VERY OT !!! RCTN member seeking religious knowledge

Dr. Brat wrote:
Because something has worked for thousands of years, that doesn't make
it the best or only solution. Fathers arranged marriages for their
daughters for thousands of years.

Understand your point. I still believe it's a little bit more at
exhibitionism. A plaque on a building is a quiet, unobstrusive momento
in comparison. I firmly believe if having a gravesite is not enough, we
need to find another solution besides monuments on roadsides.

I do think, however, that any such law as the one you
mentioned would be subject to challenge under the First Amendment.

Not if it's on private or state-owned land. If these memorials get in
the way of general maintenance, or are unkempt, the State has an
interest for the greater common good (scenic views). Just as many
states have outlawed billboards. Or severely limited them.

Putting flowers on a spot to commemorate a deadly accident is not the
same as erecting crosses and paraphenalia. If you want to build a
memorial, plant daffodils (as Pat suggested was done and rejected the
idea as well). :-) At least it adds to the whole - and will last and
grow in volume through the decades. Or a similar flower, depending upon
your climate. It's even environmentally friendly.

Dianne
--
"The Journal of Needlework" - The E-zine for All Needleworkers
http://journal.heritageshoppe.com

There was some discussion around our region a while back about this - it
seems that people are gawking at the crosses, etc. and not paying attention
to their driving and bang! - another accident. There are still lots of them
around here tho' so I guess nothing has been done about it. It may sound
silly, but I get a chill whenever I see them - is that taking my attention
off the road - probably.

Sharon (N.B.)
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"Dr. Brat" wrote in message
...
Dianne Lewandowski wrote:
In my neck of the woods, it isn't MADD who is putting up the crosses, it
is families. The State of Wisconsin is trying to get a law through to
stop it.

On the face of it, that seems like a petty and unsympathetic law. What
is the basis for it?

Elizabeth
--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate
and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

It seems that ever since the death of Princess Diana that this piling up of
stuff on highways, etc. has gotten worse and worse .. it may sound cold but
whenever you see this on the news, some of the contributors seem to be
seeking out the camera. This is not to take away from MADD in any way -
anyone who drives drunk should be dealt with harshly.

Sharon (N.B.)
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"Lucretia Borgia" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:45:03 -0500, Dianne Lewandowski
wrote:



It just seems to me that there is more than grief involved here.
Problem is, I can't put into the right words how I feel about it.
Almost at exhibitionism.

Dianne

I am certain it is that in many cases. Sad case out Shad Bay way one
Christmas. Last day of school and although his mother had escorted
him to the school bus, he suddenly darted out on to the road and a
passing teacher in a van killed him.

Despite the terrible weather, teddies and flowers sprung as if by
magic on the spot. The poor mother could see this from her window.
The snow turned to slush and was swept all over the abandoned teddies
who flew into the ditch. I felt the teddies all at crazy angles in
the ditch were reminiscent of the little boy and that it was god
awful. I noticed she closed the curtains that faced the road, small
wonder. I really wanted to get out and pick up all the teddies and
mangled flowers and chuck them in the garbage, it was all quite
senseless.

However, I STILL say lol that the MADD crosses are more significant
because they carry a message, a poignant one.

"Dr. Brat" had some very interesting things to
say about Ot caring about memorials was VERY OT !!! RCTN
member seeking religious knowledge:

In my neck of the woods, it isn't MADD who is putting up the crosses, it
is families. The State of Wisconsin is trying to get a law through to
stop it.
On the face of it, that seems like a petty and unsympathetic law. What
is the basis for it?

One thing that occurs to me is that those roadside tributes can get
distracting to people driving by them, thus elevating risk of
*another* accident in that spot.

--
"The universe is quite robust in design and appears to be
doing just fine on its own, incompetent support staff notwithstanding.
:-)" - the Dennis formerly known as (evil), MCFL

Dianne and Elizabeth both make valid points. I do think this is
definitely an "agree to disagree" topic! I personally, and as I said
before it's strictly my personal feelings that I'm expressing, resent
being drug into someone else's public display of grief. There's a
display that I pass on my way to my Mother's that really revs up my
irritation factor, and I think is the one that has colored my feelings
on this whole topic. The story in short order, is that the daughter
went missing, where the marker is located is where her CAR was found,
not her body. There was never any forensic evidence found that proved
she died on or near that spot. Her body was actually found many miles
away in another state (I'm close to Kansas, so border events occur
frequently). I completely understand how her Mother, who is the one who
maintains the memorial, can and does grieve for her daughter on a daily
basis. But why should *I* have to be reminded on a daily basis? The
Mother lives in Kansas City, so only sees the spot one day a month,
when she comes up to redo the decorations. Those of us that live up
here see it daily. And because it is located on a sometimes treacherous
curve, I've seen vehicles veer out of their lanes, showing me that the
drivers have been distracted by it and aren't paying attention to the
curve that should be their focus. On that very curve, somewhere around
30 years ago (and egads! I'm old enough to remember it!) there was a
carload of college boys who tragically lost their lives because they
missed the curve, but there's no memorial display for them.

And contrary creature that I am, I understand the initial displays,
such as the example of Diana's death that was given. There was a case
in KC that I'm sure made national coverage, concerning the found
remains of "Baby Doe", a toddler who's headless body was found in a
park. There was a tremendous outpouring of flowers, candles, teddy
bears, cards, etc.. I understand the initial response was from a need
to express sorrow over the loss of an innocent child in some tangible
way, but what I don't understand is why not give all those toys to
living children in memory of Baby Doe, rather than leave them exposed
to the elements and ultimate ruin? I think it's the wastefulness I see
with some of these memorials that bothers me most. I'm inclined to
agree with Dianne, that in some ways, this is not really done for the
benefit of the deceased or as comfort to the surviving family, but for
some sort of exhibitionistic display.

Many years ago, I accompanied my SO on a delivery he made into
Arkansas. I remember seeing a road sign, posted by the state, on a very
curvy, circuitous stretch of road that said (paraphrasing a bit) "7
People have lost their lives this year on this road. Don't YOU be
number 8", but there were no roadside displays or memorials. I thought
that was great, as it gave fair warning that this road could be tricky
and to pay attention.

Loss happens. People die. It happens everyday. I have my own grief to
deal with, without having someone else's forced on me in areas where I
least expect to find it. And again, this is all strictly my own
personal outlook.
Tegan

"Dianne Lewandowski" wrote in message
...

It just seems to me that there is more than grief involved here.
Problem is, I can't put into the right words how I feel about it.
Almost at exhibitionism.

Dianne

Exactly right, Dianne. Like two women we know who took a day off work and
went all the way to Cambridge to lay flowers where two young girls were
murdered - one of their relatives asked "Why? Do you KNOW THEM?"

Everyone else came to the conclusion that they just hoped to be there when
the tv cameras were rolling to get their possible five seconds of fame! It
was different for Princess Diana`s enormous tribut of flowers - everyone
kind of felt they "knew" her. Even then I felt that so much more good could
have been done in her name if the cost of those flowers had gone to charity,
rsther than to filling the pockets of the florists! But then, as everyone
knows, I`m a cynic!

Pat P

Pat EAXStitch wrote:
"Dianne Lewandowski" wrote in message
...

It just seems to me that there is more than grief involved here.
Problem is, I can't put into the right words how I feel about it.
Almost at exhibitionism.

Dianne

Exactly right, Dianne. Like two women we know who took a day off work and
went all the way to Cambridge to lay flowers where two young girls were
murdered - one of their relatives asked "Why? Do you KNOW THEM?"

Everyone else came to the conclusion that they just hoped to be there when
the tv cameras were rolling to get their possible five seconds of fame! It
was different for Princess Diana`s enormous tribut of flowers - everyone
kind of felt they "knew" her. Even then I felt that so much more good could
have been done in her name if the cost of those flowers had gone to charity,
rsther than to filling the pockets of the florists! But then, as everyone
knows, I`m a cynic!

Pat P


Pat,

Is it really cynical to use one's common sense in that situation?

Given Diana's well publicized support of Anti-landmine organizations,
giving them the money you'd have spent on roses does seem to be a more
fitting tribute to Diana's life.

Ah well, clearly there are some who think that leaving distracting
piles of stuff on dangerous curves is a good thing. That taking a day
off work to leave flowers for strangers is worthwhile (especially if it
gets them on TV).

I'd prefer to be among those who use some common sense!

Caryn

"Dianne Lewandowski" wrote in message
...
Dr. Brat wrote:
Because something has worked for thousands of years, that doesn't make
it the best or only solution. Fathers arranged marriages for their
daughters for thousands of years.

Understand your point. I still believe it's a little bit more at
exhibitionism. A plaque on a building is a quiet, unobstrusive momento
in comparison. I firmly believe if having a gravesite is not enough, we
need to find another solution besides monuments on roadsides.

I do think, however, that any such law as the one you
mentioned would be subject to challenge under the First Amendment.

Not if it's on private or state-owned land. If these memorials get in
the way of general maintenance, or are unkempt, the State has an
interest for the greater common good (scenic views). Just as many
states have outlawed billboards. Or severely limited them.

Putting flowers on a spot to commemorate a deadly accident is not the
same as erecting crosses and paraphenalia. If you want to build a
memorial, plant daffodils (as Pat suggested was done and rejected the
idea as well). :-) At least it adds to the whole - and will last and
grow in volume through the decades. Or a similar flower, depending upon
your climate. It's even environmentally friendly.

Dianne
--
"The Journal of Needlework" - The E-zine for All Needleworkers
http://journal.heritageshoppe.com

I like the flower planting idea - but in the shape of a cross, heart, or
something, still forms an inadvisable distraction - the cross I mentioned is
still clearly recognisable as such, and it`s been there for thirty years to
MY knowledge - but I`ve never met anyone who knows the name of who it
commemorates! If you just plant flowers in a less obvious manner - only
those who know will notice them. That`s a nice thought, to me, and not
likely to pose a problem.

We have several plaques on walls where famous people LIVED. There are also
a few memorials in streets where people of note died - a Policewoman who was
killed in her line of duty, for instance. I wouldn`t think it was advisable
to allow plaques/memorials all over the country commemorating every Tom,
Dick or Harry who dropped dead or were run over "At this spot". Can you
imagine it? Everywhere would be swamped!

Graveyards or Memorial chapels have always been the places for that sort of
thing and just because that`s been the recognised place for it for thousands
of years doesn`t make it any less in a local wood. (Preferable not yet,
though! Too much to do yet!).apt today. (As a matter of fact, gravestones
in English graveyards are a comparatively new thing, only having been used
in the last two or three hundred years).

I very much like the tree planting idea, with a small plaque. We have
several of those appearing in the lovely open space where many people walk
their dogs. John`s brother has a really nice garden seat with a memorial
plaque on it in the local public gardens, where he frequently used to sit
looking out to sea when he was alive.

As for me, I want my ashes scattered in the local wood - preferably not yet.
I still have too much stitching to do!

Pat P

Pat EAXStitch wrote:


As for me, I want my ashes scattered in the local wood - preferably not yet.
I still have too much stitching to do!

Pat P


There was a Folk group from the early 60's called The Weavers. One
member, Lee Hays, had diabetes, it eventually caused his death. He'd
been an advid gardener, and asked that his ashes be spread over his
compost pile.

I believe the joke was that he wanted his friends to eat the vegetables
grown afterwards so he could be forever part of them.

Caryn

Unless the accident occurred in a protected habitat area of an
endangered or threatened species. That's another reason these memorials
are a problem.

Dianne Lewandowski wrote:
Putting flowers on a spot to commemorate a deadly accident is not the
same as erecting crosses and paraphenalia. If you want to build a
memorial, plant daffodils (as Pat suggested was done and rejected the
idea as well). :-) At least it adds to the whole - and will last and
grow in volume through the decades. Or a similar flower, depending upon
your climate. It's even environmentally friendly.

--
Brenda
NEW to Styx, classic to the world: Big Bang Theory