Local quilt show: observations

Very good points, Doc. I think the word you are looking for there is
'technique.'
Yes, there are quilt makers who have wonderful imagination for color and
such, but who have less than stellar workmanship. They may have problems
with quilting stitch too. But they like their quilts because they exhibit
lots of personality and style! (And so do I!!) OTOH, some people have
excellent technique, with sharp points, precise seams and so on, but don't
have much pizzazz when it comes to color, or style. They stick to just one
or two blocks in a quilt, and just a few fabrics and depend on the
workmanship to carry the quilt. They too like their quilts, because they are
predidictable. Each side of the question would be surprised to learn that
other quilt makers do not like their work. It doesn't matter any how. To
each her own .... to each his own.
PAT in Virginia


"Dr. Zachary Smith" wrote in message
...
I'm very familiar with the eternal battle between traditionalists &
purists and innovators & radicals. That said,

1. I had no idea something like this would be such a big deal, but
then I hadn't really thought about it because I hadn't been aware of
it.

2. I now have something else to look for/at/critique at the local show
coming up.

3. I think I now better understand the concept of "quilt police".

My own observation (probably a "duh" to most folks here...) is that
there are two aspects to quilting; an artistic aspect and a (oh, crap
I can't find the right word...) the skill and accuracy of physically
crafting the quilt. IOW, one might have an imaginative and
artistically brilliant design with regard to shapes and colors, yet
the quilter can't seam to sew a straight line, get corners to meet, or
quilt it without skips, loops, and other catastrophes. OTOH, one
might be a master sewer, quilt with perfection, but have no sense of
color or proportion. (Am I making sense?) This is just one other
reason I can think of that one might have someone else do the machine
quilting. Should it bar that particular artist/crafter from entering
a piece in a show? I don't know, but it falls under #2 above. I
don't think there is a cut & dry answer. YMMV.

Doc

Yeah, 'gitterdun' ..... a keeper for the RCTQ dictionary! PAT

"Polly Esther" wrote in message
...
I like Nann's word 'gitterdun'. I think I'll keep it. Polly

Thank you, Pat.
Gen


"Pat in Virginia" wrote in message
...
Just because a quilt is on display does not mean we should be standing
there critiquing it. Well, maybe in Ohio a quilt show means the quilters
are looking for opinions from the people who attend. In my guild, here in
Virginia, the quilts are hung for the enjoyment of the viewers! There is
a "Viewer's Choice" ballot, so the viewers do get a chance to 'judge'
discreetly. That doesn't mean they should be publicly criticizing the
quilts while at the show, although they probably discuss the work with a
few friends, when away from the show. We do not hire judges to rate the
quilts. Even if we did, that does not mean it is open season on voicing
opinions in the venue, which your note seems to imply.

PAT in Virginia


"John" wrote in message . .
Don't get me wrong. I am not one of the quilt police. If people want
to make things like I have described, then good on them. I hope they
get pleasure out of what they do. If people want to make and enter
things like I described in quilt shows, then good on them. But, and
this is the real defining factor. When they show me those quilts in a
setting that implies that they are looking for opinions. IE; judging
of quilts in the shows, then I will render my opinion as it pertains
to my own choices of excellence. If they hang those quilts in their
houses, and I happen to be asked by them what I think. I will, gently
explain my personal preferences, and why they might differ from
theirs, but I will celebrate, their efforts, and hopefully, show them
a way that might improve their next quilt, technique. That is the
nature of criticism. It is sometimes difficult for the recipient to
accept that criticism, but if you can't stand the heat, stay out of
the quilt judging at the quilt show. I am sometimes judged by hand
quilters as not being a "real quilter" because I machine quilt. In
return, I state that I am not a "real Quilter". I am a, "real machine
quilter". I don't think there is a hierarchy in quilting, only bad
technique, machine and hand. Even that applies only to things that
are of a showpiece nature. If you are making a dog bed quilt, I don't
think it matters to the dog, if it gets four paws or one paw in the
dog bed judging contest. What matters is that it is warm and comfy. If
it is entered in a quilt show, then you better be prepared for
suggestions or criticisms.

John

Again, I agree with you. When I go to a show, it doesn't take me long to
scan the "perfectly" matched squares ones, (the ones with one block repeated
over and over) even if there are sashings, etc. To me those are the most
boring quilts in the world, no matter what the actual quilting design is. I
enjoy the ones with some pizzazz
Gen

"Pat in Virginia" wrote in message
...
Very good points, Doc. I think the word you are lookin.g for there is
'technique.'
Yes, there are quilt makers who have wonderful imagination for color and
such, but who have less than stellar workmanship. They may have problems
with quilting stitch too. But they like their quilts because they exhibit
lots of personality and style! (And so do I!!) OTOH, some people have
excellent technique, with sharp points, precise seams and so on, but don't
have much pizzazz when it comes to color, or style. They stick to just one
or two blocks in a quilt, and just a few fabrics and depend on the
workmanship to carry the quilt. They too like their quilts, because they
are predidictable. Each side of the question would be surprised to learn
that other quilt makers do not like their work. It doesn't matter any how.
To each her own .... to each his own.
PAT in Virginia


"Dr. Zachary Smith" wrote in message
...
I'm very familiar with the eternal battle between traditionalists &
purists and innovators & radicals. That said,

1. I had no idea something like this would be such a big deal, but
then I hadn't really thought about it because I hadn't been aware of
it.

2. I now have something else to look for/at/critique at the local show
coming up.

3. I think I now better understand the concept of "quilt police".

My own observation (probably a "duh" to most folks here...) is that
there are two aspects to quilting; an artistic aspect and a (oh, crap
I can't find the right word...) the skill and accuracy of physically
crafting the quilt. IOW, one might have an imaginative and
artistically brilliant design with regard to shapes and colors, yet
the quilter can't seam to sew a straight line, get corners to meet, or
quilt it without skips, loops, and other catastrophes. OTOH, one
might be a master sewer, quilt with perfection, but have no sense of
color or proportion. (Am I making sense?) This is just one other
reason I can think of that one might have someone else do the machine
quilting. Should it bar that particular artist/crafter from entering
a piece in a show? I don't know, but it falls under #2 above. I
don't think there is a cut & dry answer. YMMV.

Doc

Different shows have different rules about who does the piecing and who does
the quilting. It's up to the show. Some prefer those to be in a group
quilt category. Some are accepting them in the other categories as long are
there are no more than two people. Things are evolving. And we are getting
to see many more beautiful quilts at shows.
--
Kathyl (KJ)
remove "nospam" before mchsi
http://community.webshots.com/user/kathylquiltz
"Mary" wrote in message
...
I tend to do everything by hand and generally dislike machine
quilting. Perhaps it's a sort of "style", but I really think there
are far too many people who will take a very nice quilt top and
literally ruin it with that sort of machine quilting you describe, and
that is rather sad. Some machine quilting is beautifully done, but
that seems to be the exception these days.

Stupid question, though -- if Person A makes a quilt top and then has
it machine quilted by Person B, how can Person A put that quilt into a
show or a competition? Does the quilt go in as by Person A and Person
B? And is there a difference if the machine quilting is done by a
professional or some sort of commercial enterprise?

In article ,
"Pat in Virginia" wrote:

Just because a quilt is on display does not mean we should be standing there
critiquing it. Well, maybe in Ohio a quilt show means the quilters are
looking for opinions from the people who attend. In my guild, here in
Virginia, the quilts are hung for the enjoyment of the viewers! There is a
"Viewer's Choice" ballot, so the viewers do get a chance to 'judge'
discreetly. That doesn't mean they should be publicly criticizing the quilts
while at the show, although they probably discuss the work with a few
friends, when away from the show. We do not hire judges to rate the quilts.
Even if we did, that does not mean it is open season on voicing opinions in
the venue, which your note seems to imply.

PAT in Virginia


Well said, Pat.

--
Sandy in Henderson, near Las Vegas
sw.foster1 (at) gmail (dot) com (remove/change the obvious)
http://www.sandymike.net

Nann wrote:
There's a recent book about machine quilting that describes three
styles for each of the sample quilts: dragger, show-stopper,
heirloom. Or something like that. (I don't have the book and I don't
recall the title.) The point is that the complexity of the quilting
can differ for the intended use of the quilt. A baby, little-kid, or
even a college student's quilt may be a dragger. That Baltimore Album
or Dear Jane that took three years to piece will be an heirloom.

It's called Machine Quilting Solutions by Christine Marachini, if you do
your own free motion quilting, I would definitely say it's one to have
on your shelf, I love that she has so many different designs that don't
require marking or maybe just a tiny bit of marking to get the spacing
right along a border.

Cheers
Anne

On Aug 16, 4:22*pm, "Pat in Virginia" wrote:
Just because a quilt is on display does not mean we should be standing there
critiquing it. Well, maybe in Ohio a quilt show means the quilters are
looking for opinions from the people who attend. In my guild, here in
Virginia, the quilts are hung for the enjoyment of the viewers! *There is a
"Viewer's Choice" ballot, so the viewers do get a chance to 'judge'
discreetly. That doesn't mean they should be publicly criticizing the quilts
while at the show, although they probably discuss the work with a few
friends, when away from the show. We do not hire judges to rate the quilts.
Even if we did, that does not mean it is open season on voicing opinions in
the venue, which your note seems to imply.

PAT in Virginia
Nobody is standing around and criticizing the quilts, at least that I
have heard. The quilts in question are divided up into categories,
Traditional, Art, hand quilted, machine quilted, ect. The different
categories, are voted on. Therein lies the judgement, that is being
rendered. I am shure some of them are in it to show what they are
doing and not for any prize ribbon or award. But I hope that you an
agree that there are "good quilts" of whatever stripe, and those that
are not so good because of poor choices of color, assembly or other
widely accepted criteria of excellence. I understand that somebody
just starting out will not produce a quilt that they might produce a
number of years down the road. They in their enthusiasm, might have
placed the quilt into the display area, to show what they are up to.
My criticism of their efforts, in no way should be construed as
something that should tell them to stop doing what they are doing. But
more like what you might read within the confines of a book on the
subject of quilting excellence. I have noted in many publication,s of
quilting technique, articles referring to common mistakes that you
should watch for when getting started out in quilting. I learned all
that I know about quilting from books, as I am completely self taught.
All of those books, have made reference to the need to respect the
integrity of the quilt pattern design when stitching the tops, and I
think that is a reasonable attitude to take when doing free motion
topstitching. The quilting patterns can be simple or complex, as the
person desires, or is capable of producing, but the end result is
often considered to be better, than one in which the careless
disregard for seams of the patchwork when applying the overall random
placement of stitching using free motion techniques. If, for whatever
other reason, the person knowingly uses that technique, to some
imagined, "Artistic" Ideal, then that is fine. It is not something I
would consider spending much time either doing or even looking at
during my pass down the isles of the quilt show. If on the other hand,
some might judge the simple but careful placement of stitching on a
simple traditional pattern as boring, then that is fine also, but at
least they can not judge it as sloppy craftsmanship. That is the
difference that I was trying to point out. If that is overly critical,
then so be it. If you enjoy what you are doing, as I said in the
original post, then good on you. But don't think that I will champion
your efforts, if they don't at least try to follow some basic elements
good design. That being a somewhat subjective, but not unknown ideal.

John

On Aug 15, 2:58*pm, John wrote:
On Aug 15, 1:25*pm, John wrote:





Let me start off with a disclaimer. If any of you are offended by my
observations, then I am sorry. If you derive pleasure from the things
I am commenting on, then go ahead and continue to enjoy them. My
opinions are my own, and "might" coincide with others, or maybe not.
That stated, herein follows a brief recounting of todays visit to the
local yearly quilt show.
*Lois and I showed up at the local show and started viewing the
offerings from large bed sized quilts to small wall hangings and items
of apparel. The one thing that struck me, and Lois, was the fact that
the degree of overall quilting by machine was of a singular nature.
This observation applied to about 75% of the quilts. The other 25%
were hand quilted, and this observation does not apply to them. They
were very nicely done.
As to the 75%; I have never seen as large a group of quilts, in my
life, that were done in such a random manner that defied the sewn
seams of the pattern, of the quilt. It is as if the person doing the
quilting, and some of them were "professionally" machine quilted, and
they used that word "professionally", loosely, in my opinion, *was
insensitive to the fact that they were crossing over the seams of the
pattern of the quilt on autopilot in an effort to confuse attempted
artistic random loops and squiggles, in the guise of art, and not
respecting the pattern seams as defining elements of the quilt. Now if
this is the new norm and I am completely out of step with State of the
Art Free motion quilting, then so be it, I am out of step. If you look
at the other 25% of the quilts that were hand stitched. they used
overall quilting in the appropriate seam bordered elements of the
pattern and stayed within the confines of the seams and produced a
quilt that respected the pattern design and complimented that with
area quilting which enhanced the overall appearance. Out of probably
35 Machine quilts, I think there were probably 2 or 3 that met the the
above criteria of respecting the seams, and not going over them
randomey, in an attempt to achieve, I don't know what. It is almost as
if people take a class on free motion quilting and then throw away all
the time honored traditions of using quilting and stippling within
area elements that respect the seam lines of the sewn pattern, and
throw themselves into the process of random placement of the needle on
autopilot. Thank you very much,but I think I will get on the other
bus, on this show.
So there you have it. My personal take on the recent, and not so happy
viewing of the state of the art of Machine quilting, as it pertains to
Knox County, Ohio. And once again, I hope that I have not stepped on
any toes here. Or otherwise raised any hackles.

John

I can understand the limitations of money into the overall equation.
But, I do all of the quilting on all of my quilts myself; with a
machine, and proudly so.
1. If I didn't do it, all myself, I wouldn't call it, "My Quilt".
2. If I paid to have it quilted, I wouldn't enter it into a show.
3. I don't like the look of all over quilting on small pieced tops.
4. Number three does not apply to art quilts which are different than
small pieced quilts, and have a different type of piecing pattern than
traditional small pieced pattern quilts, and therefor might be a
candidate for overall machine quilting. I don't make Art Quilts, so I
have no personal experience with that element of the medium. I neither
like or dislike them. They are a different kettle of fish, for me.
Neither better nor worse. Just different. If I ever did do an Art
Quilt, I would certainly consider an all over quilting pattern, if I
thought it would not detract from the design.
*Maybe I am a traditionalist in this regard, but one of the quilts
that I really appreciated *was machine pieced, and hand quilted. The
hand quilting was stitched in the ditch. Now there was somebody that
took hand stitching to another level. She buried the stitches in the
fold of the seam and they were not even seen in some instances. That
takes commitment when it could have been done by machine with no foul.
Except it wouldn't have been hand quilted. Kudo's to her. I wish I
could do the hand stitching, but these old stubby hammer pounded
fingers just won't cooperate. My own personal cross to bear, I guess.

John- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Stitching-in-the-ditch is difficult to do by hand, I think. It's just
tough
to push the needle in & out, for me anyway, and still maintain
some degree of consistently small stitches. OTOH, at the same time,
creatively it's the easy way out. No marking, no creative process to
come up with a design that will complement the pattern. Depending
on the pattern, sometimes I think it looks okay. Other patterns, it's
just kind of blah. Some patterns just scream for feathers and wreaths
and cables and loops and .....
I don't see anything wrong with entering a quilt you paid to have
machine
quilted at all. But then I only enter quilt shows for fun and I get a
kick out
of the compliments I get from the people who saw my first horrible
attempts just 4 short years ago. That's the buzz I get from quilt
shows.

Sherry

On Aug 16, 11:52*pm, Sherry wrote:
On Aug 15, 2:58*pm, John wrote:



On Aug 15, 1:25*pm, John wrote:

Let me start off with a disclaimer. If any of you are offended by my
observations, then I am sorry. If you derive pleasure from the things
I am commenting on, then go ahead and continue to enjoy them. My
opinions are my own, and "might" coincide with others, or maybe not.
That stated, herein follows a brief recounting of todays visit to the
local yearly quilt show.
*Lois and I showed up at the local show and started viewing the
offerings from large bed sized quilts to small wall hangings and items
of apparel. The one thing that struck me, and Lois, was the fact that
the degree of overall quilting by machine was of a singular nature.
This observation applied to about 75% of the quilts. The other 25%
were hand quilted, and this observation does not apply to them. They
were very nicely done.
As to the 75%; I have never seen as large a group of quilts, in my
life, that were done in such a random manner that defied the sewn
seams of the pattern, of the quilt. It is as if the person doing the
quilting, and some of them were "professionally" machine quilted, and
they used that word "professionally", loosely, in my opinion, *was
insensitive to the fact that they were crossing over the seams of the
pattern of the quilt on autopilot in an effort to confuse attempted
artistic random loops and squiggles, in the guise of art, and not
respecting the pattern seams as defining elements of the quilt. Now if
this is the new norm and I am completely out of step with State of the
Art Free motion quilting, then so be it, I am out of step. If you look
at the other 25% of the quilts that were hand stitched. they used
overall quilting in the appropriate seam bordered elements of the
pattern and stayed within the confines of the seams and produced a
quilt that respected the pattern design and complimented that with
area quilting which enhanced the overall appearance. Out of probably
35 Machine quilts, I think there were probably 2 or 3 that met the the
above criteria of respecting the seams, and not going over them
randomey, in an attempt to achieve, I don't know what. It is almost as
if people take a class on free motion quilting and then throw away all
the time honored traditions of using quilting and stippling within
area elements that respect the seam lines of the sewn pattern, and
throw themselves into the process of random placement of the needle on
autopilot. Thank you very much,but I think I will get on the other
bus, on this show.
So there you have it. My personal take on the recent, and not so happy
viewing of the state of the art of Machine quilting, as it pertains to
Knox County, Ohio. And once again, I hope that I have not stepped on
any toes here. Or otherwise raised any hackles.

John

I can understand the limitations of money into the overall equation.
But, I do all of the quilting on all of my quilts myself; with a
machine, and proudly so.
1. If I didn't do it, all myself, I wouldn't call it, "My Quilt".
2. If I paid to have it quilted, I wouldn't enter it into a show.
3. I don't like the look of all over quilting on small pieced tops.
4. Number three does not apply to art quilts which are different than
small pieced quilts, and have a different type of piecing pattern than
traditional small pieced pattern quilts, and therefor might be a
candidate for overall machine quilting. I don't make Art Quilts, so I
have no personal experience with that element of the medium. I neither
like or dislike them. They are a different kettle of fish, for me.
Neither better nor worse. Just different. If I ever did do an Art
Quilt, I would certainly consider an all over quilting pattern, if I
thought it would not detract from the design.
*Maybe I am a traditionalist in this regard, but one of the quilts
that I really appreciated *was machine pieced, and hand quilted. The
hand quilting was stitched in the ditch. Now there was somebody that
took hand stitching to another level. She buried the stitches in the
fold of the seam and they were not even seen in some instances. That
takes commitment when it could have been done by machine with no foul.
Except it wouldn't have been hand quilted. Kudo's to her. I wish I
could do the hand stitching, but these old stubby hammer pounded
fingers just won't cooperate. My own personal cross to bear, I guess.

John- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Stitching-in-the-ditch is difficult to do by hand, I think. It's just
tough
to push the needle in & out, for me anyway, and still maintain
some degree of consistently small stitches. OTOH, at the same time,
creatively it's the easy way out. No marking, no creative process to
come up with a design that will complement the pattern. Depending
on the pattern, sometimes I think it looks okay. Other patterns, it's
just kind of blah. Some patterns just scream for feathers and wreaths
and cables and loops and .....
I don't see anything wrong with entering a quilt you paid to have
machine
quilted at all. But then I only enter quilt shows for fun and I get a
kick out
of the compliments I get from the people who saw my first horrible
attempts just 4 short years ago. That's the buzz I get from quilt
shows.

Sherry

I agree that some designs call out for feathers, intertwined rope
links, fans, or rosettes. Those sorts of things are long standing
ideal elements of quilt design that are found in the best of quilts.
But, and this is the thing, they are mostly found within the confines
of borders, in large open areas, and other places without any pattern
piecing, underneath them. You wouldn't do a feather pattern on top of
a log cabin square of piecing. You might do it in another area of the
quilt that contains the log cabin pattern, and place the feather, ect,
in the open spaces of the design. If you look at hand quilting as an
example, you never see, or should I say I have never seen, overall
design of random squiggles, done by hand, on top of a pieced pattern
where you would run across the stitching seams of the pieced square,
with that rosette, or fan, or whatever. . That, and only that, is what
this whole dust up is trying to clarify. And once again, anybody who
loves doing that sort of thing, then you have my permission, as if it
was needed, to continue enjoying your chosen style choice. Just don't
expect me to get excited about it, as if that really mattered either.

John