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#11
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Asbestos
"Frosty" wrote in message news I want some. In powdered form. Anyone know where I can purchase some? I'm certain that what you are talking about is not asbestos. It's a product I used in the trade shops years ago called "Feldina". A fine gray flaky powder, soft and easily compressed that was mixed with water to form a paste to heat protect stones in jewelry while soldering. It's probably a feldspar based product, but it is definitely not asbestos. Gesswein used to carry it up till about a year ago but it is no longer being manufactured. |
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#12
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Asbestos
In rec.crafts.jewelry almost on Sun, 26 Aug 2007 00:34:59 -0700 a
smoke signal from "David L. Huffman" rang out, which was heard to say : "Frosty" wrote in message news I want some. In powdered form. Anyone know where I can purchase some? I'm certain that what you are talking about is not asbestos. It's a product I used in the trade shops years ago called "Feldina". A fine gray flaky powder, soft and easily compressed that was mixed with water to form a paste to heat protect stones in jewelry while soldering. It's probably a feldspar based product, but it is definitely not asbestos. Gesswein used to carry it up till about a year ago but it is no longer being manufactured. Well, it was called Asbestos. And it sure looked like asbestos, and one could pour the can out dry on ones hand and aim a natgas-n- oxy torch at it and ones hand stayed cool. No, I think it was asbestos. |
#13
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Asbestos
Breathing in one particle of asbestos can lead to asbestosis - a
particulary nasty cancer of the lungs which kills more people than any other single work-related cause.There is a long delay between first exposure to asbestos and the start of the disease. This can vary between 15 and 60 years Best not to even think of going near the stuff. |
#14
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Asbestos
On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 23:15:13 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry silverstall
wrote: Breathing in one particle of asbestos can lead to asbestosis - a particulary nasty cancer of the lungs which kills more people than any other single work-related cause.There is a long delay between first exposure to asbestos and the start of the disease. This can vary between 15 and 60 years Best not to even think of going near the stuff. While I don't specifically disagree with any of that, especially the thought that one might be best off not using asbestos, I can't resist taking just a little issue with the "just one particle" bit. While that certainly is possible, it's also certainly not probable. As with most carcinogens, and even most pathogens, in most cases, the chances of disease occurance increases with exposure. Exposure to a single particle does give rise to some risk, but it would be a statistically extremely small number of people who'd be harmed by one particle. At most risk are those with high levels of chronic repeated exposure over time. At some level of that, development of the disease becomes almost a certainty. At single particle exposure levels, I think you'd have trouble finding measurable occurances of the disease in even large populations, or at least, you'd have trouble separating that disease population from any "background" normal level not associated with asbestos. And given that asbestos is a naturally occuring mineral, not to mention something that's been used and abused by humans for some time, It's likely that everyone on the planet is or has been exposed to at least some small level of asbestos, simply through asbestos particles carried as dust in the air. It's not an especially dense mineral, and a fibrous form of mineral would more easily become airborne. I don't have actual figures to support this, but I'd be very surprised if careful analalysis of common dust didn't now and then find minute traces of asbestos already there, just about anywhere on the planet. Asbestos is a problem because it's fibrous nature means particles are not easily transported back out of the lungs by normal cilia activity (The same applies to certain sizes and shapes (sharp) of silica particles). The lung normally is capable of eliminating contaminant particles that we breath in normally. it's those particles capable of imbedding themselves in the cells that are most able to cause a problem, and asbestos fits this description. But even so, most occasional particles are likely removed by the lung normally. It's the percentage, perhaps small, that isn't, that causes trouble, and that trouble increases with exposure, since then the lung gets damaged further, and less able to deal with the contaminants, so the situation snowballs. While I agree that asbestos is not a material that we normally need to use, and which presents unacceptable levels of health risk in many cases, to imply that a single particle is a risk worth worrying about is roughly the same as cautioning people not to walk outside because they might get hit by a meteor or falling space debris. It's not impossible, and may even have nappened now and then. But it's not a statistical likelihood worth loosing sleep over. Peter |
#15
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Asbestos
Hi Peter,
I was actually making a quote from a HSE letter i received 6 years ago when we forced to vacate an entire shopping mall (drake circus - plymouth) which was subsqeuntly demolished. I queried their statement and they quoted expert witnesses from a series of cases brought against the ministry of defence by former Dockyard workers for asbestosis. My gut feeling is that the HSE, the courts and other agencies have overreacted however because we live in a world increasingly fearful of legal claims they would rather err on the side of caution than take any risk no matter how statistically improbable that may be. |
#16
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Asbestos
In rec.crafts.jewelry almost on Mon, 10 Sep 2007 22:08:44 -0700 a
smoke signal from silverstall rang out, which was heard to say : Hi Peter, I was actually making a quote from a HSE letter i received 6 years ago when we forced to vacate an entire shopping mall (drake circus - plymouth) which was subsqeuntly demolished. I queried their statement and they quoted expert witnesses from a series of cases brought against the ministry of defence by former Dockyard workers for asbestosis. My gut feeling is that the HSE, the courts and other agencies have overreacted however because we live in a world increasingly fearful of legal claims they would rather err on the side of caution than take any risk no matter how statistically improbable that may be. I originally posted my desire to obtain asbestos. A person on Orchid promised to send me some but never did. I don't believe half of the scare-stories repeated by the hand-wringers in society. I still want some asbestos, preferably in dry, powdered form. FWIW, I use cyanide-based plating solutions too. Do you know that just one teaspoon of cyanide can kill a whole ****-load of people?? Oh dear! yawn |
#17
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Asbestos
"Frosty" wrote in message ... I still want some asbestos, preferably in dry, powdered form. FWIW, I use cyanide-based plating solutions too. Do you know that just one teaspoon of cyanide can kill a whole ****-load of people?? Oh dear! yawn If you're using cyanide in the UK you'll have the appropriate permissions and training. Similar permissions and training are required for the handling and management of asbestos. -- William Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. |
#18
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Asbestos
In rec.crafts.jewelry almost on Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:07:21 -0700 a
smoke signal from "William Black" rang out, which was heard to say : "Frosty" wrote in message .. . I still want some asbestos, preferably in dry, powdered form. FWIW, I use cyanide-based plating solutions too. Do you know that just one teaspoon of cyanide can kill a whole ****-load of people?? Oh dear! yawn If you're using cyanide in the UK you'll have the appropriate permissions and training. Similar permissions and training are required for the handling and management of asbestos. I yawn in your general direction. (apologies to Monty Python) |
#19
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Asbestos
Frosty wrote:
In rec.crafts.jewelry almost on Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:07:21 -0700 a smoke signal from "William Black" rang out, which was heard to say : "Frosty" wrote in message . .. I still want some asbestos, preferably in dry, powdered form. FWIW, I use cyanide-based plating solutions too. Do you know that just one teaspoon of cyanide can kill a whole ****-load of people?? Oh dear! yawn If you're using cyanide in the UK you'll have the appropriate permissions and training. Similar permissions and training are required for the handling and management of asbestos. I yawn in your general direction. (apologies to Monty Python) Hi Frosty, As your still wth us!! then I guess your careful enough not to mix cyanide with acid. Also do you have the essential antidote right to hand? if this worst case scenario happened? Just curious. Im all for making up my own rules but also make the appropriate safety measures. The gvmt dept charged with implementing all these health and safety regulations have 4 officers covering an area some 100 miles by 50 miles. They spend most of their time sitting in their local offices doing paperwork. they havnt a hope in hell in adequately policing all and every business in that area let alone anyone working on their own in a shed somewhere. So the chances of being caught are practically nill. To give you ane example of the stupidity of the regulations. you can transport say 50 new car batteries filled with h2so4 quite legally. as there not classified as waste. BUT you cannot transport 50 identical batteries that are now dead, ie sulfated up to your recycling center., where you get a dollar each for the lead content. the recycling center have a 38 ton artic that has these batteries tipped into the steel body, and then driven some 270 miles to the recycling plant. Thats done at night when the vehicle checking stations are closed. En route all the acid thats running out of the upside down batteries drips all the way !!. Is there any check? no theres not. So much for health and safety. Ted also in the UK. |
#20
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Asbestos
In rec.crafts.jewelry almost on Wed, 26 Sep 2007 08:38:28 -0700 a
smoke signal from Ted Frater rang out, which was heard to say : Frosty wrote: In rec.crafts.jewelry almost on Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:07:21 -0700 a smoke signal from "William Black" rang out, which was heard to say : "Frosty" wrote in message ... I still want some asbestos, preferably in dry, powdered form. FWIW, I use cyanide-based plating solutions too. Do you know that just one teaspoon of cyanide can kill a whole ****-load of people?? Oh dear! yawn If you're using cyanide in the UK you'll have the appropriate permissions and training. Similar permissions and training are required for the handling and management of asbestos. I yawn in your general direction. (apologies to Monty Python) Hi Frosty, As your still wth us!! then I guess your careful enough not to mix cyanide with acid. And what, pray tell, do you imagine might happen? Do you have a clue the allowable ratios? (According to the American Association of Poison Control Centers Toxic Exposure Surveillance System, in 2004, 8 fatalities occurred out of 257 total cyanide exposures.) Also do you have the essential antidote right to hand? if this worst case scenario happened? Well, I do have a box of amyl nitrate pearls in the 'fridge. I don't have sodium nitrite, and sodium thiosulfate but I can buy it OTC if I want to. All Americans who work with cyanides can buy these three items, along with the various needles and stuff required) without a doctors prescription. (Inhaling crushed amyl nitrite pearls is a temporizing measure before intravenous administration of sodium nitrite. Sodium nitrite induces methemoglobin in red blood cells, which combines with cyanide, thus releasing cytochrome oxidase enzyme. Thiosulfate, in its turn, has a higher affinity to cyanide than methemoglobin and produces thiocyanate, which is renally excreted.) Just curious. Im all for making up my own rules but also make the appropriate safety measures. I believe I'm better educated than most American jewelers regarding the safe handling of most of the chemicals jewelers encounter, only because I've taken the trouble to research them. The gvmt dept charged with implementing all these health and safety regulations have 4 officers covering an area some 100 miles by 50 miles. They spend most of their time sitting in their local offices doing paperwork. Yes, one cannot reply upon government to protect. We 'Merkin's used to know this. And without devolving into a philosophical/political debate, we were once a fiercely independent people, but we've become a nation of sniveling, dependent, sheep. they havnt a hope in hell in adequately policing all and every business in that area let alone anyone working on their own in a shed somewhere. Do you work in a shed? I work in a jewelry store. We even have flush toilets. So the chances of being caught are practically nill. Policing? Caught? Oh wait, you're in the UK. Never mind. I see. Y'all exist at the whim of your government. Your rights are granted by them. Ya see, over here (we once knew that) our rights come from our Creator, and our government (is supposed to) exist[s] at our whim. To give you ane example of the stupidity of the regulations. I could write whole books on the stupidity of ALL government regulations... I suspect our beloved moderator would prefer we don't get into a huge discussion on the merits (or lack thereof) of gov't regulations, but I do so hope he allows you and the other Brits who will surly take umbrage with my POV a change to respond. you can transport say 50 new car batteries filled with h2so4 quite legally. as there not classified as waste. BUT you cannot transport 50 identical batteries that are now dead, ie sulfated up to your recycling center., where you get a dollar each for the lead content. the recycling center have a 38 ton artic that has these batteries tipped into the steel body, and then driven some 270 miles to the recycling plant. Thats done at night when the vehicle checking stations are closed. En route all the acid thats running out of the upside down batteries drips all the way !!. Is there any check? no theres not. Gee...big surprise. Force does work. Only freedom works. The freedom to err is the ultimate human right, and these gov't thugs' attempts prevent mistakes by limiting freedom do the human race a grave disservice. So much for health and safety. Ted also in the UK. |
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