Market for imperfect gemstones?

In another newsgroup someone made the claim that the existance of
synthetic gemstones had not affected the market for natural ones.
I would have thought that the market for less-than-perfect gemstones,
at the typical-American-consumer level would have disappeared once
perfect synthetics started competing with them. I am not of course
counting lapidarists, rockhounds, etc. who appreciate natural stones
for themselves. But taking myself as an example, an imperfect
emerald in its original columnar crystaline form and still attached
to a bit of matrix rock is a thing of beauty and worth collecting;
facet it into a traditional "emerald" shape, and I would find nothing
to make me desire it over a flawless lab grown gem.

So what is the straight scoop? Are less-than-perfect natural gemstones
prefered over perfect lab grown ones at the retail level?

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On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 01:05:25 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry
(Paul Ciszek) wrote:


So what is the straight scoop? Are less-than-perfect natural gemstones
prefered over perfect lab grown ones at the retail level?


Usually, yes.

The effect of synthetics on the gem market has been interesting over the hundred
years or so that various synthetics have come on the market.

By making a great looking yet inexpensive version of a gem available at all, the
public's awareness and appreciation of colored gems has increased. Overall
demand for gems, both natural and synthetic has been increased by the
synthetic's availability.

And an interesting effect: Because many of the cheapest synthetics are
virtually flawless, similarly flawless natural stones end up being confused with
synthetics. The result is an increase in the demand for some of the less
perfect natural stones, since their pedegree as natural is much more evident. In
some cases, such as amethyst, where the synthetic is not only almost always
flawless, but is also quite difficult to identify as such even by jewelers,
what's happened is that the price of the finest natural qualities, with which
the synthetics compete, has actually fallen some, while the natural stones with
a few inclusions, has risen.

In general, early fears that synthetics would replace naturals has not proven to
be the case. The demand is not just for the look or durability, etc, of good
gemstones, but also considerably for the rarity of fine natural stones. It's
that rarity, exclusivity, natural origin, mystique, and maybe even just plain
snob appear, even when the naturals are not really all that rare (like diamond)
that drives this. Synthetics support the lower end of the market so people who
like the look fine gems but cannot afford the natural ones, still get much of
the enjoyment. Meanwhile, those same synthetics increase the appeal, demand
for, and price, of the rare finest gems.

Peter Rowe G.G.

On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 01:05:25 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry
(Paul Ciszek) wrote:


So what is the straight scoop? Are less-than-perfect natural gemstones
prefered over perfect lab grown ones at the retail level?


Usually, yes.

The effect of synthetics on the gem market has been interesting over the hundred
years or so that various synthetics have come on the market.

By making a great looking yet inexpensive version of a gem available at all, the
public's awareness and appreciation of colored gems has increased. Overall
demand for gems, both natural and synthetic has been increased by the
synthetic's availability.

And an interesting effect: Because many of the cheapest synthetics are
virtually flawless, similarly flawless natural stones end up being confused with
synthetics. The result is an increase in the demand for some of the less
perfect natural stones, since their pedegree as natural is much more evident. In
some cases, such as amethyst, where the synthetic is not only almost always
flawless, but is also quite difficult to identify as such even by jewelers,
what's happened is that the price of the finest natural qualities, with which
the synthetics compete, has actually fallen some, while the natural stones with
a few inclusions, has risen.

In general, early fears that synthetics would replace naturals has not proven to
be the case. The demand is not just for the look or durability, etc, of good
gemstones, but also considerably for the rarity of fine natural stones. It's
that rarity, exclusivity, natural origin, mystique, and maybe even just plain
snob appear, even when the naturals are not really all that rare (like diamond)
that drives this. Synthetics support the lower end of the market so people who
like the look fine gems but cannot afford the natural ones, still get much of
the enjoyment. Meanwhile, those same synthetics increase the appeal, demand
for, and price, of the rare finest gems.

Peter Rowe G.G.

On Feb 23, 2:16*am, Peter W. Rowe
wrote:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 01:05:25 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry

(Paul Ciszek) wrote:

So what is the straight scoop? *Are less-than-perfect natural gemstones
prefered over perfect lab grown ones at the retail level?

Usually, yes.

The effect of synthetics on the gem market has been interesting over the hundred
years or so that various synthetics have come on the market.

By making a great looking yet inexpensive version of a gem available at all, the
public's awareness and appreciation of colored gems has increased. *Overall
demand for gems, both natural and synthetic has been increased by the
synthetic's availability.

And an interesting effect: *Because many of the cheapest synthetics are
virtually flawless, similarly flawless natural stones end up being confused with
synthetics. *The result is an increase in the demand for some of the less
perfect natural stones, since their pedegree as natural is much more evident. In
some cases, such as amethyst, *where the synthetic is not only almost always
flawless, but is also quite difficult to identify as such even by jewelers,
what's happened is that the price of the finest natural qualities, with which
the synthetics compete, has actually fallen some, while the natural stones with
a few inclusions, has risen.

In general, early fears that synthetics would replace naturals has not proven to
be the case. *The demand is not just for the look or durability, etc, of good
gemstones, but also considerably for the rarity of fine natural stones. * It's
that rarity, exclusivity, natural origin, mystique, *and maybe even just plain
snob appear, even when the naturals are not really all that rare (like diamond)
that drives this. * Synthetics support the lower end of the market so people who
like the look fine gems but cannot afford the natural ones, still get much of
the enjoyment. *Meanwhile, those same synthetics increase the appeal, demand
for, and price, of the rare finest gems. *

Peter Rowe G.G.


That's pretty interesting stuff.... Makes sense too.

I have a question concerning RAW diamond or Utility diamond as some
refer to it. It's typically brownish in color. Do you know the type
of which I am refferring to ? I would like to obtain some of that
stone and don't know where to get it. I wouldn't mind finding a
respectable supplier of those 'slightly' included stones of which you
both mentioned as well....

Cheers,

/FC....

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:06:32 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Jman
wrote:


I have a question concerning RAW diamond or Utility diamond as some
refer to it. It's typically brownish in color. Do you know the type
of which I am refferring to ? I would like to obtain some of that
stone and don't know where to get it.

Usually called industrial diamond or just uncut diamond crystals. RAW simply
means uncut, which could be gem grade or not. That word is not a common used
one, at least not that I've seen. Uncut, natural crystals, etc. yes. Utility?
never heard that word applied to diamonds at all, but maybe I've been living in
a cave or something.. As to a source, for true industrial stuff, normally used
for cutting tools, I can't help you, at least not in usably larger sizes.
Abrasive grit is easily enough found through lapidary dealers. But for better
looking/attractive natural diamond crystals, you can find a number of sellers on
ebay, and usually the gem shows that commonly travel around the country often
have at least a few dealers who'll happen to have a few decent looking diamond
cube crystals as specimin pieces. A couple of the ebay sellers often have nice
natural crystals that are actually bordering on gem grade, or even gem grade.
I've seen some quite white and mostly clear looking octahedral crystals offered.
Some might even be cutable. More expensive than the typically non-transparent
little cubic crystals you also see offered. A number of well known art
jewelers enjoy using these stone in preference to the typical cut gems. Totally
different look, yet still diamond. By the way, colors, while often in the
yellow to brown range, can be a wider range. Milky white to grey, for example,
is also common.

I wouldn't mind finding a
respectable supplier of those 'slightly' included stones of which you
both mentioned as well....

Any decent gem dealer will have such. Most natural gemstones fall into that
catagory with at least some inclusions. Those few gem types that are commonly
available in a pretty clean state, are still available with more inclusions,
usually pretty cheaply. Again, such stones are not hard to find. They make up
the bulk of the gemstone trade. That includes diamonds, as well, by the way.
Any decent diamond dealer will have a good supply, maybe a majority with some
dealers, of the at least slightly visibly (sometimes with a bit of
magnification) included stones, than really clean ones. Flawless natural
diamonds are quite rare, not to mention rather costly..

Peter

On Feb 25, 1:21*am, Peter W. Rowe
wrote:
On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:06:32 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Jman

wrote:

I have a question concerning RAW diamond or Utility diamond as some
refer to it. *It's typically brownish in color. *Do you know the type
of which I am refferring to ? *I would like to obtain some of that
stone and don't know where to get it.

Usually called industrial diamond or just uncut diamond crystals. *RAW simply
means uncut, which could be gem grade or not. *That word is not a common used
one, at least not that I've seen. *Uncut, natural crystals, etc. yes. Utility?
never heard that word applied to diamonds at all, but maybe I've been living in
a cave or something.. *As to a source, for true industrial stuff, normally used
for cutting tools, I can't help you, at least not in usably larger sizes.
Abrasive grit is easily enough found through lapidary dealers. *But for better
looking/attractive natural diamond crystals, you can find a number of sellers on
ebay, and usually the gem shows that commonly travel around the country often
have at least a few dealers who'll happen to have a few decent looking diamond
cube crystals as specimin pieces. *A couple of the ebay sellers often have nice
natural crystals that are actually bordering on gem grade, or even gem grade.
I've seen some quite white and mostly clear looking octahedral crystals offered.
Some might even be cutable. * More expensive than the typically non-transparent
little cubic crystals you also see offered. * A number of well known art
jewelers enjoy using these stone in preference to the typical cut gems. *Totally
different look, yet still diamond. * *By the way, colors, while often in the
yellow to brown range, can be a wider range. *Milky white to grey, for example,
is also common.

I wouldn't mind finding a
respectable supplier of those 'slightly' included stones of which you
both mentioned as well....

Any decent gem dealer will have such. *Most natural gemstones fall into that
catagory with at least some inclusions. *Those few gem types that are commonly
available in a pretty clean state, are still available with more inclusions,
usually pretty cheaply. *Again, such stones are not hard to find. *They make up
the bulk of the gemstone trade. *That includes diamonds, as well, by the way.
Any decent diamond dealer will have a good supply, maybe a majority with some
dealers, of the at least slightly visibly (sometimes with a bit of
magnification) included stones, than really clean ones. * Flawless natural
diamonds are quite rare, not to mention rather costly..

Peter


Yes,

You are correct. My terminology was poor as a descriptor.... The
diamond I am referring to is indeed the 'natural diamond' (see link
provided). The amount and quality of diamonds coming out of the
Kimberlite pipes in Alberta and surrounding Provinces are supposed to
be world class, so you WOULD THINK that they would be EASY to find
here...... Not so.... I think DeBeers likely has enough money
invested in these projects that they get first crack at anything
coming out of the ground. I would have assumed that RAW diamond would
have been far less expensive compared to a carefully 'cut and crafted
stone'.

http://www.khulsey.com/jewelry/rough...d_jewelry.html

Cheers,

/FC....

On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 08:12:59 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Jman
wrote:

The amount and quality of diamonds coming out of the
Kimberlite pipes in Alberta and surrounding Provinces are supposed to
be world class, so you WOULD THINK that they would be EASY to find
here...... Not so.... I think DeBeers likely has enough money
invested in these projects that they get first crack at anything
coming out of the ground.

Whether or not DeBeers has anything to do with it is not the point. No dealer
would sell you a fine gem grade rough cheaply, if, with a bit of effort on the
part of a cutter, the value could be increased many times. If he'll sell you
such rough, it will be at a price proportional to it's potential as a cut stone.
And finding a dealer who'll bother with a retail buyer at all, is your real
problem. These folks deal in quantities, and large amounts of money. You can't
walk into the main factory floor at GM, and buy a car. You have to go through
the dealers who sell the finished goods. Same situation, but made all the more
so because of concerns with security. The high values mean that they're very
choosy about whom they'll do business with at all.

I would have assumed that RAW diamond would
have been far less expensive compared to a carefully 'cut and crafted
stone'.

http://www.khulsey.com/jewelry/rough...d_jewelry.html

Note that for the most part, those pretty little cubes that Todd Reed and others
feature in their work, are NOT cuttable gem grade. That's one reason they can
find them for sale. And indeed, the prices per carat are Much less than the
prices per carat for cut stones. But you still have to go through at least
some semblance of the usual distribution channels. In this case, that would be
finding a gem and mineral dealer who sells such crystals.

By the way, just because the Canadian mines produce lots of high quality rough
doesn't mean you'd be able to find lots of these decorative lower quality goods.
different mines have different characteristics in terms of the type of crystals
they usually find. While I don't know whether these little cubes are not common
in the Canadian mines, I do know that the one's I've bought and seen in the past
have not been Canadian sourced. It's always possible that such rough just isn't
as common in the Canadian mines...

Peter