OT : Completlely OT Wedding & best friends question

On Jan 16, 8:38*pm, "Ellice K." wrote:
On 1/16/12 1:35 PM, in article , "Ellice

K." wrote:

A bunch of stuff.

In the poor netiquette thing, I was discussing with DH this interesting
response, discussion. *And he pointed out to me that he hoped I wasn't
sounding like I was arguing with people. *Not as if that could ever
happen....

So, I just want to be sure that you all know that my responses aren't meant
to argue, but that I've found it pretty interesting to see how we have
different expectations, experiences. *That's all. *And to be sure that all
of you know that I do appreciate your input.

DH gets the thrill of seeing me in person - so he's aware of my frequent
quick talking, and the fact that since I can spin him up in person, knows I
could do it unintentionally electronically - without all those intonation
cues & facial expressions. *So, please - I do hope that Bobbie, Mary, Sue -
you didn't get some bad karma from my responses. *And I apologize if you
did.

Thanks,
Ellice

for me all these responds have their own reason...

Thanks

On 1/17/12 7:05 AM, in article ,
" wrote:

On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 20:38:12 -0500, "Ellice K."
wrote:

On 1/16/12 1:35 PM, in article , "Ellice
K." wrote:


A bunch of stuff.

In the poor netiquette thing, I was discussing with DH this interesting
response, discussion. And he pointed out to me that he hoped I wasn't
sounding like I was arguing with people. Not as if that could ever
happen....

So, I just want to be sure that you all know that my responses aren't meant
to argue, but that I've found it pretty interesting to see how we have
different expectations, experiences. That's all. And to be sure that all
of you know that I do appreciate your input.

DH gets the thrill of seeing me in person - so he's aware of my frequent
quick talking, and the fact that since I can spin him up in person, knows I
could do it unintentionally electronically - without all those intonation
cues & facial expressions. So, please - I do hope that Bobbie, Mary, Sue -
you didn't get some bad karma from my responses. And I apologize if you
did.

Thanks,
Ellice

I just watched the whole thing go by with morbid fascination ! Our
weddings seem so simple by comparison, far less who does what. Half
the things you mention like the intricacies of corsages and who
becomes a bridesmaid, whoooosh !

FWIW - I really don't like corsages, and they're not really done much here -
except for the wrist things. More typically, you'll see folks arranging for
some stems to be carried - not a bouquet - but something simple & elegant
for the mom's, etc. Just depends. Personally, I actually think these
things often become a stupid stressful morass instead of a joyous event - my
points are more that the people the couple love, and the couple stay feeling
that way and don't get hurt, overwhelmed over easily handled nonsense.

Personally - I'm pretty straightforward for my own functions. Doing the
event things for clients is a whole different ball of wax. I've been told
that the reason I'm good at it is I don't get emotionally crazy, and will
rep the client while working with the vendors. But, I've seen totally
bizarre things, people getting hysterical over which votives they could
have, a groom almost having the caterer cancel the deal 10 days prior - over
the price of tablecloth overlays (a troublemaking catering employee about to
be canned sent an e-mail saying these silk things would cost $10 instead of
$39, and he wanted that - I actually had worked it out with the caterer to
get them an entire extra bar & bartender for $0, plus the cloths for cost at
$21) which had bride in tears, me dragging groom outside to essentially
smack some sense into him, and after much ado & apologies he signed the dang
final contract. Uh huh. Then there was the bride who: spent 6 hours web
searching & re-ordering the little ribbon to tie the stupid little bags of
trinkets for the table because she thought the white on silver print she
already had didn't look good enough - however as this was 2 weeks prior to
the date, she still hadn't picked the music, and was the same one of "let's
change the flowers" fame. To top it off, at the rehearsal - with 7
attendants - she announced the missing one was fired, it took nearly 3 hours
because no one could actually pay attention, 3 of them made a burger king
stop on the way (although dinner was happening after the rehearsal), and the
bride then got hysterical deciding that she didn't like the music... So the
music director & I swapped music around, made her happy, and got thru it.
I, her dad, and the photographer, managed to convince her that they could
not leave the church, go to downtown DC for photos (not at the monument for
which they had a permit), have the photographer not in the limo, and then
get back....AFTER...the cocktail reception. Further, she wanted to go out
in Old Town Alexandria before the church for photos...that they'd just find
a good place. Uh huh. Yup. She actually showed up 45 min after the
ceremony should've started ....with all but 2 groomsmen also with them.
Yup. Only the best man and a couple of other usher wives were on time, the
groom got there about 15 min pre-ceremony. But, as there was only 1 usher
at the church, no one got seated until the bridal party arrived. Whereupon
I told them to get settled, fix hair, etc, while the bride started screaming
we can go right now. No....your mom needs to have her hair fixed, and
people actually need to be seated. Oh, why were the ushers with her? They
decided it would be better to not have to drive in case of drinking. Issue
- they were all staying in the hotel where the reception was to be, and
since they weren't going to be drinking in the church it was doubly idiotic.
Topping this - they had forgotten to pick up stuff for the church the day
before - candles for the stands, some other stuff - so my poor DH helped
out, ran around, and helped set-up, and when 2 usher wives showed up -they
nicely helped me. Go figure. I did get a huge, huge thank you and
apologies both at the reception & after. But, the kicker - the mom still
owes me $350. Actually, I should've known and not taken the client - or
done something - especially when my first task was to straighten out the
catering manager because "he won't answer our calls." When I met with the
guy, he was awesome - turned out that these people had their initial
meeting, another meeting, then the typical 30-60 min menu tasting turned
into nearly 5 hours, and they had also now changed the menu twice. Go
figure - but we got things set, worked thru the naïve stuff, and it was
indeed a gorgeous wedding. With no photos downtown or in Alexandria.

The tales of nonsense go on. Which is why when I was really doing a good
amount of events I tried not to do more than 2 weddings a year, though I
will do the "day of organizing" thing for a flat fee. That's a regular kind
of thing here - coming in and handling the actual day, which means
contacting all the vendors about 2 weeks prior, and then just handling
things on the day.


That said, I have a big mouth but I don't think I would say anything,
the die is cast and whatever you said, either way someone would be
unhappy with you. Best leave it alone.

Yup, you're too right. DH said he thinks the 2 older girls will likely say
something spontaneous to me, as they want to arrange shopping trips.

Ellice

On 1/16/2012 8:38 PM, Ellice K. wrote:
On 1/16/12 1:35 PM, in article , "Ellice
wrote:


A bunch of stuff.

In the poor netiquette thing, I was discussing with DH this interesting
response, discussion. And he pointed out to me that he hoped I wasn't
sounding like I was arguing with people. Not as if that could ever
happen....

So, I just want to be sure that you all know that my responses aren't meant
to argue, but that I've found it pretty interesting to see how we have
different expectations, experiences. That's all. And to be sure that all
of you know that I do appreciate your input.

DH gets the thrill of seeing me in person - so he's aware of my frequent
quick talking, and the fact that since I can spin him up in person, knows I
could do it unintentionally electronically - without all those intonation
cues& facial expressions. So, please - I do hope that Bobbie, Mary, Sue -
you didn't get some bad karma from my responses. And I apologize if you
did.

Thanks,
Ellice


As you said, an interesting discussion to hear other viewpoints. I'm
really not all that "social" an animal, and big parties terrify me. I
was *so* relieved when DD planned her own wedding reception - a lovely,
simple, semi-elegant affair - and all I had to do was bake the requested
challah (her new hubby did all the rest of the cooking!) and relax as a
guest.

I'd been invited to be an attendant in other family weddings over the
years, and was glad when my (hopefully gracious) refusal caused no ill
will. Just not my thing...so I just wanted to bring out that point of
view - that not everyone *wants* to be part of a big wedding! I can't
even stand to watch those ridiculous TV shows or hear "bridezilla"
stories such as you related. No patience for it or interest in it. (I
mean, really, what's a wedding about?) (And please don't say, "oh, about
$30,000!")

sue

--
Susan Hartman

I'm with you, Sue. My own wedding was in church, but no reception, and
only the essential people in church. Relatives were all a long way
away. No white dress or bridesmaids, no photographs etc. That was
nearly 53 years ago, and I've never regretted the lack of ceremony or
pictures. Or the marriage!

I organised one DD's wedding, much more traditional, but no limelight
for me. The other had a friend do it, because we lived in different
towns, and all her friends were there. I just made the dress and cake.

On 2012/01/18 04:54 AM, Susan Hartman wrote:


As you said, an interesting discussion to hear other viewpoints. I'm
really not all that "social" an animal, and big parties terrify me. I
was *so* relieved when DD planned her own wedding reception - a lovely,
simple, semi-elegant affair - and all I had to do was bake the requested
challah (her new hubby did all the rest of the cooking!) and relax as a
guest.

I'd been invited to be an attendant in other family weddings over the
years, and was glad when my (hopefully gracious) refusal caused no ill
will. Just not my thing...so I just wanted to bring out that point of
view - that not everyone *wants* to be part of a big wedding! I can't
even stand to watch those ridiculous TV shows or hear "bridezilla"
stories such as you related. No patience for it or interest in it. (I
mean, really, what's a wedding about?) (And please don't say, "oh, about
$30,000!")

sue

On 1/18/2012 6:13 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 21:54:04 -0500, Susan Hartman
wrote:


I'd been invited to be an attendant in other family weddings over the
years, and was glad when my (hopefully gracious) refusal caused no ill
will. Just not my thing...so I just wanted to bring out that point of
view - that not everyone *wants* to be part of a big wedding! I can't
even stand to watch those ridiculous TV shows or hear "bridezilla"
stories such as you related. No patience for it or interest in it. (I
mean, really, what's a wedding about?) (And please don't say, "oh, about
$30,000!")

sue

Spending that much on a wedding dismays me ! What a good start that
amount of cash could give a couple ! Worse yet, what if it falls in
the 50% failure rate - big money wasted lol

DM & DF spent all their $$ ($$ DGM saved for DF from his Army pay during
WWII) on furnishing their apartment. DM's parents had very little $$
so my parents were married in the minister's study with only the best
man and matron of honor in attendance. DM still has some of those
furnishings.

Nancy

On 1/17/12 9:54 PM, in article
, "Susan Hartman"
wrote:

On 1/16/2012 8:38 PM, Ellice K. wrote:
On 1/16/12 1:35 PM, in article , "Ellice
wrote:


A bunch of stuff.

In the poor netiquette thing, I was discussing with DH this interesting
response, discussion. And he pointed out to me that he hoped I wasn't
sounding like I was arguing with people. Not as if that could ever
happen....

So, I just want to be sure that you all know that my responses aren't meant
to argue, but that I've found it pretty interesting to see how we have
different expectations, experiences. That's all. And to be sure that all
of you know that I do appreciate your input.

DH gets the thrill of seeing me in person - so he's aware of my frequent
quick talking, and the fact that since I can spin him up in person, knows I
could do it unintentionally electronically - without all those intonation
cues& facial expressions. So, please - I do hope that Bobbie, Mary, Sue -
you didn't get some bad karma from my responses. And I apologize if you
did.

Thanks,
Ellice


As you said, an interesting discussion to hear other viewpoints. I'm
really not all that "social" an animal, and big parties terrify me. I
was *so* relieved when DD planned her own wedding reception - a lovely,
simple, semi-elegant affair - and all I had to do was bake the requested
challah (her new hubby did all the rest of the cooking!) and relax as a
guest.

When I was young I was very socially shy. However, I grew up in a family
with lots of big dos, and with having the grandfather who was involved with
show business & repping some sports people - that meant lots of parties &
people from all over around. For me, I'm much better having a job to do.
So, I started doing a lot of cooking and helping execute things when I was
about 11. In college, I did parties for frats & often bartended. Finding
that if I have something to do I'm much happier & also can be much
pleasanter to others - as opposed to being frozen. Your DD knew what she
was doing. Sounds delightful.

I'd been invited to be an attendant in other family weddings over the
years, and was glad when my (hopefully gracious) refusal caused no ill
will. Just not my thing...so I just wanted to bring out that point of
view - that not everyone *wants* to be part of a big wedding! I can't
even stand to watch those ridiculous TV shows or hear "bridezilla"
stories such as you related. No patience for it or interest in it. (I
mean, really, what's a wedding about?) (And please don't say, "oh, about
$30,000!")

sue
LOL - you have the best attitude. The horrid bride (lovely girl otherwise)
who had the "fired" attendant, actually had the same attendant then show up
at the wedding - in a dress about 2 sizes 2 small, with a laced back that
looked like a fire red explosion. It was something.

Personally, I think that shows like Bridezilla showcase the worst, people
who for whatever berserk reason think they're worthy of some worship, and
then lend to other brides thinking these bad behaviours and tacky things are
appropriate. Some of my event planning cohorts & I were laughing a couple
of years ago when some wedding planner & bridezilla on the show were talking
about the fee, and for that one it was like $1500 - and that poor planner
did everything. So, I & this big-time caterer (who has their own planners,
but I was doing this job for the bride/groom) were discussing that was no
Washington DC, or any big city, kind of price. As our client was jerking
around with the caterer & me - having seen said show.

Honestly, IME too often people get trapped into the stuff on websites, and
marketing and so lose track of what's important. So, when I do weddings, or
any big parties like Bar/Bat Mitzvahs - I try to bring some consciousness of
the truly important to the clients - and not to waste their time or $$
prioritizing stupid stuff that their guests won't remember, or need. Like
really, how many cheap plastic frames do you need? Or my fav - the bottle
opener with the Pope's head on it (for the Italian themed wedding) - which
thankfully they decided against.

Ellice

On 19/01/2012 12:18, Karen C in Calif wrote:
Amen! One couple had a zillion matchbooks printed up with their names
and the date. Since most people no longer smoke, most of those
matchbooks were left behind on the tables. I burn a lot of candles, so I
went around and picked up all the abandoned matchbooks, and some time
later the bride gave me a bunch more just to get them out of her house.
But someone had told her that matchbooks were de rigeuer, so she ordered
them.

Also bought so many napkins with their name and the date on them that
they still had some left on their first anniversary. She was starting to
see why my wedding cost so much less than hers -- the only thing that
had our names on it was the invitation.



For our wedding in 1975 the only expenses were the reception (£30) and
flowers (£10). Simple ceremony in the chapel
http://www.stjohnshayfield.org.uk (no fees as I'd been the organist
there) and reception at a local hotel http://www.theroyalhayfield.co.uk
My grandmother said she would pay for the photographer as her wedding
present to us. That was fine until the first proofs arrived - in black &
white. I mentioned this to gran who said "Do you know how much he wanted
to charge for colour!"
--
Bruce Fletcher
Stronsay, Orkney
(Remove dentures to reply)

On 1/15/12 8:44 PM, Gillian Murray wrote:
On 1/15/2012 4:37 PM, Susan Hartman wrote:
I agree with the others...let them figure it out. And if there are no
obvious hurt feelings, don't create them.

There are ways for groom's family to participate. I like the idea of
corsages for sisters of the groom to celebrate them as part of the
"host" families. As another job, as TM was brainstorming, they could be
asked to plan and/or administer the post-wedding departure - bubbles or
rose petals or whatever...hand them out to the wedding guests.

There are plenty of ways they can be involved other than as attendants.

sue




Pay for them to elope!!!!! LOL Wish we had done that with some of the
family weddings.

Gill

LOL

On 1/19/12 8:20 AM, in article ,
"Bruce" wrote:

On 19/01/2012 12:18, Karen C in Calif wrote:
Amen! One couple had a zillion matchbooks printed up with their names
and the date. Since most people no longer smoke, most of those
matchbooks were left behind on the tables. I burn a lot of candles, so I
went around and picked up all the abandoned matchbooks, and some time
later the bride gave me a bunch more just to get them out of her house.
But someone had told her that matchbooks were de rigeuer, so she ordered
them.

Also bought so many napkins with their name and the date on them that
they still had some left on their first anniversary. She was starting to
see why my wedding cost so much less than hers -- the only thing that
had our names on it was the invitation.



For our wedding in 1975 the only expenses were the reception (£30) and
flowers (£10). Simple ceremony in the chapel
http://www.stjohnshayfield.org.uk (no fees as I'd been the organist
there) and reception at a local hotel http://www.theroyalhayfield.co.uk
My grandmother said she would pay for the photographer as her wedding
present to us. That was fine until the first proofs arrived - in black &
white. I mentioned this to gran who said "Do you know how much he wanted
to charge for colour!"

No doubt it was just lovely, and what you wanted at the time. WRT the B&W
photos, you should know they've been very in vogue the last 10 years or so.
Most people do both color & B&W for the "mood" pics.

Funny story, though. My folks wanted DH1 & I to get married in Miami -as
there was a great place in their building, with patio overlooking the bay,
etc. We wanted to get married in Pittsburgh, where most of our friends were
at the time, and thought not many people would be travelling to come. My
parents were pretty tough - until they realized that a full seated dinner at
a restaurant in Pgh, a nice restaurant - was much less than catering in
anything in Miami. So, we got our choice. However, that said, evidently so
many people decided to come - as my extended family uncle said "when will I
ever get the chance to go to a Hindu wedding & a Jewish wedding, all in one
day?" So, the guests went from the expected 80 to about 125. But, it was
great fun.

Ellice

On Jan 17, 8:59*am, "Ellice K." wrote:
On 1/17/12 7:05 AM, in article ,









" wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 20:38:12 -0500, "Ellice K."
wrote:

On 1/16/12 1:35 PM, in article , "Ellice
K." wrote:

A bunch of stuff.

In the poor netiquette thing, I was discussing with DH this interesting
response, discussion. *And he pointed out to me that he hoped I wasn't
sounding like I was arguing with people. *Not as if that could ever
happen....

So, I just want to be sure that you all know that my responses aren't meant
to argue, but that I've found it pretty interesting to see how we have
different expectations, experiences. *That's all. *And to be sure that all
of you know that I do appreciate your input.

DH gets the thrill of seeing me in person - so he's aware of my frequent
quick talking, and the fact that since I can spin him up in person, knows I
could do it unintentionally electronically - without all those intonation
cues & facial expressions. *So, please - I do hope that Bobbie, Mary, Sue -
you didn't get some bad karma from my responses. *And I apologize if you
did.

Thanks,
Ellice

I just watched the whole thing go by with morbid fascination ! *Our
weddings seem so simple by comparison, far less who does what. *Half
the things you mention like the intricacies of corsages and who
becomes a bridesmaid, whoooosh !

FWIW - I really don't like corsages, and they're not really done much here -
except for the wrist things. *More typically, you'll see folks arranging for
some stems to be carried - not a bouquet - but something simple & elegant
for the mom's, etc. *Just depends. *Personally, I actually think these
things often become a stupid stressful morass instead of a joyous event - my
points are more that the people the couple love, and the couple stay feeling
that way and don't get hurt, overwhelmed over easily handled nonsense.

Personally - I'm pretty straightforward for my own functions. *Doing the
event things for clients is a whole different ball of wax. *I've been told
that the reason I'm good at it is I don't get emotionally crazy, and will
rep the client while working with the vendors. *But, I've seen totally
bizarre things, people getting hysterical over which votives they could
have, a groom almost having the caterer cancel the deal 10 days prior - over
the price of tablecloth overlays (a troublemaking catering employee about to
be canned sent an e-mail saying these silk things would cost $10 instead of
$39, and he wanted that - I actually had worked it out with the caterer to
get them an entire extra bar & bartender for $0, plus the cloths for cost at
$21) which had bride in tears, me dragging groom outside to essentially
smack some sense into him, and after much ado & apologies he signed the dang
final contract. *Uh huh. *Then there was the bride who: spent 6 hours web
searching & re-ordering the little ribbon to tie the stupid little bags of
trinkets for the table because she thought the white on silver print she
already had didn't look good enough - however as this was 2 weeks prior to
the date, she still hadn't picked the music, and was the same one of "let's
change the flowers" fame. *To top it off, at the rehearsal - with 7
attendants - she announced the missing one was fired, it took nearly 3 hours
because no one could actually pay attention, 3 of them made a burger king
stop on the way (although dinner was happening after the rehearsal), and the
bride then got hysterical deciding that she didn't like the music... So the
music director & I swapped music around, made her happy, and got thru it.
I, her dad, and the photographer, managed to convince her that they could
not leave the church, go to downtown DC for photos (not at the monument for
which they had a permit), have the photographer not in the limo, and then
get back....AFTER...the cocktail reception. *Further, she wanted to go out
in Old Town Alexandria before the church for photos...that they'd just find
a good place. *Uh huh. *Yup. *She actually showed up 45 min after the
ceremony should've started ....with all but 2 groomsmen also with them.
Yup. *Only the best man and a couple of other usher wives were on time, the
groom got there about 15 min pre-ceremony. *But, as there was only 1 usher
at the church, no one got seated until the bridal party arrived. *Whereupon
I told them to get settled, fix hair, etc, while the bride started screaming
we can go right now. *No....your mom needs to have her hair fixed, and
people actually need to be seated. *Oh, why were the ushers with her? *They
decided it would be better to not have to drive in case of drinking. *Issue
- they were all staying in the hotel where the reception was to be, and
since they weren't going to be drinking in the church it was doubly idiotic.
Topping this - they had forgotten to pick up stuff for the church the day
before - candles for the stands, some other stuff - so my poor DH helped
out, ran around, and helped set-up, and when 2 usher wives showed up -they
nicely helped me. *Go figure. *I did get a huge, huge thank you and
apologies both at the reception & after. *But, the kicker - the mom still
owes me $350. *Actually, I should've known and not taken the client - or
done something - especially when my first task was to straighten out the
catering manager because "he won't answer our calls." *When I met with the
guy, he was awesome - turned out that these people had their initial
meeting, another meeting, then the typical 30-60 min menu tasting turned
into nearly 5 hours, and they had also now changed the menu twice. *Go
figure - but we got things set, worked thru the naïve stuff, and it was
indeed a gorgeous wedding. *With no photos downtown or in Alexandria.

The tales of nonsense go on. *Which is why when I was really doing a good
amount of events I tried not to do more than 2 weddings a year, though I
will do the "day of organizing" thing for a flat fee. *That's a regular kind
of thing here - coming in and handling the actual day, which means
contacting all the vendors about 2 weeks prior, and then just handling
things on the day.



That said, I have a big mouth but I don't think I would say anything,
the die is cast and whatever you said, either way someone would be
unhappy with you. *Best leave it alone.

Yup, you're too right. DH said he thinks the 2 older girls will likely say
something spontaneous to me, as they want to arrange shopping trips.

Ellice

I had heard about weddings that were over-planned by the mother, where
the bride didn't realize what had happened almost until the wedding
was over. When I got married, DH had already been married twice so
wasn't looking forward to a "big" wedding. I, however, wanted a day
to remember, though it didn't have to be big. My mom had been married
in Reno and hadn't ever had a "real" wedding. Sooooo, we had a small
wedding with a large audience! :-) My two attendants were my younger
sister (16 at the time) and my best friend from 7th grade, who was 7
months pregnant at the time. My mom managed to find a pattern for a
simple dress and fabric appropriate for both. My two older sisters
(my mom did ask if I was sure I didn't want them also in the wedding)
bought my dress (of the rack / under $200) and helped in other ways.
Frankly, DH didn't KNOW two other guys he liked well enough who would
have wanted to be in a wedding. :-) My mom hosted the reception in
her back yard. DH and I had given her our list of people we wanted
there and told her she could then invite (or NOT invite) anyone her
heart desired. :-) As far as I recall, everyone was happy and I got
my nice day to remember without anyone needing to spend a
fortune. :-) Makes me all the happier when I read or watch about
other people's nightmares!!! :-)) The wedding IS important but, after
all, it is ONLY a day; it's the years that follow that are REALLY
important! :-) Ahhhh. It will be 30 years in August and I can still
gush and babble about my wedding. :-) Maybe I better go stitch
something. :-) Good luck, Elice, with the details and the
family. :-)
Liz from Humbug