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Silver supplier question
I have a question that the group may be able to answer.
I am currently pricing a commission for a fairly complex set of Shabbat candlesticks. It is still in the design by committee stage, but it involves hammered silver reflectors. Originally the reflectors were a series of curved plates 3"x10". In as much as maintaining reflectivity was important. I suggested using Argentium silver. With such a high silver price, the premium is a much smaller percentage of the cost and it seemed like an ideal application. Then the designed changed. The reflectors were now a few plates 6"x10". "No problem", I sez, "I can use standard 6" wide Argentium sheets". Now that the customers are all hyped up on Argentium, they decide they want the reflectors 8"x10". My question is: Does any know if someone is producing Argentium sheets in wider widths? Preferably here in the states. There are some creases in the reflectors where I can hide a seam, if I have to, but I would really rather not have to solder 2-8" joints in each panel. Paul K. Dickman |
#2
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Silver supplier question
On Wed, 21 May 2008 18:55:00 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry "Paul K. Dickman"
wrote: In as much as maintaining reflectivity was important. I suggested using Argentium silver. With such a high silver price, the premium is a much smaller percentage of the cost and it seemed like an ideal application. You might ask Cindy Eid, a frequent participant on the Orchid list, if she knows of a source you can use. I don't, not in an 8 inch width. However, you might also consider changing the metal to be fine silver for the reflectors. It shares with Argentium silver the freedom from the level of oxidation/tarnish/fire stain found with standard sterling. Fine silver is indeed a bit softer, but if you've work hardened it by hammering, and since this is essentially a decorative/cerimonial object rather than something getting heavy wear and tear like worn jewelry, the softer metal shouldn't be such a big concern. And for sheer reflectivity, fine silver is the best there is... I'm guessing that you'd have an easier time finding a source for wide fine silver sheet, since any silver supplier who had wide enough mills could make it up for you, while finding it in Argentium means finding a supplier who's actually carrying that trademarked and patented (I think) product. That's likely a much smaller pool of suppliers. Hope that's of use. Peter |
#3
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Silver supplier question
"Peter W.. Rowe," wrote in message ... On Wed, 21 May 2008 18:55:00 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry "Paul K. Dickman" wrote: In as much as maintaining reflectivity was important. I suggested using Argentium silver. With such a high silver price, the premium is a much smaller percentage of the cost and it seemed like an ideal application. You might ask Cindy Eid, a frequent participant on the Orchid list, if she knows of a source you can use. I don't, not in an 8 inch width. However, you might also consider changing the metal to be fine silver for the reflectors. It shares with Argentium silver the freedom from the level of oxidation/tarnish/fire stain found with standard sterling. Fine silver is indeed a bit softer, but if you've work hardened it by hammering, and since this is essentially a decorative/cerimonial object rather than something getting heavy wear and tear like worn jewelry, the softer metal shouldn't be such a big concern. And for sheer reflectivity, fine silver is the best there is... I'm guessing that you'd have an easier time finding a source for wide fine silver sheet, since any silver supplier who had wide enough mills could make it up for you, while finding it in Argentium means finding a supplier who's actually carrying that trademarked and patented (I think) product. That's likely a much smaller pool of suppliers. Hope that's of use. Peter Unfortunately, all the curves and creases on the reflectors are in one direction. The cross section perpendicular to these is essentially flat sheet. Then they get hinged together into a large triptych and the candle holders get hung off these panels. Structurally, it is like three sheets of fanfold computer paper with a brick taped to the bottom of each sheet. All the planishing in the world, won't make fine silver stiff enough. I'll poke my head over to the Orchid list. I think I met Cynthia at a workshop back when I was in college. I'll joint the sheets if I have to. Paul K. Dickman |
#4
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Silver supplier question
"Paul K. Dickman" wrote in message ... I have a question that the group may be able to answer. I am currently pricing a commission for a fairly complex set of Shabbat candlesticks. It is still in the design by committee stage, but it involves hammered silver reflectors. Originally the reflectors were a series of curved plates 3"x10". In as much as maintaining reflectivity was important. I suggested using Argentium silver. With such a high silver price, the premium is a much smaller percentage of the cost and it seemed like an ideal application. Then the designed changed. The reflectors were now a few plates 6"x10". "No problem", I sez, "I can use standard 6" wide Argentium sheets". Now that the customers are all hyped up on Argentium, they decide they want the reflectors 8"x10". My question is: Does any know if someone is producing Argentium sheets in wider widths? Preferably here in the states. There are some creases in the reflectors where I can hide a seam, if I have to, but I would really rather not have to solder 2-8" joints in each panel. If you can't get them in the USA then any of the big UK bullion suppliers will make them, for a price... -- William Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. |
#5
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Silver supplier question
William Black wrote:
"Paul K. Dickman" wrote in message ... I have a question that the group may be able to answer. I am currently pricing a commission for a fairly complex set of Shabbat candlesticks. It is still in the design by committee stage, but it involves hammered silver reflectors. Originally the reflectors were a series of curved plates 3"x10". In as much as maintaining reflectivity was important. I suggested using Argentium silver. With such a high silver price, the premium is a much smaller percentage of the cost and it seemed like an ideal application. Then the designed changed. The reflectors were now a few plates 6"x10". "No problem", I sez, "I can use standard 6" wide Argentium sheets". Now that the customers are all hyped up on Argentium, they decide they want the reflectors 8"x10". My question is: Does any know if someone is producing Argentium sheets in wider widths? Preferably here in the states. There are some creases in the reflectors where I can hide a seam, if I have to, but I would really rather not have to solder 2-8" joints in each panel. If you can't get them in the USA then any of the big UK bullion suppliers will make them, for a price... I second W.Black's advice. I went to to Cookson metals Birmingham. I needed sheet 15in wide by 15in long by 1/8th in thick. No problem. they said. Also for making 500 silver coins, I needed 7 kilos of fine silver sheet in 7in by 7in by 1/8th in. This time the best source was Englehard industries plating anodes. Cheapest way to get it. If your stuck Ill source it for you for a charge. Ted frater dorset UK |
#6
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Silver supplier question
"William Black" wrote in message ... If you can't get them in the USA then any of the big UK bullion suppliers will make them, for a price... -- William Black There's the rub. I figure that the jointing and moderate waste from falloff it will cost an extra 400 USD for me to joint together the 30 oz of silver. That's 200 GBP. By the time you add up custom rolling, paperwork, duty and shipping, it might break even Paul K. Dickman |
#7
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Silver supplier question
"Paul K. Dickman" wrote in message ... "William Black" wrote in message ... If you can't get them in the USA then any of the big UK bullion suppliers will make them, for a price... -- William Black There's the rub. I figure that the jointing and moderate waste from falloff it will cost an extra 400 USD for me to joint together the 30 oz of silver. That's 200 GBP. By the time you add up custom rolling, paperwork, duty and shipping, it might break even Well I'm a big fan of Cookson's Precious Metals, they're not cheap but they'll do just about anything you ask. I have to say that I'm also a big fan of walking around that part of Birmingham and seeing what I can get done in the multitude of small specialist jewellery/silversmithing workshops that throng the Jewellery Quarter there. But I always spend far too much money in the tool suppliers... My favourite memory of Cookson's is going into the front counter there and seeing a chap pick up a lump of 22 carat gold that was about an inch square and two feet long, swing it up onto his shoulder, it was obviously a heavy lump, and walk out and off up the street... -- William Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. |
#8
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Silver supplier question
In article , "William Black"
wrote : a lump of 22 carat gold that was about an inch square and two feet long. I estimate that it would weigh about 600 lbs! He must have been quite stong! - G.H.Ireland -- _ _________________________________________ / \._._ |_ _ _ /' Orpheus Internet Services \_/| |_)| |(/_|_|_ / 'Internet for Everyone' _______ | ___________./ http://www.orpheusinternet.co.uk |
#9
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Silver supplier question
"Mr G H Ireland" wrote in message ... In article , "William Black" wrote : a lump of 22 carat gold that was about an inch square and two feet long. I estimate that it would weigh about 600 lbs! He must have been quite stong! Looked about 15 Kg to me. Last time I checked the stuff was about 20gm per cubic centimeter. Working it out it's 2.54x2.54x 66, which is about 425 cubic centimetres, which is about 8500 gm. If you reckon it weighed 600lbs I want to sell you some gold, by volume... -- William Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. |
#10
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Silver supplier question
Mr G H Ireland wrote:
In article , "William Black" wrote : a lump of 22 carat gold that was about an inch square and two feet long. I estimate that it would weigh about 600 lbs! He must have been quite stong! - G.H.Ireland Not even close! Not by a long shot! Specific gravity of fine gold is 19.32 and that of 18K gold is around 15.6. So, assuming the specific gravity for 22K gold is 19 (it is most likely not) the weight of a piece of rod as you describe would be 7.472 kg, which is 16.473 lb avoirdupois or 20.019 lb troy. -- Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com |
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