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I want to make a diamond ring
I've been collecting diamonds, and other gems. The goal is to build
myself a diamond ring. It will contain over a hundred diamonds, convering the ring - with no metal showing, only the gems - mostly 1, 2, 3 pts in size, with a centrepiece of various gems. The largest will only be a 1/2 carat. I believe I'll have to carve a mold, and then find out how to cast it, followed by placing the gems on it without any clasps - as they would disrupt the wavelike flow of the vision I have for this. The form will be a flower, concave and convex dips. This is the context, and I'm hoping that someone will be able to lend me some guidance of where to start. I also have several unfaceted stones that could be used, and would welcome suggestions of where I might have them faceted. L |
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Peter W. Rowe wrote:
Hall Peter, some more Information to that process: On Mon, 31 May 2004 19:33:25 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry (Lush) wrote: It will contain over a hundred diamonds, convering the ring - with no metal showing, only the gems - You'll need to start by refining just what you mean by 'no metal showing". You've got to hold the stones into the ring with something, and normally that means at least a little bit of metal over the girdle (edges) of each stone, preferably in at least three spots, though some setting styles do it with only two such spots. Now, this need not be a lot of metal. One popular and very pretty method of setting is called pave' setting, which when well done, looks like the surface is indeed paved with stones. Close examination, however, shows that the small spaces between stones (if you group lots of round stones as close together as you can, there will still be small , usually triangular, spaces between then at various intervals around the stone. are formed into small beads, or hemispherical masses of metal that extend slightly over the girdles. These beads serve to clamp the stones down into their seats. They are actually sitting in very closely fitted holes, with their girdles basically flush with the surface of the metal, except for those beads holding them down in the surface. The stones usually don't extend absolutely to the outside edge of a shape, and the last little edge is left as metal, usually trimmed to a bright cut line, accenting the shape of the metal form, rather than each stone. Stones can also be set just flush into a surface, rather than with beads, but then there needs to be a continuous rim of metal, even if very small, around the whole stone, so in effect, a web of metal seperates all the stones from each other. that 'web is metal that's slightly wider at it's outer surface, due to having been burnished down after the stones were placed in their holes, and this then forms the structure that holds the stones into the metal. A descrption is here. http://www.butschal.de/werkstatt/seminar/kapitel7.htm You may have seen so-called invisible setting, and may be trying for this look. the name imples no metal holding the stones, but this is not actually the case. it's done by cutting horizontal grooves into the pavilions of the stones just below the girdle, and then the metal that holds the stones into the ring is burnished into those grooves, instead of over the girdle. The trouble with this type of setting are several.. First of all, it's quite difficult to do, and many jewelers won't attempt it at all. Second, invisibly set rings are notorious for being fragile in terms of things like sizing or otherwise altering the ring, or repairing it later. Once invisibly set stones are set, that's it. It becomes very difficult, if not impossible, to tighten a stone that's worked loose, or to size a ring, or otherwise repair any damage. the stones themselves prevent access to the metal that's holding them, so if it becomes damaged, there's little way to get to it to fix it. And finally, you cannot just do this to any stones you happen to have. Generally, well made invisible set jewelry is precisely made first, and then all the stones are very carefully selected to be exact fits for the mounting, and then need to be specifically grooved to match the mounting. Manufacturers doing this generally just have very large parcels of pre-grooved stones from which to carefully select the precise sizes they need for a given piece. You will find that there probably will not be any jewelers or setters willing to try and get your own stones grooved. That's already a highly specialized diamond cutting task, not normally done to a customers existing diamonds, and even if it were, it's unlikely that they would be similar enough in size and shape to work well in such a setting style. Keep in mind that most invisible set jewelry needs the stones to match. My customer Swarowski is cutting Zirkonia especially for invisible setting in casting process. If he tells his dimanond cutter, what he want to do, He will recut his stones normally without problems. Varied sizes or graduated sizes are almost impossible to work with in a secure manner. So with all that said and done, i'd suggest in strongest terms, that you think in terms of a minimum of metal showing, rather than no metal showing. You gotta have something there to hold them. Peter Thanks for Your honest advices here. The next question will be: I want to fly to the moon who might give me any simple advice? :-) Best wishes, Heinrich Butschal -- www.juwelen.online-boerse.org www.meister-atelier.de www.schmuckfabrik.de www.medico.butschal.de |
#4
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Although the precision of the wording of the vision for the diamond
ring may not have been exact, your explanation and generosity have given me fuel for thought. The impression will be 'paved' as you kindly suggested, and wonder now if the various sizes of the tiny gems will cause concern. The setting I will likely now leave in the hands of the jeweller. Given time, I can carve a nice shape, and ask if you have suggestions of what I might use to shape the mold from which the jeweller can cast the base for the ring. Not quite as daunting as one with no flight training wanting to go to the moon, it has nonetheless been done, because someone wanted it to; I won't suggest that the advice I ask is simple. ;| L Heinrich Butschal wrote in message . .. Peter W. Rowe wrote: Hall Peter, some more Information to that process: On Mon, 31 May 2004 19:33:25 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry (Lush) wrote: It will contain over a hundred diamonds, convering the ring - with no metal showing, only the gems - You'll need to start by refining just what you mean by 'no metal showing". You've got to hold the stones into the ring with something, and normally that means at least a little bit of metal over the girdle (edges) of each stone, preferably in at least three spots, though some setting styles do it with only two such spots. Now, this need not be a lot of metal. One popular and very pretty method of setting is called pave' setting, which when well done, looks like the surface is indeed paved with stones. Close examination, however, shows that the small spaces between stones (if you group lots of round stones as close together as you can, there will still be small , usually triangular, spaces between then at various intervals around the stone. are formed into small beads, or hemispherical masses of metal that extend slightly over the girdles. These beads serve to clamp the stones down into their seats. They are actually sitting in very closely fitted holes, with their girdles basically flush with the surface of the metal, except for those beads holding them down in the surface. The stones usually don't extend absolutely to the outside edge of a shape, and the last little edge is left as metal, usually trimmed to a bright cut line, accenting the shape of the metal form, rather than each stone. Stones can also be set just flush into a surface, rather than with beads, but then there needs to be a continuous rim of metal, even if very small, around the whole stone, so in effect, a web of metal seperates all the stones from each other. that 'web is metal that's slightly wider at it's outer surface, due to having been burnished down after the stones were placed in their holes, and this then forms the structure that holds the stones into the metal. A descrption is here. http://www.butschal.de/werkstatt/seminar/kapitel7.htm You may have seen so-called invisible setting, and may be trying for this look. the name imples no metal holding the stones, but this is not actually the case. it's done by cutting horizontal grooves into the pavilions of the stones just below the girdle, and then the metal that holds the stones into the ring is burnished into those grooves, instead of over the girdle. The trouble with this type of setting are several.. First of all, it's quite difficult to do, and many jewelers won't attempt it at all. Second, invisibly set rings are notorious for being fragile in terms of things like sizing or otherwise altering the ring, or repairing it later. Once invisibly set stones are set, that's it. It becomes very difficult, if not impossible, to tighten a stone that's worked loose, or to size a ring, or otherwise repair any damage. the stones themselves prevent access to the metal that's holding them, so if it becomes damaged, there's little way to get to it to fix it. And finally, you cannot just do this to any stones you happen to have. Generally, well made invisible set jewelry is precisely made first, and then all the stones are very carefully selected to be exact fits for the mounting, and then need to be specifically grooved to match the mounting. Manufacturers doing this generally just have very large parcels of pre-grooved stones from which to carefully select the precise sizes they need for a given piece. You will find that there probably will not be any jewelers or setters willing to try and get your own stones grooved. That's already a highly specialized diamond cutting task, not normally done to a customers existing diamonds, and even if it were, it's unlikely that they would be similar enough in size and shape to work well in such a setting style. Keep in mind that most invisible set jewelry needs the stones to match. My customer Swarowski is cutting Zirkonia especially for invisible setting in casting process. If he tells his dimanond cutter, what he want to do, He will recut his stones normally without problems. Varied sizes or graduated sizes are almost impossible to work with in a secure manner. So with all that said and done, i'd suggest in strongest terms, that you think in terms of a minimum of metal showing, rather than no metal showing. You gotta have something there to hold them. Peter Thanks for Your honest advices here. The next question will be: I want to fly to the moon who might give me any simple advice? :-) Best wishes, Heinrich Butschal |
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#6
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As resources are slim in my sparsely populated area, your stellar
advice has me going in the right direction. (Very unfortunately, classes would take me about 12 hours from here.) I'll 'google' the wax and carving tools as I continue to collect the diamonds and other gems over the course of the year. It's nice to know that the mold can be formed without heavy consideration of where the gems might be placed. Here is what I hope you can answer briefly if you have a minute, as you have already given this project so much of your time: I've been keeping my eye open for carved or molded surfaces from which I either might duplicate its pattern - by replicating it with a carving, or by taking a mold of it. (Ceramics, glass, etc.) Here's the question - With the softer waxes you described, is it possible to carefully place the wax directly on the surface of the desired form (perhaps with the help of a very thin layer of lubricant or petroleum jelly -- and a bit of heat), then carefully work it into the harder wax that forms the circular part of the ring itself? Or is the wax typically too course? Very best, L |
#7
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On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 19:01:10 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry
(Lush) wrote: As resources are slim in my sparsely populated area, your stellar advice has me going in the right direction. (Very unfortunately, classes would take me about 12 hours from here.) I'll 'google' the wax and carving tools as I continue to collect the diamonds and other gems over the course of the year. Some sources: Gesswein (www.gesswein.com), Contenti (www.contenti.com), Rio Grand (www.riogrande.com) The first two have tools and supplies online. Rio has a very extensive selection, but you'll have to request catalogs. personally, I think they're worth the small charge they ask, as their catalogs are lavishly produced, informative, and rather larger than you'll expect. It's nice to know that the mold can be formed without heavy consideration of where the gems might be placed. Do at least make sure the model will roughly accomodate the stones. Do that by simply seeing if you can place the stones upside down on the wax surface, just sitting in positon on the top, not overlapping each other, without much space between, and without hanging over the edge of the wax (they should leave a small border, actually) You can stick them to the wax with a soft sticky wax (red utility wax is the name of one that works well) if your model is hard carving wax, or often just a bit of saliva will hold them in place well enough to see if they'll be likely to work out. Here is what I hope you can answer briefly if you have a minute, as you have already given this project so much of your time: I've been keeping my eye open for carved or molded surfaces from which I either might duplicate its pattern - by replicating it with a carving, or by taking a mold of it. (Ceramics, glass, etc.) Here's the question - With the softer waxes you described, is it possible to carefully place the wax directly on the surface of the desired form (perhaps with the help of a very thin layer of lubricant or petroleum jelly -- and a bit of heat), then carefully work it into the harder wax that forms the circular part of the ring itself? Or is the wax typically too course? yes, you can comine waxes. You can simply melt literally any of the waxes, including the hard carving waxes, onto surfaces that can take modest heat, or with soft waxes, can press them down onto a surface and lift it off for an impression. Petrolium jelly makes a fine seperating agent for this, as do silicone sprays, or even a layer of saran wrap plastic wrap (for pressed on wax. Not melted on.) Keep in mind that this gives you a reverse impression of the surface, not a duplicate. To get a duplicate, you can make a plaster of paris impression, coat THAT with vasoline, and take a wax impression of the plaster. or for more complex shapes with undercuts, one can make actual formal molds from almost anything using any of a number of rubber or silicone rubber, or urathane (and a host of others) rubber modling products. The sources I listed will show several types. For you, the various RTV (room temperature vulcanizing) types are more practical than vulcanizing rubbers, which need more equipment to make a mold. soft waxes can be combined with harder waxes, but it can be tricky sometimes, as they don't always adhere so well to each other without welding them with a hot needle or something, and even that can take a little practice. In some cases you can super glue two pieces of wax together. it won't be a strong joint, but it doesn't need to be for the casting process. The model only needs to have the right shape, whether that be a single piece of wax, or a glued and stuck together assembly of several. In the process, the entire wax model is simply melted away, and all that remains is a mold cavity with the shape of the wax model. At that point, the cast metal doesn't care whether the model was one piece of wax or several. Keep in mind, that what does reproduce well are all the flaws and defects, scratches, marks, and the like, that are in the wax. The better shaped your model, the better your casting will be in the end, requiring less sanding and filing to clean it up. Rougher wax surfaces can make that process more difficult, and will waste more metal, but that does not have to stop you, so long as you plan for it, leaving enough wax so that after casting, the roughness can be sanded and filed away. Roughness that consists of bumps and projections in the wax are easily cleaned up in the casting. it's dips, divits, holes, dings, file marks, and the like that cause more trouble, since to remove than, one either needs to go to the work of soldering in or welding in a patch, or one (and this is what's usually done) has to sand down the entire surface until one has gotten to the bottom of the defect. That results in greater loss of metal. Hope that's of use Peter Very best, L |
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#9
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"Peter W. Rowe" Rio Grand (www.riogrande.com) The first two have tools and supplies online. Rio has a very extensive selection, but you'll have to request catalogs. personally, I think they're worth the small charge they ask............. $20 is hardly a "small charge" for a catalog. This is particularly annoying because they have no catalog on-line. All you can buy is their catalogs. The good news is that if you call and use a little imagination, they will send them to you for nothing. If you are not in the business, invent one. Anyone who would pay $20 for a catalog would probably buy the Brooklyn Bridge. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/weekly.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com |
#10
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Imagination? It takes no imagination to have Rio Grande send you a
catalog. All you have to do is buy something from them. The $20 is to keep moochers in their place. They send $20 in certificates with the catalog you "buy" so that legitimate customers still get the catalog free. You ARE smart enough to read the fine print aren't you? -- Don Thompson ~~~~~~~~ "Jack Schmidling" wrote in message ... "Peter W. Rowe" Rio Grand (www.riogrande.com) The first two have tools and supplies online. Rio has a very extensive selection, but you'll have to request catalogs. personally, I think they're worth the small charge they ask............. $20 is hardly a "small charge" for a catalog. This is particularly annoying because they have no catalog on-line. All you can buy is their catalogs. The good news is that if you call and use a little imagination, they will send them to you for nothing. If you are not in the business, invent one. Anyone who would pay $20 for a catalog would probably buy the Brooklyn Bridge. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/weekly.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com |
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