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  #1  
Old January 13th 04, 11:06 PM
COL. BILL KILGORE
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How about dem Packers, Mrs. G? What a bunch of losers. HA!
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  #2  
Old January 14th 04, 12:09 AM
Dianne Lewandowski
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COL. BILL KILGORE wrote:
How about dem Packers, Mrs. G? What a bunch of losers. HA!



Actually, the saddest part, to me, is that people actually put fake
cheese on their heads and then expect to be representative of the State
of Wisconsin.

The second exasperation is that school children are taken to field trips
to Packer's stadium (our tax dollars at work), and the young children swoon.

There are far better things in life to set as examples for children, for
our State, and for our country to worship and idolize. For
Pennsylvania, too.

Dianne

  #3  
Old January 14th 04, 01:09 AM
Roberta
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Oh, come on, Dianne. Lambeau is a GB icon. It defines that town, right or
wrong. It's not like Green Bay has that much else to offer. The only
reason I go back is to visit the people I grew up with who still live there.

I went to Lambeau as a kid many times...I grew up in GB...it was fun! But
then, football and athletics in general didn't seem to have as much
influence 25 years ago as they do now...I don't recall any swooning...

Roberta

"Dianne Lewandowski" wrote in message
...
COL. BILL KILGORE wrote:
How about dem Packers, Mrs. G? What a bunch of losers. HA!



Actually, the saddest part, to me, is that people actually put fake
cheese on their heads and then expect to be representative of the State
of Wisconsin.

The second exasperation is that school children are taken to field trips
to Packer's stadium (our tax dollars at work), and the young children

swoon.

There are far better things in life to set as examples for children, for
our State, and for our country to worship and idolize. For
Pennsylvania, too.

Dianne



  #4  
Old January 14th 04, 02:40 PM
Dianne Lewandowski
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Roberta wrote:
I went to Lambeau as a kid many times...I grew up in GB...it was fun! But
then, football and athletics in general didn't seem to have as much
influence 25 years ago as they do now...I don't recall any swooning...


Well, things have changed. It's a religion. And it's disgusting. If you
don't watch the games on television, people think your nuts. There's a
LOT of social pressure. And yes, the kids swoon. They bring homes jars
of dirt from the field. Some of our acquaintances have complained. And
wouldn't you rather your tax dollars be spent to send children to a
museum or other place of learning?

Athletics needs to be put back in perspective. And no, I don't want my
State to be represented by the words "Cheeseheads". In fact, Wisconsin
Public Radio has had quite a bit of discussion on this issue, as has the
capital of Madison.

If the level of education, culture and refinement were higher, I could
look at it as a joke. It's not a joke. It's plain sad.

Dianne

  #5  
Old January 14th 04, 04:33 PM
Ellice
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On 1/14/04 8:40 AM,"Dianne Lewandowski" posted:

Roberta wrote:
I went to Lambeau as a kid many times...I grew up in GB...it was fun! But
then, football and athletics in general didn't seem to have as much
influence 25 years ago as they do now...I don't recall any swooning...


Well, things have changed. It's a religion. And it's disgusting. If you


It's not different - it's just more visible. What do you think about the
Black Sox scandal - nearly 100 years ago. Or when Roger Maris was about to
break the home run record 40 years ago - people were dedicated and
completely involved in following their teams. As a matter of interesting
sociology, it seems that during times of economic woe, political upheaval -
the following of professional sports takes an upturn. People become more
involved, obsessive. I don't know why, but it's something that has been
noted over the last century - maybe it's the distraction from things which
they feel they can't control.

don't watch the games on television, people think your nuts. There's a
LOT of social pressure. And yes, the kids swoon. They bring homes jars
of dirt from the field. Some of our acquaintances have complained. And
wouldn't you rather your tax dollars be spent to send children to a
museum or other place of learning?


So, in a place where the football team, a little town owning the team, the
stadium is something they feel is of premiere importance you're the one who
doesn't. Are people painting epithets on your fence, toilet-papering your
yard, throwing stones? Or are they just shaking their heads because they
don't get why you don't care? They probably think you're nuts because the
Packers are the biggest thing in Green Bay and a source of pride. Oh well. I
personally believe that Americans spend way too much money, on entertainment
and those who entertain us - actors and athletes. But, as a society
evidently the majority goes with it. And it's a skill to be a world class
athlete, or a great actor, so we have to deal with that. It's better than
worshipping gun-fighters in the 19th century, or early 20th.

Athletics needs to be put back in perspective. And no, I don't want my


Sure, but even the ancient Greeks place high value on top athletes, the
Romans on gladiators, and these athletes had followings.

State to be represented by the words "Cheeseheads". In fact, Wisconsin
Public Radio has had quite a bit of discussion on this issue, as has the
capital of Madison.


So, don't wear a Cheesehead. You're just stuck. I don't think anyone really
thinks that everyone from Wisconsin wears foam cheese on their head. What
about the folks in Milwaukee with Beer Cans instead ;^) ?

If the level of education, culture and refinement were higher, I could
look at it as a joke. It's not a joke. It's plain sad.


Y'know you're entitled to your opinion. But, if this is what people want,
and they're happy - it's their right. What right do you really have to say
that they're wrong? If you don't like the socio-economic-cultural
environment, then I'd say find a place that you will like. Have your spouse
do a job search, and move. There are many cities and towns across the
country that have museums, and little symphonies - find one you like. If
you're looking for higher education levels on the average - then you have to
move either to a University town - where it's disparate - or a metro area
that doesn't have an industrial basis - where the basis is now white collar
work - like Silicon Valley, or the MD/DC/VA area to name 2. Or even in the
city of Pittsburgh - since the steel mills shut, the town has shifted it's
economic base - but they're crazy for their teams in Pgh, and that would bug
you. I don't think you'd like it here - as my guess would be you'd think
people are tooo competitive. Just a hunch.

When I first lived in Pgh, I was really struck by the steel-worker
situation. But then, with some time and observation I came to some odd
thoughts. This was an entire class of hard working folks who were well paid,
and had a culture of the kids staying in that field - not getting more
education, moving out, changing their life - instead it was work hard during
the week, have a big-screen tv, go to Steelers games, and drink beer - that
was what the money was for - not moving to nicer houses, etc. Some were able
to buy out their company, and come back to work for $19/hr anticipating
getting more - while others refused to do that (from about $28-35/hr) and
instead ended up in a world of hurt and job retraining to $8/hr jobs. They
weren't prepared to do anything else, and hadn't wanted most of the kids to
do anything else. I had to think hard about this - because part of me felt
this was a stupid way to live - making $50K a year in the 80s, and living in
bedroom communities of little houses - but you'd see shiny trucks or
Camaros, and all those big-screen tvs thru the windows - and very full
little bars. Finally, for me, I decided what right do I have to say their
choice of life-style is wrong? If people don't want to "better" themselves,
aren't interested in art, or music - and are wanting to just watch their
football team, wear stupid things on their heads, and drink a lot of beer in
their off time - so be it. Maybe they're the smart ones - as they're less
stressed.

I'm sure that there are people who think that spending time doing needlework
is crazier than putting a foam cheese wedge on your head. Just something to
think about.

Ellice

  #6  
Old January 14th 04, 05:20 PM
Brenda Lewis
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Dianne, if your taxes are supporting the school, why don't you check
with them to see *why* they thought this was an appropriate field trip?
Perhaps a corporate partner-in-education funded the trip as a reward
for improved test scores or some other academic achievement. They
could also be learning about diversity since a pro football team usually
has a broad cross-section of races/ethnicities and religions. OK, no
great gender diversity...

Personally, I think students should be taken out and taught the ugly
side to sports and entertainment careers. They really need to talk to
the men and women who were so talented they were supposed to set the
world on fire and then they fizzled immediately, had a career-ending
injury, public opinion changed and someone else was hotter, they
couldn't take the stress, drugs, booze, relationships (euphemism here),
etc. Maybe a fallen idol can get through to them that the achievement
of an education is something no one can take away from them. Since
schools are patting students on the back and saying whatever they do is
just fine, someone has to shoot them down with the truth--either about
how great they aren't or how hard it is to make it even if you are good
and you better have a net below you when you fall. Simon Cowell can't
be there for everyone.

Another possible plus would be if such a trip got students more
interested in physical activity (in a healthy, non-steroidal way). This
is also the only way some children will ever get to see such a place
since their parents can't afford to take them or don't consider sports
events something to attend. I'm sure some of them were wide-eyed
because they have never seen the inside of such a big place and can't
imagine that so many people would be there at once. A football game is
a cultural event just as much as a ballet or a rock concert. I bet the
students from well-to-do fan families (who regularly attend games) had a
different perspective.

--
Brenda Lewis
WIP: "Pink Baby" photo frame, Candamar

  #7  
Old January 14th 04, 05:40 PM
Cheryl Isaak
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On 1/14/04 8:40 AM, in article ,
"Dianne Lewandowski" wrote:

Roberta wrote:
I went to Lambeau as a kid many times...I grew up in GB...it was fun! But
then, football and athletics in general didn't seem to have as much
influence 25 years ago as they do now...I don't recall any swooning...


Well, things have changed. It's a religion. And it's disgusting. If you
don't watch the games on television, people think your nuts. There's a
LOT of social pressure. And yes, the kids swoon. They bring homes jars
of dirt from the field. Some of our acquaintances have complained. And
wouldn't you rather your tax dollars be spent to send children to a
museum or other place of learning?

Athletics needs to be put back in perspective. And no, I don't want my
State to be represented by the words "Cheeseheads". In fact, Wisconsin
Public Radio has had quite a bit of discussion on this issue, as has the
capital of Madison.

If the level of education, culture and refinement were higher, I could
look at it as a joke. It's not a joke. It's plain sad.

Dianne



Interesting, LOCALLY, the schools don't pay for the field trips or for any
speaker brought into the schools. (I arrange both for a local elementary
school, so I am in a position to know first hand.) Field trips and speakers
are either funded by the parents directly, by the PTA/PTO or privately paid
for by a group or individual.

SO - are you absolutely sure that TAX dollars are used? I can't imagine
that a "fun" trip like that wouldn't have been cut.

Cheryl

  #8  
Old January 14th 04, 07:32 PM
Caryn
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Interesting, LOCALLY, the schools don't pay for the field trips or for any
speaker brought into the schools. (I arrange both for a local elementary
school, so I am in a position to know first hand.) Field trips and speakers
are either funded by the parents directly, by the PTA/PTO or privately paid
for by a group or individual.

SO - are you absolutely sure that TAX dollars are used? I can't imagine
that a "fun" trip like that wouldn't have been cut.

Cheryl




Lord knows WE pay for our kids various field trips!

Our school district doesn't even use school buses for trips, but charter buses.

And they go to places like Farms with corn mazes in the fall. Not really
educational, but they will also go to things like the Nat'l Archives and the
Kennedy Center.

I know that on a trip to the Nat'l Aquarium in Baltimore, a small side trip to
Camden Yards was part of the agenda. Didn't really bother me, not that I give
a flying hoot about the Orioles.

Caryn
Blue Wizard Designs
http://hometown.aol.com/crzy4xst/index.html
Updated: 7/7/03 -- now available Dragon of the Stars
View WIPs at: http://community.webshots.com/user/carynlws (Caryn's UFO's)
  #9  
Old January 14th 04, 08:20 PM
Dianne Lewandowski
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Ellice wrote:
[snip] As a matter of interesting
sociology, it seems that during times of economic woe, political upheaval -
the following of professional sports takes an upturn. People become more
involved, obsessive. I don't know why, but it's something that has been
noted over the last century - maybe it's the distraction from things which
they feel they can't control.


I'd like to see some statistics that show this - over the course of
history. Along those lines, the course of history has shown us some
rather nasty adherences to idolatry (men thrown in the lions den while
the crowd cheers; or, public hangings and public beheadings). Just
because a society does it - and it's a majority - doesn't make it
sensible or furthering the culture of a society.

don't watch the games on television, people think your nuts. There's a
LOT of social pressure. And yes, the kids swoon. They bring homes jars
of dirt from the field. Some of our acquaintances have complained. And
wouldn't you rather your tax dollars be spent to send children to a
museum or other place of learning?



So, in a place where the football team, a little town owning the team, the
stadium is something they feel is of premiere importance you're the one who
doesn't. Are people painting epithets on your fence,


As a matter of fact: yes, people have torn up my gardens, toilet
papered my yard, paint-balled my house.

They probably think you're nuts because the
Packers are the biggest thing in Green Bay and a source of pride.


Purchasing baby blankets in packer green with gold helmets, packer
jackets for any age, packer pajamas . . . come on. This isn't
enthusiasm, it's a fetish, and it's not healthy. Pride is one thing. I
used to cheer the Bears, but I didn't have anything in the house (like
kitchen curtains) that had the Bears logo all over it. Nor glasses in
my cupboard.

Until recently, if you went in the local JC Penney store, 2/3's of it
were Packer-related merchandise. That's since changed, thank the gods.

Oh well. I
personally believe that Americans spend way too much money, on entertainment
and those who entertain us - actors and athletes. But, as a society
evidently the majority goes with it.


But that doesn't make the majority correct in their behavior. In fact,
in my opinion, it says something very negative about us.

And it's a skill to be a world class
athlete, or a great actor, so we have to deal with that. It's better than
worshipping gun-fighters in the 19th century, or early 20th.


I don't know of anyone who worshipped gunfighters. Some people did get
some glee out of the Bonnie & Clyde escapades, but that had to do with
the Depression and what many considered unfair banking at that time.

Sure, but even the ancient Greeks place high value on top athletes, the
Romans on gladiators, and these athletes had followings.


As I said: there's a difference between a fan and a fetish.

I stated: State to be represented by the words "Cheeseheads". In
fact, Wisconsin
Public Radio has had quite a bit of discussion on this issue, as has the
capital of Madison.


To which Ellice replied: So, don't wear a Cheesehead. You're just stuck.

Stuck on what? Sanity? Obviously, from my above paragraph, there's
plenty more that think the moniker of "cheesehead" does nothing to
promote the value of the State.


don't think anyone really
thinks that everyone from Wisconsin wears foam cheese on their head. What
about the folks in Milwaukee with Beer Cans instead ;^) ?


You might be surprised. Then again, of course not. But that is a
phrase that has become our State's moniker: Cheesehead. That doesn't
exactly promote us positively.


Y'know you're entitled to your opinion. But, if this is what people want,
and they're happy - it's their right. What right do you really have to say
that they're wrong? If you don't like the socio-economic-cultural
environment, then I'd say find a place that you will like. Have your spouse
do a job search, and move.


This is the same hue and cry, worded slightly differently: "If you
don't like America, leave." Surely you can come up with a better
argument. Have you looked at the labor market lately? The
socio-economic status of the U.S. as a whole?

Some people like to stand up and say, "This isn't helping, it's
hurting." Others don't have to listen, but that doesn't make the
statement "wrong".

Dianne

  #10  
Old January 14th 04, 08:27 PM
Dianne Lewandowski
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You may be right. These annual trips may be supported by parents group.
My tax dollars may not be funding them. However, that tells you a
lot, too. :-) It's rather scarey. They've been making these field
trips for years.
Dianne

Cheryl Isaak wrote:

On 1/14/04 8:40 AM, in article ,
"Dianne Lewandowski" wrote:


Roberta wrote:

I went to Lambeau as a kid many times...I grew up in GB...it was fun! But
then, football and athletics in general didn't seem to have as much
influence 25 years ago as they do now...I don't recall any swooning...


Well, things have changed. It's a religion. And it's disgusting. If you
don't watch the games on television, people think your nuts. There's a
LOT of social pressure. And yes, the kids swoon. They bring homes jars
of dirt from the field. Some of our acquaintances have complained. And
wouldn't you rather your tax dollars be spent to send children to a
museum or other place of learning?

Athletics needs to be put back in perspective. And no, I don't want my
State to be represented by the words "Cheeseheads". In fact, Wisconsin
Public Radio has had quite a bit of discussion on this issue, as has the
capital of Madison.

If the level of education, culture and refinement were higher, I could
look at it as a joke. It's not a joke. It's plain sad.

Dianne




Interesting, LOCALLY, the schools don't pay for the field trips or for any
speaker brought into the schools. (I arrange both for a local elementary
school, so I am in a position to know first hand.) Field trips and speakers
are either funded by the parents directly, by the PTA/PTO or privately paid
for by a group or individual.

SO - are you absolutely sure that TAX dollars are used? I can't imagine
that a "fun" trip like that wouldn't have been cut.

Cheryl


 




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