a topic on the Discovery Channel about the company in
Fla. called Gemesis, which by the way has been producing manmade
diamonds for a few years now, has found a way to produce a diamond
that is 100 times harder then a natrual diamond. They can grow the new
stone which is about five carats in six hours. These stones are going
to be more suited for cutting tools and also electronic components,
but it won't be long before manmade diamonds are able to compete in
the market place. The company already grows a yellow diamond that is
nondetectable from a real one. Diamond prices have been falling for
about a year as Russia and Canada bring top quality stones into the
market. It's only a mater of time before Debeers is going to lose it's
monopoly on diamonds.

Mark
Ads
  #12  
Old March 4th 09, 05:47 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Peter W. Rowe[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 115
Default Market for imperfect gemstones?

On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 08:25:57 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Graver
wrote:


Hello Everyone,


I just saw a topic on the Discovery Channel about the company in
Fla. called Gemesis, which by the way has been producing manmade
diamonds for a few years now, has found a way to produce a diamond
that is 100 times harder then a natrual diamond. They can grow the new
stone which is about five carats in six hours. These stones are going
to be more suited for cutting tools and also electronic components,
but it won't be long before manmade diamonds are able to compete in
the market place. The company already grows a yellow diamond that is
nondetectable from a real one. Diamond prices have been falling for
about a year as Russia and Canada bring top quality stones into the
market. It's only a mater of time before Debeers is going to lose it's
monopoly on diamonds.

Mark


Recheck your data. The Gemesis stones aren't 100 times harder than natural
diamonds. They are slightly harder in use, and tougher (more difficult to
chip). This may equate to many times longer life in cutting tools, but it's not
quite that much harder in actual hardness (there is a difference between
hardness and toughness.) The currently well known Gemesis stones, the yellow
ones, are very much the same as natural diamonds in hardness and toughness, and
are marketed to the jewelry trade. So far, they don't yet grow colorless ones
economically (costs more than natural stones, still, to get them colorless,
though that is likely to change)

The stones you refer to as harder, are that way because, like the ones grown
usually as thin films by Chemical vapor deposition, they are polycrystaline
(lots of very tiny intergrown crystals, rather than one single one). Diamond
varies in hardness and toughness according to the direction in the crystal, so a
mass of many random orientated crystals looks like the hardest and toughest
directions at the same time, in all directions. That accounts for the greater
apparent hardness and toughness. But that 100 times factor is not quite
accurate, I think. The basic crystal lattice structure of the synthetics
remains the same, so the main difference is that polycrystaline nature. That's
important, of course, for cutting tools. But do also keep in mind that the
likelyhood of that type of stone being used for gems is minimal, simply because
that greater hardness and toughness would mean they'd be almost impossible to
cut and polish into gems by conventional means (which relies on the avarage
harder nature of a random diamond grit over the crystal being cut, in the same
way the polycrystaline stones are harder overall.) The effort and time needed
to cut and polish polycrystaline stones, if they can grown them transparent at
all, or at least economically, would likely offset the lower cost of the
crystal. At least for the short term future. Who knows what will happen longer
term.

Don't discount the difficulty in growing colorless stones over the yellow ones.
It's substantial, not a trivial difference. And for the record, both Russia and
Canada are not new sources. They've been around for a while. It's easy to say
DeBeers will loose it's monopoly, but that's been forcast for 20 years, and
hasn't happened yet. Among other things, it's not in the interest of the
independent sellers to compete too much with DeBeers, as that would lower the
prices they can get for their own stones. DeBeers marketing models are changing
to fit the times, and they are likely to remain a force for some time.

Most likely, the effects of synthetic diamond will be strongest in the technical
fields, such as electronics. There, the potential for the stuff is enormous,
the pressure to develop such materials is strong, and the possible advances in
electronics that such material might offer are substantial enough that such uses
are likely to not only offer much more incentive than the gem market, but also
much more potential financial gain for producers. Indeed, most of the research
into synthetic diamond production seems aimed in that direction.

By the way, that Super Diamonds show on the Discovery Channel was fun and
interesting. But remember, like any media information source, there can be
errors of ommision or fact, and the shows tend to present the points of view
that will most advance their goal of being watched by a wide audience. That can
skew the data a bit. Remember that the show producers, though they may be
talking to scientists and researchers, are still TV producers and journalists,
not scientists themselves. If they're talking to the owners of companies
promoting their synthetics, guess what sort of point of view they're going to
get... Discovery Channel is usually pretty good, and this show is no
exception. But it's still journalism, with it's own agenda, And that agenda
is not always a totally impartial examination of all sides of an issue.

Peter
  #13  
Old March 5th 09, 05:47 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
FC...
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14
Default Market for imperfect gemstones?

By the way, that Super Diamonds show on the Discovery Channel was fun and
interesting. *But remember, like any media information source, there can be
errors of ommision or fact, and the shows tend to present the points of view
that will most advance their goal of being watched by a wide audience. *That can
skew the data a bit. * Remember that the show producers, though they may be
talking to scientists and researchers, are still TV producers and journalists,
not scientists themselves. *If they're talking to the owners of companies
promoting their synthetics, guess what sort of point of view they're going to
get... * Discovery Channel is usually pretty good, and this show is no
exception. *But it's still journalism, with it's own agenda, * And that agenda
is not always a totally impartial examination of all sides of an issue.

Peter


Yeah, it's kinda' like watching "Mythbusters" episodes of 'what they
prove' to be true..untrue. Their show on whether or not the moon
landings were real was a RIOT ! hahaha, I've never SEEN two guys SO
BIASED on what THEY perceived as the truth ! I completely lost any
respect I 'might' have had for those two CLOWNS and that show...

/FC....
  #14  
Old March 5th 09, 05:51 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Peter W. Rowe[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 115
Default Market for imperfect gemstones?

On Thu, 05 Mar 2009 08:47:00 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry "FC..."
wrote:

Yeah, it's kinda' like watching "Mythbusters" episodes of 'what they
prove' to be true..untrue. Their show on whether or not the moon
landings were real was a RIOT ! hahaha, I've never SEEN two guys SO
BIASED on what THEY perceived as the truth ! I completely lost any
respect I 'might' have had for those two CLOWNS and that show...

/FC....


One of the aspects of being a literate consumer of media is understanding what a
given show or information source IS, and what it IS NOT. Mythbusters is not
news, or science. It's Entertainment. And in that, it's great fun, true or
not. The same can be said for shows claiming to search for ghosts, or claiming
a game show can unite two people in a truly loving marriage forever... Fun.
Bring on the popcorn etc. But keep your wits about you. Still, many shows
that are entertaining, ALSO provide useful information. Discovery channel and
Science channel, and Nova shows, and others, often provide good information. But
they always also have to be good entertainment, or nobody will watch. Good to
keep in mind.

Peter
  #15  
Old March 7th 09, 06:38 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Graver
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14
Default Market for imperfect gemstones?

On Mar 5, 11:51*am, Peter W. Rowe
wrote:
On Thu, 05 Mar 2009 08:47:00 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry "FC..."

wrote:
Yeah, it's kinda' like watching "Mythbusters" episodes of 'what they
prove' to be true..untrue. *Their show on whether or not the moon
landings were real was a RIOT ! *hahaha, I've never SEEN two guys SO
BIASED on what THEY perceived as the truth ! *I completely lost any
respect I 'might' have had for those two CLOWNS and that show...


/FC....


One of the aspects of being a literate consumer of media is understanding what a
given show or information source IS, and what it IS NOT. *Mythbusters is not
news, or science. *It's Entertainment. *And in that, it's great fun, true or
not. * The same can be said for shows claiming to search for ghosts, or claiming
a game show can unite two people in a truly loving marriage forever... * Fun.
Bring on the popcorn etc. * But keep your wits about you. * Still, many shows
that are entertaining, ALSO provide useful information. *Discovery channel and
Science channel, and Nova shows, and others, often provide good information. But
they always also have to be good entertainment, or nobody will watch. * Good to
keep in mind.

Peter







Gee Guys,

I thought this was a forum about exchanging ideas and tips that we
have found to be useful and helpful to one another. I can see that
you're more involved in listening to yourself rant then to ever
consider that you might be going off topic just to discredit someones
comment about a subject. I heard a guy on the radio that follows this
same train of thought, RUSH LIMBAUGH and he's a drug addict.
  #16  
Old March 7th 09, 06:48 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Peter W. Rowe[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 115
Default Market for imperfect gemstones?

On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 21:38:43 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Graver
wrote:


Gee Guys,

I thought this was a forum about exchanging ideas and tips that we
have found to be useful and helpful to one another. I can see that
you're more involved in listening to yourself rant then to ever
consider that you might be going off topic just to discredit someones
comment about a subject. I heard a guy on the radio that follows this
same train of thought, RUSH LIMBAUGH and he's a drug addict.


Rush L? Now who's going off topic...

Actually, the thread started on topic enough, talking about a show on synthetic
diamonds. The thread only diverged from that to comment on the limits of the
media. That wasn't discrediting anything or anyone's comments, only mentioning
that the show in question, like any information or opinion (including yours, or
mine) has it's limits. Please don't overly exaggerate what was said.

And for the record, while exchanging ideas and tips that might be useful is
indeed one prime function of this newsgroup, it's actually appropriate to
discuss any jewelry related topic, so long as the discussion does not violate
the charter restrictions on advertising or personal attack/flames. So far, this
thread has done neither. Nor, it seems to me, has it particularly gotten
especially extreme in any opinions. Maybe a bit on the one initial mythbusters
comment, but that was merely an illustrative example, not the point of the post
in question. The topic of the thread was, and essentially remains, the nature
of that show in synthetic diamonds and the limits to the information therein
that should be kept in mind.

Relax.

Peter Rowe
moderator
rec.crafts.jewelry

  #17  
Old March 10th 09, 04:08 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Abrasha
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 298
Default Market for imperfect gemstones?

Jman wrote:


I am however, still having a tough time finding those Diamonds that
look like the one's in "Todd Reed and others works". It looks like
I'm going to have to keep looking for awhile.


Contact Todd directly. He may sell you some. He uses hundreds if not
thousands of carats a year.

Tell him Abrasha sent you.

--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com
  #18  
Old March 10th 09, 04:08 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Abrasha
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 298
Default Market for imperfect gemstones?

Graver wrote:
On Mar 5, 11:51 am, Peter W. Rowe
wrote:
On Thu, 05 Mar 2009 08:47:00 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry "FC..."

wrote:
Yeah, it's kinda' like watching "Mythbusters" episodes of 'what they
prove' to be true..untrue. Their show on whether or not the moon
landings were real was a RIOT ! hahaha, I've never SEEN two guys SO
BIASED on what THEY perceived as the truth ! I completely lost any
respect I 'might' have had for those two CLOWNS and that show...
/FC....

One of the aspects of being a literate consumer of media is understanding what a
given show or information source IS, and what it IS NOT. Mythbusters is not
news, or science. It's Entertainment. And in that, it's great fun, true or
not. The same can be said for shows claiming to search for ghosts, or claiming
a game show can unite two people in a truly loving marriage forever... Fun.
Bring on the popcorn etc. But keep your wits about you. Still, many shows
that are entertaining, ALSO provide useful information. Discovery channel and
Science channel, and Nova shows, and others, often provide good information. But
they always also have to be good entertainment, or nobody will watch. Good to
keep in mind.

Peter







Gee Guys,

I thought this was a forum about exchanging ideas and tips that we
have found to be useful and helpful to one another. I can see that
you're more involved in listening to yourself rant then to ever
consider that you might be going off topic just to discredit someones
comment about a subject. I heard a guy on the radio that follows this
same train of thought, RUSH LIMBAUGH and he's a drug addict.



What? Have you taken your medication today?

--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com
  #19  
Old March 11th 09, 03:26 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
FC...
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14
Default Market for imperfect gemstones?

On Mar 9, 9:08 pm, Abrasha wrote:
Jman wrote:

I am however, still having a tough time finding those Diamonds that
look like the one's in "Todd Reed and others works". It looks like
I'm going to have to keep looking for awhile.


Contact Todd directly. He may sell you some. He uses hundreds if not
thousands of carats a year.

Tell him Abrasha sent you.

--
Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com


Alright,

I'll do that...

Thanks,

/FC...
 




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