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Surface Embroidery? (Lost in the Ether)



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 11th 04, 06:14 AM
Suzanne
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Default Surface Embroidery? (Lost in the Ether)

I tried posting this a few days ago, but I guess it got lost in the
ether because I never saw it show up. Here goes again.

Fearing I sound like a complete airhead, would someone please explain
to me what "surface embroidery" means? I've done embroidery before,
but I never ran across that term until coming to this group. Since I'm
feeling dumb already, please go easy on me, ok?
Suze

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  #2  
Old March 11th 04, 08:09 AM
LdyTegan
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would someone please explain
to me what "surface embroidery" means?


Dear heavens, I won't claim to be a wealth of knowledge here, but as *I*
understand it, surface embroidery is stuff like ribbon embroidery, or free hand
stuff done on jeans or clothing or even crewel (I think). And I could be very
wrong! Anything not considered counted would be surface embroidery, if *I*
understand correctly.And I'm sure if I'm wrong, and I won't be surprised, one
of the more knowledgeable among the readers here will elaborate and explain to
us both.

Tegan

Who we are never changes. Who we think we are... does.
- Unknown
  #4  
Old March 11th 04, 05:31 PM
Dianne Lewandowski
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In the U.S. - but not all other parts of the Western world - surface
embroidery means: silk shading, Brazilian, ribbon work, couching, and
those stitches most generally used without counting. HOWEVER: There IS
some overlap. For instance, Schwalm is a counted embroidery, as is
Ayshire, but it generally falls under the umbrella of "surface". Also,
a refined surface embroidery stitcher will count threads on very fine
grounds for things like stem or chain stitch.

In Italy, it is called "classic embroidery", and does - or does not -
include surface embroidery.

All that we do here with floss, lace thread, pearl cottons and the like
are embroidery. Counted embroidery *usually* (not always) means work on
a ground of 40-ct or less. Also, the ground is normally very closely
woven, whereas counted work is *usually* performed, in this day and age,
on a more open weave.

But it gets "sticky" because counted work can also be surface work -
such as darning patterns, where most of the thread is on the surface.

It's a slippery slope to try to understand it all. That's why, in so
many cases, rather than using the "general" term, we have specific
terms, such as: Colbert, Drawn thread, Hedebo, Reticella, ribbon,
Brazilian, Casalguidi, shadow, and on and on it goes. In modern times,
however, it's getting even more difficult. For instance, canvas
embroiderers are borrowing from earlier finer embroiders (such as filet
lace) and working the patterns on cavas.

It's gettin' harder and harder to describe. I really dislike the term
"surface embroidery" because it can lead one to think in terms that
aren't necessarily cut and dried. I don't know when the term began to
come into favor, because eons ago, it was just simply "embroidery" and
there wasn't such a deliniation between counted stitching and "other"
types of stitching.

Dianne

Suzanne wrote:

I tried posting this a few days ago, but I guess it got lost in the
ether because I never saw it show up. Here goes again.

Fearing I sound like a complete airhead, would someone please explain to
me what "surface embroidery" means? I've done embroidery before, but I
never ran across that term until coming to this group. Since I'm
feeling dumb already, please go easy on me, ok?
Suze


  #5  
Old March 11th 04, 06:23 PM
Lynne Demmery
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My guild made a definition of Surface work for classification is a member's show.

Surface work is:
Metal thread
Ribbon Embroidery
Schwalm
Crewel
Smocking
Brazilian
Shadowwork
White work
Cutwork
Broderie Englaise
Hedebo
Richelieu
Mountmellic
Ayreshire
Stumpwork
Freestyle
Reticella
Openwork

These 3 can also be classified as countedwork as well.
Drawnwork
cutwork
Hardanger

Lynne (in Ottawa)

By the Way, our guild show occurs on May 1 and 2 in Ottawa at Tapestry House,
if you would like any more information email ovgsathotmail.com





(LdyTegan) wrote in message ...
would someone please explain
to me what "surface embroidery" means?


Dear heavens, I won't claim to be a wealth of knowledge here, but as *I*
understand it, surface embroidery is stuff like ribbon embroidery, or free hand
stuff done on jeans or clothing or even crewel (I think). And I could be very
wrong! Anything not considered counted would be surface embroidery, if *I*
understand correctly.And I'm sure if I'm wrong, and I won't be surprised, one
of the more knowledgeable among the readers here will elaborate and explain to
us both.

Tegan

Who we are never changes. Who we think we are... does.
- Unknown

  #6  
Old March 11th 04, 08:25 PM
Dianne Lewandowski
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Tell them to add: Colcha, Casalguidi, Kolaska and a host of others big
grin.

Some of these embroideries contain both drawn work (pulled and also
withdrawn). Some of these contain counted work. For instance, shadow
work can be counted even on extremely fine, transparent materials
(bastiste, lawn). Punch (Rhodes) work can be counted or punched with a
sail needle, depending upon ground.

Canvas embroidery is now using designs where the canvas is split, so
that you don't have "gridded" designs", but rather a real curved edge.

I think it's really, really difficult to define this stuff. Freestyle,
to me, means doing whatever you want without an apparent design inked on
the cloth. That doesn't mean I'm right, just that is how I *think*
about it.

I find this whole topic fascinating. For instance, a recent topic
opened up when a stitcher couldn't find a diagram to explain "twisted
bars". The results of her search brought up two different examples. I
looked things up here out of curiosity, and found that in earlier times,
some of these were just shown how to execute without actually naming the
process.

I think it might be easier to just say the "what" rather than confining
certain things to a file drawer with a label. What I mean is: We can
say, "I love to do Schalm." Everyone rather knows what that is, or can
look up pictures readily. Or, say "I love to do cross stitch more than
anything". Both are embroidery, but the technique is different.

Canvas embroidery, from penelope to congress cloth, is definitely in a
league of its own.

I could be mistaken, but I *think* that the terminology "counted
stitching" is a very recent one. Therein might lie the problem, when it
became so popular, everything else was just, well, unthinkable. Hope
nobody gets their knickers in a knot. I may not be explaining that very
well.

Dianne



Lynne Demmery wrote:
My guild made a definition of Surface work for classification is a member's show.

Surface work is:
Metal thread
Ribbon Embroidery
Schwalm
Crewel
Smocking
Brazilian
Shadowwork
White work
Cutwork
Broderie Englaise
Hedebo
Richelieu
Mountmellic
Ayreshire
Stumpwork
Freestyle
Reticella
Openwork

These 3 can also be classified as countedwork as well.
Drawnwork
cutwork
Hardanger

Lynne (in Ottawa)

By the Way, our guild show occurs on May 1 and 2 in Ottawa at Tapestry House,
if you would like any more information email ovgsathotmail.com





(LdyTegan) wrote in message ...

would someone please explain
to me what "surface embroidery" means?


Dear heavens, I won't claim to be a wealth of knowledge here, but as *I*
understand it, surface embroidery is stuff like ribbon embroidery, or free hand
stuff done on jeans or clothing or even crewel (I think). And I could be very
wrong! Anything not considered counted would be surface embroidery, if *I*
understand correctly.And I'm sure if I'm wrong, and I won't be surprised, one
of the more knowledgeable among the readers here will elaborate and explain to
us both.

Tegan

Who we are never changes. Who we think we are... does.
- Unknown


  #7  
Old March 11th 04, 09:14 PM
Janet M. Davies
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This term can be used for many styles of embroidery. The main think
being that the bulk of the stitching sits on the surface of the
material.

Design a stitching good day,
Janet
http://www.jmddesigns.co.nz
http://www.masterstitch.co.uk
Get the JMD Newsletter:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jmdnewsletter/
  #8  
Old March 11th 04, 10:15 PM
Dianne Lewandowski
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Default

Hi, Janet. The bulk of the thread lies on the surface in cross stitch
as well. Particularly with the Danish method. :-) See how slippery
this gets?

Dianne

Janet M. Davies wrote:
This term can be used for many styles of embroidery. The main think
being that the bulk of the stitching sits on the surface of the
material.

Design a stitching good day,
Janet
http://www.jmddesigns.co.nz
http://www.masterstitch.co.uk
Get the JMD Newsletter:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jmdnewsletter/


  #9  
Old March 12th 04, 12:22 AM
LdyTegan
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Default

The bulk of the thread lies on the surface in cross stitch
as well. Particularly with the Danish method. :-) See how slippery
this gets?


And now you see why I said I was sure more knowledgeable people would give
better answers than I !!! LOL.. Goodness.. I can never even remember which way
I do my cross stitch! Is it Danish or English??? LOL... or both depending where
I'm heading at the moment?! I can't even be counted on to remember which style
is Danish and which is English... sad but true.. LOL
Tegan

Who we are never changes. Who we think we are... does.
- Unknown
  #10  
Old March 12th 04, 01:05 AM
Dianne Lewandowski
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I wish I didn't have this "stuffy" way of writing. I talk the same way,
but it's easier to understand because I'm so animated when I talk, and
my voice rises and falls like notes in a musical staff, and my face
shows more expression than an actor's. So people understand better.
And I'm always open to another's view. I'm a "challenger" by nature.

Anyway - couching aside (was that Romanian or gold?) -

What I note (in U.S.) is a divisive line drawn between those who quilt,
those who do cross stitch, or Brazilian, or ribbon, or canvas, or
so-called "heirloom", etc. A sort of, "I'm in this club and you can't
join unless you abide by the rules: you can only do and like THIS type
of stitchery."

I'm not accusing cross stitchers of anything. I've seen this with
quilters, smockers, heirloom stitchers, knitters, etc. etc.

So, before I get off track and can't remember what point I'm trying to make:

It also *seems* that, in order to denigrate those who like something
other than cross stitch or samplers (which use other types of stitches),
the word "embroidery" has gotten lost and a new term has emerged:
surface stitchery. Don't ask me why, but I detest the word "stitchery."

Now stop and think what that phrase sounds like. Puffy stuff. Fluffy
clouds. "Oooooh, you do surface stitchery. *I* do samplers." (or
canvas, or smocking or knitting . . . you get the picture).

To go even further under the hood (just my personal observations from
seeing the shift in terms through time), cross stitchers were introduced
to aida and it became, "Ooooooh, you do stamped cross stitch?"

Then linen became more prominent and it became, "Ooooooh, you cross
stitch on aida? I do *counted stitch* on linen (or lugana or put in
your favorite even weave)." So, now the big term is "counted work".
See, even *these* stitchers can't say, "counted embroidery".

ANY of these techniques can be from the very easy to the sublimely
difficult. No matter the ground. And ALL of us started with something
easy, with the exception of a few people who always start on something
difficult even if they mess it up. It's how they learn and like to learn.

Not too long ago, someone said something to the effect that cross stitch
wasn't embroidery. That's how far this dividing notion has become.

It's ALL embroidery. What I (personally) wish we would do is just say,
when someone asks you what is your hobby, you answer "embroidery". If
they're interested, you can go into detail and tell exactly what kind of
embroidery you do. Or, refer to the particular one you're holding in
your hand at the moment. Because, if you're doing a band sampler,
chances are you're not just cross stitching, you're also adding stitches
that used to be used exclusively on canvas, or drawn thread, or drawn
fabric.

Much of embroidery is mixed technique anyway. It's not one thing or
another. And we change these types with time. As an example, Hardanger
emb. was once done a "certain" way, and only white on white. But
through time, new techniques were added, borrowed from other parts of
the world, and colors were added. The same thing has happened to
Schwalm and Casalguidi.

I just saw a new design release, called whitework, and it was full of
color in the center. Well, the minute you introduce color, you can't
call it "whitework". It's simply embroidery. And why we don't want to
use that term is beyond me.

I love how the Italians solve this dilemma: It's either cross stitch or
classic embroidery. Makes perfect sense to me.

Brain just died.
Dianne





LdyTegan wrote:
The bulk of the thread lies on the surface in cross stitch
as well. Particularly with the Danish method. :-) See how slippery
this gets?



And now you see why I said I was sure more knowledgeable people would give
better answers than I !!! LOL.. Goodness.. I can never even remember which way
I do my cross stitch! Is it Danish or English??? LOL... or both depending where
I'm heading at the moment?! I can't even be counted on to remember which style
is Danish and which is English... sad but true.. LOL
Tegan

Who we are never changes. Who we think we are... does.
- Unknown


 




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