black onyx source request

Hello, all and happy holidays.

I have scanned these newsgroups and I think this may be the right place to
ask this question. I am in need of a single black onyx "marble" of 5/16"
diameter. As I understand from my research, black onyx is really brown onyx
which has been dyed. I have the one brown onyx stone which could be dyed if
I could find a suitable vendor who does that sort of thing.

What I am asking for is A) a source for a black onyx sphere of 5/16" or B) a
source to have dyed the brown one I now hold.

Thanks for your understanding.

please reply to me in email if possible and here if appropriate. please
replace the word dot with . and remove the underscores.

On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 03:33:18 GMT, "fred (remove underscores, add . )"
wrote:

What I am asking for is A) a source for a black onyx sphere of 5/16" or B) a
source to have dyed the brown one I now hold.


Maybe there is a lapidary near you? He could probobly make one to
order.

-Jake

"fred (remove underscores, add . )" wrote:

Hello, all and happy holidays.

I have scanned these newsgroups and I think this may be the right place to
ask this question. I am in need of a single black onyx "marble" of 5/16"
diameter. As I understand from my research, black onyx is really brown onyx
which has been dyed. I have the one brown onyx stone which could be dyed if
I could find a suitable vendor who does that sort of thing.

What I am asking for is A) a source for a black onyx sphere of 5/16" or B) a
source to have dyed the brown one I now hold.

Thanks for your understanding.

please reply to me in email if possible and here if appropriate. please
replace the word dot with . and remove the underscores.

http://www.edelstein.ch/de-ch/dept_778.html
http://www.edelstein.ch/index.html?t...tml&lang=de-ch
--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

Thank you for the reference URL. I visited the web site but do not speak
any language other than American English (and that is open for debate). I
did send an email with the hope that they have a translator and would be
able to answer my questions.

fred

On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 18:46:36 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry "fred (remove
underscores, add . )" wrote:

Thank you for the reference URL. I visited the web site but do not speak
any language other than American English (and that is open for debate). I
did send an email with the hope that they have a translator and would be
able to answer my questions.

fred

Fred, the company is in Switzerland, and the site is in (mostly) the german
language. But for this need, that shouldn't be too much of a problem. The link
Abrasha gave you is directly to the black onyx balls, and even without speaking
german, you should be able to figure out the part of the descriptions that gives
the millimeter size range for each stock number item shown, and over on the
right, you'll also see prices in parentheses, given in euros. You should be
able to figure that one out, since the euro isn't too far removed in value from
the dollar, though i don't recall the exact exchange rate (you could find it in
moments with google). In addition, on the home page (click the "home"
button...), you'll also see, about half way down on the right, an "english site"
link. that is only partially true, as I was only able to find a "terms and
conditions" page, and an index page which purport to be in english. The english
is rather obviously obtained by feeding the german text into some computer
program translater, and it's worth reading just for comic relief. Not a great
translation, to say the least, but you can get the gist of what they're saying
easily enough. The key point to note is that if you give them your visa or
mastercard number, they can take it from there, and ship you your item. Any
customs duty due will be charged by customs, but I doubt this is a problem for
such a small order. (anyone know?)

cheers

Peter

I could not find the english link, but I did peruse more of the site. I
happened across the conversion button, so the prices were displayed in US
dollars.

I've learned more about onyx than I ever thought I'd need to know. :-)
Unfortunately, I am not the beneficiary of this effort, nor is it a gift. I
recently sold a Franklin Mint Chinese Checkers via eBay and did not inspect
the set before I posted it. One of the black onyx stones was missed in the
coloration process and the buyer is insistent about having all ten marbles
of the same color.

Unfortunately, FM no longer provides support and will not sell me one stone,
not even an entire set. I discovered yesterday that FM is once again
selling the Chinese Checkers game, but that didn't change their service.

Thanks for the information and advisories.

Happy holidays.

On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:20:08 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry "fred (remove
underscores, add . )" wrote:


I've learned more about onyx than I ever thought I'd need to know. :-)
Unfortunately, I am not the beneficiary of this effort, nor is it a gift. I
recently sold a Franklin Mint Chinese Checkers via eBay and did not inspect
the set before I posted it. One of the black onyx stones was missed in the
coloration process and the buyer is insistent about having all ten marbles
of the same color.

Unfortunately, FM no longer provides support and will not sell me one stone,
not even an entire set. I discovered yesterday that FM is once again
selling the Chinese Checkers game, but that didn't change their service.


Seems to me you've got several decent options. For my money, the most logical
would be to just offer the ebay buyer a refund, and take the set back, relisting
it with the note that one of the beads is a mismatch, but it's that way just as
supplied by FM. Whether you can deduct your costs for shipping, ebay listing
fees, etc, depends on how you wrote your auction text, and whether you want to
risk getting neg feedback, etc.

Or, become a REALLY squeeky wheel for FM. talk to the customer service rep's
supervisor, or ask to speak to someone higher up. Point out that you're asking
to BUY a replacement for a bead they supplied, which is defective, and that
perhaps they should consider whether they wish you to be relating to any who
will listen that they do not support their own products... I'd bet if you
insist enough, and to the right folks, they may see the light.

Or, if you're a masochist, you could try recoloring the bead. Chances are, it
was not missed, but that it's a bit denser chalcedony (less porous) than the
material of the other beads, and just didn't take the color as well, so re-dying
it may not improve it. But if you want, you could try. Also, since it's
already polished, the surface may be too well sealed to accept more color. but
then it only needs a little...

The process most used is to dilute any grade of honey with an equal part of
water, adding a teaspoon of copper sulphate per quart of the honey solution to
retard molds, and immersing the bead or agate (very well cleaned first) in this
solution for at least a four weeks, while gently heating it. Not boiling, but
an oven perhaps at the lowest setting, or a warming plate, or the like. Keep
covered to keep it from drying out.

then rinse and dry the bead with gentle heat for at least a couple hours.

Now the bead must be boiled in concentrated sulphuric acid. Ordinary industrial
grade is fine. It must be left in this boiling acid for 18 to 24 hours, which
carbonizes any sugar absorbed into the stone's pores, resulting in the black
color. Obviously, this part of the process is dangerous. Boiling dilute acid
is already nasty enough, but this is the concentrated stuff. Do it outside, be
sure to use a glass/pyrex container, and take needed care with the highly
corrosive and dangerous fumes.

Allow the boiling container to cool before attempting to remove the stone, then
carefuly remove, rinse, and soak in sodium bicarb to neutralize any remaining
acid.

If you're lucky, you'll then have nicely black onyx.

but as I said, chances are the reason the bead is still brown is that it wasn't
quite porous enough in the first place to fully color properly, and FM's quality
control folks missed the error.

Hope that helps.

Peter Rowe

wow! That's a great response. I was wondering why it was so hard to find
information on how to dye onyx and now I know!

I've thought of refunding the money, but the buyer expects me to pay return
shipping and I don't think that's quite fair for a single stone, which is,
after all, onyx, just not the exact same color as the others. I think the
price I'll pay might be a minor bad feedback, but that's acceptable for an
otherwise good score.

I'd love to be able to try the re-coloration process, but the investment in
chemical and time is out of range of reasonable in this case. I am not sure
the new owner would be willing to relinquish the stone for a month, although
he may have little options.

Do you think it is likely that there is a commercial operation or even an
amateur op which would be willing to take this on contract? Also, if the
coloration would not "take" it wouldn't make things any worse, would it?

I'm always appreciative of the positive aspects of the newsgroups and this
thread reinforces my feelings.

thanks again

fred

On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 18:42:31 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry "fred (remove
underscores, add . )" wrote:

I've thought of refunding the money, but the buyer expects me to pay return
shipping and I don't think that's quite fair for a single stone, which is,
after all, onyx, just not the exact same color as the others. I think the
price I'll pay might be a minor bad feedback, but that's acceptable for an
otherwise good score.

It seems to me the buyer should understand that the set you sold is exactly as
Franklin mint made and sold it. It's not like you damaged it or sold a
defective second. Someone bought it in new condition like that, and it passed
F.M.s quality control, and if the manufacturer didn't get it to this buyers
satisfaction, it seems unfair that he/she should hold you responsible. Unless
you're some sort of official agent for Franklin mint, they buyer should
understand that buying stuff on ebay is not the same as full retail purchases as
the store, and they're taking at least a little bit of a chance. I'd bet if
they bought it at a F.M. store they would also have trouble with a return, at
least after a period of time. Perhaps you can suggest that you'll refund the
original shipping charge, but ask them to pay the return shipping. That splits
it. Of course, much of this depends on just how you worded your auction text.
There's a reason some of the more prolific sellers spend a good deal of text
space on terms and conditions of purchase regarding used, second hand, or
otherwise not quite new merchandise, or even the new stuff. I can show you any
number of catalogs I can buy from where a return for refund does not include the
return shipping charges.


I'd love to be able to try the re-coloration process, but the investment in
chemical and time is out of range of reasonable in this case. I am not sure
the new owner would be willing to relinquish the stone for a month, although
he may have little options.

And as I suggested, there's a distinct possibility that the color would not
improve. I would not be surprised if the stone was a good deal lighter when
first cut, and this is just as much color as it would accept. Recoloring the
thing would not add more if that's the case.


Do you think it is likely that there is a commercial operation or even an
amateur op which would be willing to take this on contract? Also, if the
coloration would not "take" it wouldn't make things any worse, would it?

I would not likely make things worse. I just might not make it better.

I think you're best bet for a fix would be to find a local lapidary (stone
cutter) who could cut and polish a duplicate bead for you.

Or just tell this buyer that they are being unreasonable, and offer to refund
the purchase price minus all shipping charges if they are not happy. Stick by
your guns. That's pretty common policy among retail mail order firms. And it's
not like shipping costs are so outlandish.

Oh, and next time, examine your merchandise a bit more carefully when describing
it, or at least, carefully lay out your return/guarantee policies.

Peter Rowe

I'm always appreciative of the positive aspects of the newsgroups and this
thread reinforces my feelings.

thanks again

fred

Try www.mrtravers.com/prices reliable!
r.

"fred (remove underscores, add . )" wrote in message
...
Hello, all and happy holidays.

I have scanned these newsgroups and I think this may be the right place to
ask this question. I am in need of a single black onyx "marble" of 5/16"
diameter. As I understand from my research, black onyx is really brown
onyx
which has been dyed. I have the one brown onyx stone which could be dyed
if
I could find a suitable vendor who does that sort of thing.

What I am asking for is A) a source for a black onyx sphere of 5/16" or B)
a
source to have dyed the brown one I now hold.

Thanks for your understanding.

please reply to me in email if possible and here if appropriate. please
replace the word dot with . and remove the underscores.