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***Very OT*** CHRISTMAS ***OT***



 
 
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  #11  
Old December 5th 05, 04:49 PM posted to rec.crafts.textiles.needlework
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Default ***Very OT*** CHRISTMAS ***OT***

I'm with you. Those are both right up there on the "stupid ideas" list
along with the whole inclusive language thing my church did back when I
was in college.

A very bright and well-churched young lady sat next to me in church
yesterday. Before the service began she looked up at the video display
which proclaimed the day to be the second Sunday of Advent. She turned
to me and asked, "How can this be the second Sunday of Advent when it's
only the first Sunday of December? Is it because Christmas is on a
Sunday this year?" It is no surprise that even "Christians" have
secularized the season if the teachings of the church are so poor!

wrote:
Just out of curiosity -- I really wondered what everyone thinks about
all the "Happy Holiday" songs and etc? I saw some schoolchildren on tv
the other night singing what SHOULD have been "We wish you a Merry
Christmas" ... but now it's all "We wish you Happy Holidays". And then
Saturday Night Live did a spoof on the whole thing too. Frankly, I'm
apalled. Have people forgotten Christmas is the celebration of the
birth of Christ? Or is it all now just a reason to give presents? Oh
and my step-daughter came to visit from college this weekend, and
she's upset that history books no longer can print A.D. or B.C. -- now
it all has to be CE or BCE (common era and before common era). Sorry,
I'll shut up now. Except to say MERRY CHRISTMAS!

Jennifer/Poetta


www.ladybuglane.com

--
Brenda
Bilge Queen of Puzzle Pirates
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  #12  
Old December 5th 05, 05:04 PM posted to rec.crafts.textiles.needlework
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Default ***Very OT*** CHRISTMAS ***OT***

Everywhere and takes over Everything. Bowdlerizing carols is not the
way to make us feel more included. I would love to put the Christ
back in Christmas and put it back in church where it belongs.

Pax in terra,
Sara


I feel very much the way Sara does. As a non-Christian, I rather

enjoyed
seeing, and even participating in, Christmas celebrations with friends

over
the years but now it's become one big money making, commercial venture

that
starts too many months in advance of the holiday.

I would like to see everyone celebrate whatever they want, however they

want
and wherever they want, but leave me out of it and stop trying to cover

all
bases just to be politically correct. There will always be someone who
thinks it's not enough and calling it a holiday celebration simply won't
change that fact.


As a Christian, I agree entirely with Sara and Lucille. All that stuff in
the mall has nothing to do with the festival of Christmas. Christmas does
belong in church, and it belongs in hearts. Gather with people, share a
meal. Raise a glass. Make some music. Tell stories. Give to those in need.
Make peace. (hey...sounds like---Christmas, and Yule, and Hannukah,
and....what any good people do when they want to celebrate). I'll
celebrate any holiday with anybody, and hope you will do the same. The
world needs a lot more celebrations.
All the other stuff hurts people. Too much hype, too many
expectations--and people who are disappointed, exhausted, indebted, and
angry because something about their Christmas did not measure up to the
ones on TV.
Dawne


  #14  
Old December 5th 05, 05:19 PM posted to rec.crafts.textiles.needlework
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Default ***Very OT*** CHRISTMAS ***OT***


"Brenda Lewis" wrote ..
I'm with you. Those are both right up there on the "stupid ideas" list
along with the whole inclusive language thing my church did back when I
was in college.

We use inclusive language--who would we want to exclude???
Dawne


  #15  
Old December 5th 05, 05:24 PM posted to rec.crafts.textiles.needlework
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Default ***Very OT*** CHRISTMAS ***OT***


"Brenda Lewis" wrote

A very bright and well-churched young lady sat next to me in church
yesterday. Before the service began she looked up at the video display
which proclaimed the day to be the second Sunday of Advent. She turned
to me and asked, "How can this be the second Sunday of Advent when it's
only the first Sunday of December? Is it because Christmas is on a
Sunday this year?"

That stuff does confuse people (although.... how hard is it to count back 4
from Christmas and find the nearest Sunday??). I was reading through some
material from a course on Anglican fundamentals offered by a Diocese in
Wisconsin, and one of the benefits it stated was "you will never ever again
not know how to figure out when Easter is."
Dawne


  #16  
Old December 5th 05, 05:32 PM posted to rec.crafts.textiles.needlework
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Default ***Very OT*** CHRISTMAS ***OT***

We might not mean the same thing. The church I attended changed all the
hymns, scripture readings, etc. to make God (and any unnamed angels)
gender-neutral. As if anyone in the church can prove it either way!
All it did was make that which was familiar totally unrecognizable. The
church changed back once the ultra-feminist associate pastor left. I
also don't see much point in changing the words "brotherhood" and
"fellowship" to anything else.

Dawne Peterson wrote:
"Brenda Lewis" wrote ..

I'm with you. Those are both right up there on the "stupid ideas" list
along with the whole inclusive language thing my church did back when I
was in college.


We use inclusive language--who would we want to exclude???
Dawne



--
Brenda
Bilge Queen of Puzzle Pirates
  #17  
Old December 5th 05, 05:34 PM posted to rec.crafts.textiles.needlework
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Default ***Very OT*** CHRISTMAS ***OT***

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!

i heard a man on fox news say yesterday that this whole brou-ha-ha over
"Xmas-is verboten" is the radical right's knee-jerk reaction to to the
radical left's persistant "politically correct" nonsense!!!
they both seem to need to "one-up" each other on every, single issue!!!


makes sense to me......

btw-

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!!!!!




  #18  
Old December 5th 05, 05:35 PM posted to rec.crafts.textiles.needlework
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Default ***Very OT*** CHRISTMAS ***OT***

Easter is a bit trickier than counting back to find the start of Advent.
Interesting way to promote a course. I wonder what else it taught...

Dawne Peterson wrote:
That stuff does confuse people (although.... how hard is it to count back 4
from Christmas and find the nearest Sunday??). I was reading through some
material from a course on Anglican fundamentals offered by a Diocese in
Wisconsin, and one of the benefits it stated was "you will never ever again
not know how to figure out when Easter is."


--
Brenda
Bilge Queen of Puzzle Pirates
  #19  
Old December 5th 05, 06:07 PM posted to rec.crafts.textiles.needlework
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Default ***Very OT*** CHRISTMAS ***OT***


"Brenda Lewis" wrote...
We might not mean the same thing. The church I attended changed all the
hymns, scripture readings, etc. to make God (and any unnamed angels)
gender-neutral. As if anyone in the church can prove it either way!
All it did was make that which was familiar totally unrecognizable. The
church changed back once the ultra-feminist associate pastor left. I
also don't see much point in changing the words "brotherhood" and
"fellowship" to anything else.

You are right, inclusive language about God is tricky. The pronouns about
God in the lectionary we use are masculine, although, as a not particularly
ultra feminist, I try and avoid the pronouns and say God wherever possible.
(The first chapter of John, which I get to read Christmas Day, is a tad
challenging!!) Sometimes moving to language that is clearly metaphoric
helps, because, as you say, who really knows what God is, we can only
compare God to things we know. "God cares for us like a father" rather
than "is our father". After all, one of my favourite images is God
gathering us like a mother hen gathers chicks under her wing, and no one
(so far--but I may be being speciesist) has claimed this means God is a
large chicken.
Our most recent hymn book changed some language both for inclusive reasons
and to eliminate some outdated views of the world---and with mixed results.
Some works e.g. "the eyes of sinful men" becomes "our sinful human eyes".
But it does require considerable care and respect for how the lines scan.
Dawne


  #20  
Old December 5th 05, 06:13 PM posted to rec.crafts.textiles.needlework
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Default ***Very OT*** CHRISTMAS ***OT***

Brenda Lewis wrote:
A very bright and well-churched young lady sat next to me in church
yesterday. Before the service began she looked up at the video display
which proclaimed the day to be the second Sunday of Advent. She turned
to me and asked, "How can this be the second Sunday of Advent when it's
only the first Sunday of December? Is it because Christmas is on a
Sunday this year?" It is no surprise that even "Christians" have
secularized the season if the teachings of the church are so poor!


Well, actually, she was close...it IS because Christmas is on a Sunday
this year. This year is the longest possible Advent.

And when you think of Advent calendars, the ones you buy generally start
on December 1st and count down until the 25th. Even the ones in church
stores! They're not liturgically accurate most of the time.

Sue

--
--
Susan Hartman/Dirty Linen
The Magazine of Folk and World Music
http://www.dirtylinen.com
 




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