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#1
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UK specific: What is a hallmark?
mbstevens wrote:
Jason L wrote: http://www.thegoldsmiths.co.uk/assay...thallmarks.htm Yes. This has always amazed me. "The Act is built around the principle of description, where it is an offence for any person to apply to an unhallmarked article a description indicating that it is wholly or partly made of gold, silver or platinum." If an object if *in fact* made made of a substance, it should be basic freedom of speech to describe it as such. I can understand legislating against fraud, but not against fact. And, most of those hallmarks are ugly, old fashioned designs that I wouldn't want cluttering up my work. "Breaches of the Act carry stiff sentences (up to 10 years' imprisonment.)" ...and that is just excessive as hell. I don't know the history of this law -- is it the Guilds that have such a choke-hold on the legislature? Regrettably there have always been and still are folks that describe the articles there offering for sale as being made of precious metal when "IN FACT" there not. these folks are only interested in cheating people So the guilds decided to intervene and insist that they would test and mark every item offered for sale within the rules of weight etc, as being genuinely up to the standards defined.. Would you like to be cheated? Im sure not. Its a safeguard that has worked for centuries in favour of the customer as well as the maker. As an after thought, With freedom comes responsibility, cheats abuse the freedom they enjoy by not accepting the responsibility that goes with the freedom.. Ted Frater. |
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#2
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Ted Frater wrote:
mbstevens wrote: Jason L wrote: http://www.thegoldsmiths.co.uk/assay...thallmarks.htm Yes. This has always amazed me. "The Act is built around the principle of description, where it is an offense for any person to apply to an unhallmarked article a description indicating that it is wholly or partly made of gold, silver or platinum." If an object if *in fact* made made of a substance, it should be basic freedom of speech to describe it as such. I can understand legislating against fraud, but not against fact. And, most of those hallmarks are ugly, old fashioned designs that I wouldn't want cluttering up my work. "Breaches of the Act carry stiff sentences (up to 10 years' imprisonment.)" ...and that is just excessive as hell. I don't know the history of this law -- is it the Guilds that have such a choke-hold on the legislature? Regrettably there have always been and still are folks that describe the articles there offering for sale as being made of precious metal when "IN FACT" there not. Then punish fraud as fraud -- don't make it illegal to say a thing contains a metal if it does contain that metal. these folks are only interested in cheating people So the guilds decided to intervene and insist that they would test and mark every item offered for sale within the rules of weight etc, as being genuinely up to the standards defined.. Would you like to be cheated? I am sure not. And you think restricting basic rights to free speech is a lesser wrong? *TEN YEARS* in the pokey for saying your artwork has precious metal in it when it DOES in fact have it? A little ugly stamp is going to stop fraud? Doubtful. It more likely just reinforces the powers of Guild members. Its a safeguard that has worked for centuries in favour of the customer as well as the maker. Other countries seem to get along fine without it. As an after thought, With freedom comes responsibility, Individuals take responsibility. This laws takes responsibility away from individuals. cheats abuse the freedom they enjoy by not accepting the responsibility that goes with the freedom.. Ted Frater. So, punish for fraud. Do not force jewelers to put those *butt-ugly* little stamps on articles that are intended to be *beautiful.* These kinds of laws are on the books not really to protect individuals but to protect organizations. It happens everywhere. The cattle barons here in Texas have pushed through a law protecting locally grown *beef* from slander. It's all just to be ridiculed. |
#3
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"mbstevens" wrote in message news And you think restricting basic rights to free speech is a lesser wrong? *TEN YEARS* in the pokey for saying your artwork has precious metal in it when it DOES in fact have it? So don't say it. Say 'I'm an artist, the medium may or may not be precious in its own right, but I'm above hallmarks. See what happens... See how much you sell as well... A little ugly stamp is going to stop fraud? Doubtful. It more likely just reinforces the powers of Guild members. What guild, anyone can buy a hallmark. Other countries seem to get along fine without it. Nope, not these days, I think the USA is just about the only major country without a marking system. Of course some countries (Italy springs to mind) have problems, but they all mark... cheats abuse the freedom they enjoy by not accepting the responsibility that goes with the freedom.. Ted Frater. So, punish for fraud. Do not force jewelers to put those *butt-ugly* little stamps on articles that are intended to be *beautiful.* Jewellers don't. You send it away to be stamped. These kinds of laws are on the books not really to protect individuals but to protect organizations. It happens everywhere. The cattle barons here in Texas have pushed through a law protecting locally grown *beef* from slander. It's all just to be ridiculed. Ah... You're from Texas... Sorry... -- William Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe Barbeques on fire by chalets past the headland I've watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off Newborough All this will pass like ice-cream on the beach Time for tea |
#4
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Hi,
I'm only a jewellery buyer but afaik a hallmark is the multiple marks made by a uk assay office. If you want to provide an honest description just say they are "stamped 375" which you believe means they are 9K gold. Do make sure you're know they're gold. I bought a "9k" necklace from ebay recently which only had markings on the lobster clasp. These clasps can be picked up for a few pounds from the www. There were no other markings on the chain itself. The clasp was newer than the chain and the chain plating was badly worn so that you could see pitted brass coloured metal beneath. No way was it solid. I sent it back. Other chains I own usually have markings on the first chain/jump ring to indicate their karat content. |
#5
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And, most of those hallmarks are ugly, old fashioned
designs that I wouldn't want cluttering up my work. no, we have a beautiful system ) |
#6
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No. The worshipful society of goldsmiths may be intimately involved with it all, but if I recall my history (feel free to correct me, you brits) , it was the Royalty itself, somewhere around the 12th century The origin dates back to 1300 under Edward 1 when he used the Leopard's head as a mark. Chris |
#7
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But, the vast majority of the public don't buy the exclusive jewellery items
you talk about. If you buy something of mixed metals like mokume then you'd be unlikely to melt it down with a quantity of scrap gold. A hallmark at least shows the whole item shows a certain purity and they're usually placed on non visible surfaces. Expensive, exclusive items are likely to pass onwards into history. They're often accompanied by other paperwork to prove their ancestry. Maybe there's different rules for jewellery made from multiple metals, perhaps hallmarks aren't allowed for these pieces as they're not pure enough. extract from http://www.thegoldsmiths.co.uk/assay...ghallmaked.htm ARTICLES OF TWO OR MORE PRECIOUS METALS The hallmark applied is that of the least precious metal, which must be more than 50% of the weight of the article. Whenever possible, the fineness mark of the more precious metal is added. a.. Platinum is more precious than gold, and silver is the least precious. Platinum articles with less than 50% by weight of yellow 750 gold are hallmarked as platinum. b.. 750 white gold snaps, ear-ring fastening pins are permitted on platinum articles. c.. Platinum and 750 white gold articles are hallmarked as 750 gold. ARTICLES MADE OF PRECIOUS METALS AND OTHER MATERIALS Small, working base metal parts are permitted. Regulations on the use of base metals are made from time to time by the British Hallmarking Council. Authorised parts in base metal must either be clearly distinguishable in colour from the precious metal or struck with the word "METAL" . Base metals such as stainless steel are not considered to be distinguishable from silver, white gold or platinum. |
#8
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"Chris Hackett" wrote in message ... No. The worshipful society of goldsmiths may be intimately involved with it all, but if I recall my history (feel free to correct me, you brits) , it was the Royalty itself, somewhere around the 12th century The origin dates back to 1300 under Edward 1 when he used the Leopard's head as a mark. But these didn't actually differentiate between metals. For example some fifteenth century silver gilt vessels owned by York Minster (made in William Snawsel's workshops) were thought for many years to be gold. It wasn't until displacement tests were done about ten years ago that they realised they were actually silver gilt. For anyone's who's interested William Snawsel's house in York has been rebuilt and is called 'Barley Hall'. Snawsel was Alderman of the York Goldsmith's guild, and both mayor and MP for the city at various times. However no workshops yet, they borrowed my medieval set of tools (and me) when they did a working display. -- William Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe Barbeques on fire by chalets past the headland I've watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off Newborough All this will pass like ice-cream on the beach Time for tea |
#9
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"CheshireCat" wrote in message ... Do make sure you're know they're gold. I bought a "9k" necklace from ebay recently which only had markings on the lobster clasp. These clasps can be picked up for a few pounds from the www. There were no other markings on the chain itself. I had a silver charm bracelet in the shop last week. Someone had bought it on ebay as 'silver'. The clasps were, as you say, marked. When I heated it up to solder on a charm the damn thing started leaking soft solder all over the place, and afterwards it wouldn't clean up in the pickle or take a polish. A seriously ****ed off customer... -- William Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe Barbeques on fire by chalets past the headland I've watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off Newborough All this will pass like ice-cream on the beach Time for tea |
#10
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CheshireCat wrote:
Maybe there's different rules for jewellery made from multiple metals, perhaps hallmarks aren't allowed for these pieces as they're not pure enough. That seems to be exactly right, if I am reading correctly. And it's the basis of my grumble. Suppose Mr. X makes a really beautiful mokume ring with lots of platinum and silver. Some of the swirls are pure gold. Unfortunately, the ring contains some bronze and copper streaks for contrasting color. So, let's say he can't get it hallmarked. Unfortunately for Mr. X, it is "an offence for any person to apply to an unhallmarked article a description indicating that it is wholly or partly made of gold, silver or platinum." This seems to me to be an injustice to Mr. X. He *should* be able to attach a truthful description to the ring. It would be bad enough to slap Mr. X's wrist if he refuses to comply, but he can also can get jailed for *TEN* years. That makes the injustice much worse. Mr. X has commited no fraud. He has simply engaged in a bit of healthy civil disobedience. |
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