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straight cut on saw



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 25th 04, 07:22 PM
Jafi
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Default straight cut on saw

Hello All,
I have recently rebuilt a 12" rock saw and I'm having trouble calibrating it
for a parallel cut. It seems that as the clamp travels it tends to move away
from the blade which causes the blade to bind.
I have measured and remeasured and still can't get it aligned. I have
realigned the blade shaft, I have realigned the clamp rails and I am getting
somewhat frustrated. It is the larger rocks that seem to have trouble
staying aligned. I don't put any rock larger than the clamp, (lengthwise)
and only about 3 - 4" high.
Is there a trick or can someone impart some of their experience and wisdom
on this newbie? Your help would be appreciated.
Thank you
Joe

Ads
  #2  
Old September 25th 04, 07:36 PM
Peter W.. Rowe,
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On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 11:22:07 -0700, in "Jafi" wrote:

Hello All,
I have recently rebuilt a 12" rock saw and I'm having trouble calibrating it
for a parallel cut. It seems that as the clamp travels it tends to move away
from the blade which causes the blade to bind.
I have measured and remeasured and still can't get it aligned. I have
realigned the blade shaft, I have realigned the clamp rails and I am getting
somewhat frustrated. It is the larger rocks that seem to have trouble
staying aligned. I don't put any rock larger than the clamp, (lengthwise)
and only about 3 - 4" high.
Is there a trick or can someone impart some of their experience and wisdom
on this newbie? Your help would be appreciated.
Thank you
Joe



Joe,

The classic way I was shown to do this is to clamp a pencil into the vise, adjust
it so it just barely kisses the side of the blade (with the blade rotating, and
then, also does the same when the vise is run down to the far side of the blade.
It can take a good deal of tweaking. The thing this accounts for is that blades
are rarely totally flat and true, so you're looking for the same extent of
marking on both sides, rather than a complete mark all around the blad. Get it
set so it scribes about the same length of arc on boths sides.

The other comment is to be sure the blade is mounted to the shaft as true as
possible. If there is any wobble in the edge as it turns, then there is the risk
that the blade will start into the rock slightly off it's true centerline, which
pulls the blade to the side as the cut progresses. that not only messes up the
cut, but can destroy the blade, by dishing it. So make sure the blade flanges
are really true, and the blade, truely flat, mounts equally true to the shaft.

which brings me to two other points. if you've trying to true up the saw with a
used blade, be sure the blade is not dished already, perhaps from attempting to
cut with a misaligned blade. A dished blade is good only for short trim cuts
unless you can get it flattened again (sometimes possible with careful
planishing...) As well, make sure the blade edge is uniformly sharp from one
side of the edge to the other. run the blade through a bit of fire brick or
dressing stone to be sure it's not glazed on one edge, which again, can happen
when the blade is not cutting true and is being pulled to one side. when that
happens, the blade tends to not want to cut in a straight line, but cuts faster
to one side, so even with a true blade and true vise, the cut can drift to the
side. Very early in my career (the start actually), I worked for a time for a
lapidary shop. the owner was in the habit of slabbing most stones by imbedding
them in concrete first. He'd started this with smaller hard to hold things,
putting them, carefully oriented,a nd perhaps held in position with a bit of
glue, into a milk carton, so he'd get lots of smaller rocks into the one carton.
then he'd fill it up with concrete. the resulting square block was easy to clamp
into the 24 inch slab saw, but equally, he'd found that the concrete was very
good for the keeping the blade properly dressed and sharp, so he sometimes did
the same thing with single larger rocks that he felt might tend to glaze the
blade, or where the shape of the rock offered a very angled surface that the
blade would have to start the cut into, with the concrete avoiding the
possibility of the angled surface deflecting the blade a little when the cut
started. It also reduces the chance of the slab breaking off just before the cut
completes, which often leaves a jagged end to the cut.

Hope that's of use.

Peter
  #3  
Old September 26th 04, 07:14 AM
Jack Schmidling
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Unfortunately I responded to this in great detail via google but it got
barfed and I am not in the mood to retype it but....


Peter said:

Reading.


Reviewed the sections in the Complete Metalsmith but as usual, more
questions than answers.

Email me off list for more detailed suggestions. then you'll need to

buy, or make, at least a couple steel tools. And then, when you're ready to
start hammering, you're gonna get some exercise... It's actually rather
enjoyable, almost hypnotic, after you get the idea of how the metal is
handled.
But email me.

I am looking forward to the experience but it seems that email defeats the
purpose of the ng. My guess is that most of the readers don't know any more
than I do but are too intimidated by the trolls to ask questions.

As a starting point, I melted some silver and poured it into a shallow sand
mold thinking that I could pound it into sheet metal but gave up in disgust.
I really wanted to used my silver stash as that was what got me interested
in this in the first place.

Sort of like living in a hardwood forest got me interested in woodworking.

Maybe someone out there would like to barter some silver for sheet metal?

Really irritates me to have to pay $15 an ounce for silver sheet metal. Yeh
I know, I'm rich what do I care. Guess pinching pennies is how I got rich.

js


--
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com







  #4  
Old September 26th 04, 08:50 AM
NE333RO
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Reviewed the sections in the Complete Metalsmith but as usual, more
questions than answers.


The reason that you have more questions than answers is that you don't have
the background needed. The reason you don't have the background needed is that
you want things taught to you in the manor you want it taught. Not in the
sequence it should actually be taught in.

I am looking forward to the experience but it seems that email defeats the
purpose of the ng.


Well usually, just not in your case. The problem is, you want to know what
you want to know. Even without benefit of the knowledge needed to fully
appreciate what you are being told. People trying to learn about the subject
matter, from reading what is written to you, will generally not get enough
information for it to be usefull.

My guess is that most of the readers don't know any more
than I do


I can't argue with that. The problem is that they will not learn much from
things written to you. You want advanced information without benefit of the
preceding groundwork. People without LOTS of experimental time will not be able
to use most of the info posted for you.

but are too intimidated by the trolls to ask questions.

Doubtful.

As a starting point, I melted some silver and poured it into a shallow sand
mold thinking that I could pound it into sheet metal but gave up in disgust.


Imagine that. Do you know why?
  #5  
Old September 26th 04, 09:13 AM
Peter W.. Rowe,
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On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 06:14:46 GMT, in rec.crafts.jewelry Jack Schmidling
wrote:

As a starting point, I melted some silver and poured it into a shallow sand
mold thinking that I could pound it into sheet metal but gave up in disgust.


You can do that. But it's a LOT of work. Before the invention of rolling mills,
this is how it was done.

You'll need a really sturdy (heavy) surface on which to hammer, like a
blacksmithgs anvil or similr flat piece of steel, preferably something weighing
at least 50 pounds or so, and better still, triple that. Too light an anvil will
cause the surface on which youre hammering to absorb too much of the energy in
vibration and movement, so less is transmitted to the metal.

Then you'll want a good sturdy forging hammer. something between two and four
pounds, likely. the heavier the better, within limits of what you can
comfortably hold and use for a while. The style is often something like what
sold as an engineers hammer, which has one face shaped as a standard sledge
hammer face, and the other cut to a horizontal (perpendicular to the handle)
wedge. You'd need to slightly rework the wedge, giving it a slight crown in the
long direction and softer corners, so it acts a little bit more strongly in the
center of that wedge shape, and if you hit with the corner by mistake, not such a
nasty sharp ding is caused.

You do most of the forging with that cross pein wedge side, striking blows next
to each other across the metal, which lengthens it in a directly perpendicular to
the wedge shape. Periodically, you switch sides to the flat side (which should
also have softened edges, andperhaps be slightly crowned), and hammer out the
ridges left by the other side of the hammer. Then repeat this process going at
90 degrees to the previous course, so now the metal elongates in the other
direction. eventually, you get sheet metal.

the major trouble is not so much thinning the metal, as that happens Ok, but
getting it to a really uniform thickness, and doing it without the edges of the
metal cracking too much. Anneal the metal fairly frequently, and don't attempt
to move it too far with each course.

If you find the metal bouncing too much as you forge it, that's an indication
that your anvil isn't heavy enough, or isn't mounted securely. the anvil surface
should be mounted low enough so your hammering hand is not held high up. With
the hammer face on the anvil surface, you want your forearm level or a bit angled
down, and your upper arm vertical and relaxed from the shoulder. Many
workbenches are too high a surface to do this sort of thing comfortably. An old
wood stump is a common thing to mount an anvil or other forging surface upon. If
you don't have an anvil, a section of railroad rail can be made into a halfway
decent one thouogh it's a bit light for heavy forging, or some chunk of steel of
smilar or greater weight.

If you get good at this, you not only will do great benefit to your
cardiovascular system (this is a good workout), but will gain much respect for
ancient metalsmiths who had to make all their sheet metal this way. In the old
days, it was generally done by two people at a time, one to hold the metal (in
tongs) and direct the work, the other, a helper who actually wielded the sledge
hammer (which then, being a two handed affair, could be a lot heavier)

peter
  #7  
Old September 27th 04, 12:16 AM
Jack Schmidling
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"NE333RO"

The reason that you have more questions than answers is that you don't

have
the background needed.....


Just what is it about this hobby that demands that a beginner obtain a
masters degree from some never heard of school or work as a slave/apprentice
for 10 years before he is allowed to ask a question?

Why is it that people keep telling me that no one will ever buy one of my
trinkets because they are garbage when in fact the reason they won't buy
them is because at my most modest rate of $100 an hour, vertually everything
I have made would have to be price at no less the $10,000.

Well usually, just not in your case. The problem is, you want to know what
you want to know.


What a most amazing attitude I have! Just imagine if one had to know what
everyone else wanted one to know.

You want advanced information without benefit of the
preceding groundwork.


Seems to me that I am in a pretty good position to decide what I need to
know.

but are too intimidated by the trolls to ask questions.

Doubtful.


Let's do a survey on that one. Come on lurkers, now's your chance to speak
out!

As a starting point, I melted some silver and poured it into a shallow

sand
mold thinking that I could pound it into sheet metal but gave up in

disgust.

Imagine that. Do you know why?


Of course I do... NOW. But I did not until I made the attempt.

Can you imagine what I would have learned posting the question instead of
doing it?

Unless Peter responded, I would have been called a jackass and told what
school to go to.

Instead of that, I went to his web site and pondered his wierdo stuff he
calls jewelry. After all the lectures on traditional stuff and masters and
apprentices, etc. ad nausiam, I go to his web site and his cover photo is a
piece that looks like a kids toy. After pondering for awhile and knowing
what art has degenerated to, I finally recognize this thing as a ring. It's
a horseshoe shape thing with a red bead in a tube. Maybe a carpenters level
but traditional... my foot.

The next thing I find is what looks like something out of an optical shaft
encoder.... a round disk with a bunch of little beads in a circle. Totally
lost me on this but not to be lost is his braggadocio about how his stuff is
on permanent display at the Smithsonian. I don't doubt it a bit but that is
why I no longer have any respect for the word art. It has about as much
meaning as the word beer these days. Bud is the King of beers because they
say so and the mushbrained masses believe it and buy it.

The only art fair I ever entered got us the the Best of Show ribbon and a
cash prize but we did not sell a single piece. That is when I gave up on
art... about 20 years ago. The mushbrained masses want garbage not art and
people like him know this and give them the garbage they want.

js


--
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com








  #8  
Old September 27th 04, 03:01 AM
Jack Schmidling
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"Peter W.. Rowe,"

If you get good at this, you not only will do great benefit to your
cardiovascular system (this is a good workout), but will gain much respect

for
ancient metalsmiths who had to make all their sheet metal this way....



You have motivated me to get that piece out of the scrap and keep at it. I
have the hammer you described and a good appreciation for the too high work
bench my anvil is mounted on but a real need for the exercise.

As a point of interest, why is this thread attached to a different one now?

js


--
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com



  #9  
Old September 27th 04, 09:18 AM
Abrasha
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Jack Schmidling wrote:


Instead of that, I went to his web site and pondered his wierdo stuff he
calls jewelry. After all the lectures on traditional stuff and masters and
apprentices, etc. ad nausiam, I go to his web site and his cover photo is a
piece that looks like a kids toy. After pondering for awhile and knowing
what art has degenerated to, I finally recognize this thing as a ring. It's
a horseshoe shape thing with a red bead in a tube. Maybe a carpenters level
but traditional... my foot.


Salvador Dali, a great admirer and student of the work of Vermeer once said:
"If you want to paint like yourself, learn to paint first like the great
masters." Even today, one can see many students of painting in museums all over
the world copying the masters. They copy Rembrandt, Vermeer, Goya, Velasquez,
etc. That's how you learn how to paint. I mean to say, that's how you learn
the CRAFT of painting.

Besides, it is not I who call my work ART. I do not call myself an artist.
That is more or less a title that has been bestowed on me. I call myself a
goldsmith. Maybe a very opinionated goldsmith, but a goldsmith nevertheless.
So why do I have an "Artist Statement" on my web site? Because that is expected
of me.

You do not need to like my work, I frankly don't give a damn if you do or
don't. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and obviously you have a more
pedestrian beer and sausage taste. The craft of my work however, is impeccable
and can withstand any and all criticism of anyone, especially you.

This is not about aesthetics, but rather about craft, skill. Mastery has
nothing to do with art, but has everything to do with craft and skill.



... Bud is the King of beers because they
say so and the mushbrained masses believe it and buy it.



Well, lookee here. I finally find myself agreeing with you on something. A
fart in a bucket of water has more flavor than a Budweiser. Besides, it isn't
even beer, it's made from rice for God's sakes!

My favorite is our local Anchor Steam Beer. I can see the brewery from my
living room, down the hill here on Potrero Hill in San Francisco. (I can post a
picture if anyone is interested). I chatted with Fritz Maytag the other day on
my way to work, when he was bottling some wine, which he also makes.


The only art fair I ever entered got us the the Best of Show ribbon and a
cash prize but we did not sell a single piece.


I received "Best of Show" twice at the ACC Craft Show in San Francisco. The
second time it came with a fat check too.

That is when I gave up on
art... about 20 years ago. The mushbrained masses want garbage not art and
people like him know this and give them the garbage they want.



You should read "A Confession" on my web site. You might enjoy it. You get to
it by clicking on "A Confession" at the bottom of my Artist Statement on my Home
Page.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com
  #10  
Old September 27th 04, 09:18 AM
Abrasha
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"Peter W.. Rowe," wrote:

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 06:14:46 GMT, in rec.crafts.jewelry Jack Schmidling
wrote:

As a starting point, I melted some silver and poured it into a shallow sand
mold thinking that I could pound it into sheet metal but gave up in disgust.


You can do that. But it's a LOT of work. Before the invention of rolling mills,
this is how it was done.


Very nice examples of this can be seen in "Encyclopedie ou dictionnaire raisonne
des sciences, des arts, et des metiers", published under the direction of
Diderot and d'Alembert, 1750-1772

This was the first encyclopedia ever published. When I lived in Germany in the
70's I traveled to France regularly, since I lived only about 2 hours East of
Strasbourg. I would visit the antique book sellers there. I bought several of
the pages of those books relating to gold and silver smithing. I no longer know
where I have them. Unfortunately, I could never find a complete copy of that
work. When I asked the book sellers why that was so, I was told, that they were
much more valuable page by page. Whenever they would find a complete set, they
would rip it apart, and sell it page by page. Now you can only find the
originals in museums and luckily today they are also available on CD ROM.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com
 




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