VERY OT !!! RCTN member seeking religious knowledge

I thought the same thing as Dianne. I didn't know the crosses were
placed by MADD members...I thought they were placed by friends and
families of the deceased. Guess we learn something new everyday, or
is a regional thing???

take care, Linda from B.C., Canada


On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 23:07:53 GMT, Lucretia Borgia
wrote:

I really care when I see those crosses. The crosses here are placed
by MADD "Mothers Against Drunk Drivers" and there are too many for my
liking. When I see them, sometimes more than one in the same spot, I
think something very crude and it makes a mark with me.

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:26:21 -0500, Dianne Lewandowski
wrote:

As an illustration, people put up crosses on highways to draw attention
to a loved one's traffic death. Thousands (perhaps tens of thousands)
of cars pass by every day. How many do you think actually notice? And
of those who do, how many actually care? As I said, I'm probably just a
pessimist. :-)

Dianne

Linda D. wrote:
I thought the same thing as Dianne. I didn't know the crosses were
placed by MADD members...I thought they were placed by friends and
families of the deceased. Guess we learn something new everyday, or
is a regional thing???

take care, Linda from B.C., Canada


If I remember correctly, the original idea came from MADD, but it's
sort of gone on to become a generalized movement. Personally, and this
is strictly my opinion, they irritate me greatly. I do respect the
sentiment and emotion involved in them, but when you have to drive past
them daily, they become just a part of the scenery and lose any real
meaning for anyone not related, if it ever had any to begin with. With
road rage, cell phones, fast food and hundreds of other distractions,
the last thing needed is another roadside distraction. However, I do
realize I'm probably in the minority on this one.
Tegan

"Gill Murray" wrote in message
news:iz4se.13554$2K4.6259@trnddc08...
I think I would prefer to see a marker, such as Sheena talks of, rather
than the tacky looking bunches of plastic flowers and deflated balloons.
I know they were put there with all sincerity, but rain, hot weather and
time, diminishes the sadness, and tends to push me towards annoyance. It
is cary when you see several on the same stretch of road!

Gillian

The balloons, flowers etc., even the markers, when new, attract attention
from rubberneckers which would be much better focussed on the driving. A
bit like the idiots who slow down just to goggle at an accident.

Pat P

Mirjam Bruck-Cohen wrote:
With all Due respect , Watergate was a Moral trauma for many people in
Usa , but it didn`t leave Orphans or widows or Wounded people...
I thinkl you are using the Wrong comparisons. Not every `Historical`
event has the same Impact on memory.
And of course it also dependes which `side` of the event you are.
If your Family is ammongst those who lost something , you reemmber it
different than if your family was just a bystander , or belonged to
those who initaited and/or gained [ in anyway] from the event.



Watergate changed the way the American people viewed their leaders.
FOREVER!

The national fabric was altered by that one event, the media changed,
there is now a mistrust of our leaders that didn't exist before
Watergate. We stopped thinking that our leaders were heros and the
best, bravest, most honest men our country could offer us. There is
now a lot of cynicism about the sort of people who want to run the
government, a generation later it's just as evident as it was right
after the event.

Just because it didn't leave a body count behind doesn't mean that it
wasn't a very significant event in American History.

It's sad that you think only events that result in multiple deaths
count.

Caryn

Caryn , i dont know why you are always trying to misread my posts.
I know that Watergate was a milestone in the American way life ,,, Yet
Let me assure you , that even without Watergate, this would have
happened , maybe a bit slower, But mistrusting the Governing Powers`
integrity , Strated long before watergate ,,, Watergate was maybe the
Last straw that tumbled the camel over ...
And i didn`t say that only events with Multipy deaths count, i think
that Even One Death count , And I insist on making a difference
between events that Affected many people Way of life , and between
events where even One family lost their ONE beloved person ...
Yes it was sygnificant , No it did not leave traumatized orphans ,,
mirjam
The national fabric was altered by that one event, the media changed,
there is now a mistrust of our leaders that didn't exist before
Watergate. We stopped thinking that our leaders were heros and the
best, bravest, most honest men our country could offer us. There is
now a lot of cynicism about the sort of people who want to run the
government, a generation later it's just as evident as it was right
after the event.

Just because it didn't leave a body count behind doesn't mean that it
wasn't a very significant event in American History.

It's sad that you think only events that result in multiple deaths
count.

Caryn

Caryn wrote

Watergate changed the way the American people viewed their leaders.
FOREVER!

(snip)
Just because it didn't leave a body count behind doesn't mean that it
wasn't a very significant event in American History.

It's sad that you think only events that result in multiple deaths
count.

I don't think Mirjam would disagree with you that Watergate was a major
turning point in American political history. (and if I have put words in
her mouth, she is quite able to spit them out again)--but the critical word
is American. I think she was talking more events like WWII which had an
effect on much of the world, and continue to do so since those who
experienced that war live on every continent. For those of us who live in
the rest of the world, Watergate is just an interesting story of political
tactics, although at the time it did confirm the impression many of us had
of Nixon!
Dawne

"Pat EAXStitch" wrote in message
...
We have an interesting event going on at the moment relating to Virginian
History (Jamestown in particular) Apparently they have discovered what
they
think are the remains of one Bartholomew Godnold in Jamestown, and over
here
they are exhuming his sister from a nearby church with a view to taking
some
of her DNA from a tooth so it can be taken over there and compared with
the
DNA from the remains they have found.

He used to own Otley Hall, which, quite coincidentally, is my current
project I`m working on. He sailed over to Virginia in the Godspeed to set
up
one of the first settlements in Virginia. In fact he got there before the
Mayflower. I understand that Martha`s vineyard is named after his baby
daughter who died on the trip.

Also co-incidentally there is a website up only today about it
http://www.bbc.co.uk/suffolk/dont_mi.../gosnold.shtml

Another one is
http://www.suffolkhistorichouses.org...tley-hall.html They
both
have nice photos of the hall, which is a beautiful old building - John
attended a couple of conferences there some years ago, and brought back a
sketch of it which we still have in our dining-room.

The replica of his ship, the Godspeed is in Jamestown still, having
sailed
from here many years ago. John is one of their "honorary captains" for
the
assistance he gave to it and the crew when it stopped at Felixstowe!

There is a Gosnold Inn in Maine, I just discovered

Pat P

wrote in message
oups.com...


Dianne Lewandowski wrote:
Dr. Brat wrote:
I disagree, Dianne.

Call me a pessimist. :-) I think a few people get charged up about
history. But I think, in the main, the young don't connect to events
that happened beyond their intimate knowledge.

Dianne
--
"The Journal of Needlework" - The E-zine for All Needleworkers
http://journal.heritageshoppe.com]


Living as I do surrounded by historical sites from the Civil War and
Revolutionary Wars I can report that my kids actually enjoy visiting
these sites. They especially liked Mount Vernon and the Monuments in
DC (Haven't seen the WWII one yet tho).

Oldest just got a perfect score of 600/600 on her world history S.O.L.
(Standards of Learning, the Virginia statewide test which is basically
equivalent to a final exam). She wants to be an author, and enjoys
using historical events to develop her characters.

When middle daughter had her People to People trip to the UK last year
she found the historical sites interesting, she loved the Tower of
London for instance.

I can only speak for my kids, maybe it's genetic, because I love
history too, but they seem to connect with history. Perhaps all hope
is not lost for the next generation?

Caryn

It might come to them later, Caryn. I wasn`t all that wrapped up in history
when I was their age, but I`m wildly enthusiastic about it now. Not too keen
after the Stuarts, though, and I find that the 20th century holds no appeal
for me whatsoever!

Pat P

wrote:
Brenda Lewis wrote:
Isn't that stretching things a bit? Only the exceptional five-year-old
could grasp the Watergate scandal; it didn't directly impact the lives
of most children. It certainly isn't the same as living through an air
raid or having your parents killed by a suicide bomber.

Karen C - California wrote:
Mostly, you're right. There's the occasional History major who cares,
but I know several people who were age 5-10 at the time of Watergate who
seem to have no concept of what I'm talking about. And they *lived*
through it.

--
Brenda
...born in 1968, vaguely remembers hearing the name Watergate on the
TV/radio and wondering if it had something to do with Lock & Dam #16...



I was 12 and my brother was 10, when Nixon resigned. My parents were
very politically aware, and because of that I was too. News was on
during dinner every night (our living room and dining room were a
combined area). My parents expected my brother and I to ask questions
and took the time to make sure we understood the answers.

Before that, I was well aware of the Vietnam War, of people dying,
children dying during that conflict. I remember the election in 1968
when I was just 6. I remember the cover of the Weekly Reader showing
the three candidates.

I think it's a mistake to assume that all children are ignorant of
current events, of politics or other happenings in the world. Yes,
some are kept sheltered from the world, others choose not to pay
attention to the news.

I didn't go on to be a history major, I doubt that every child who
grows up aware of current events does! That doesn't mean that children
today don't have the ability to care about both history and current
events tho!

We take our kids to museums, to historical sites, but also to zoos and
movies and broadway shows on occasion. It's our responsibility to try
to raise them to be well rounded adults eventually, I can only hope
their current interest in the world continues!

Caryn
I always HATED current events in school, but LOVED history! I was born
in 1955 & only remember JFK's assassination because the Three Stooges
was pre-empted by "some boring funeral". I was aware of all of the
astronaut stuff going on when John Glenn went around the earth and then
again when the astronauts went around the moon and when Neil Armstrong
landed, but I was much more interested in coverred wagons and mountain
men. I was actually taking "American Government" in summer school the
year of Watergate & know for a fact that, while the teachers were VERY
ENTHUSIASTIC about the whole situation, most of us students were more
concerned with getting through the class so we could have an extra
blank period the following shcool year and not have to waste an entire
semester on something so boring. We all realized that something
important was going on, but didn't really care at the time.
I actually still feel the same way. I like to know what is going on in
the world, but hate the constant "news" coverage that doesn't really
give any news - just speculation on what he or she might say or do "if"
someone else says or does something else that hasn't happened yet. I
especially hate it when there is a "special announcement" that
interrupts regular programming - WHEN NOTHING IS GOING ON YET! ! !

Also, it may be because I watched lots of WWII movies as a child, as
well as shows like
"12 O'Clock High" & "Combat" on TV, but I remember seeing images of
civilians being hurt in war time. The images I remember are not of a
single/group of soldiers standing in the middle of nowhere, but of
burnt out buildings and civilians hiding in basements or barns until
the enemy had gone past. My grandfather didn't tell many stories of
WWI France but the one he did tell was of he & his friends getting in
trouble for digging up something from someone's garden because they
were hungry. Probably because it was already "history", it was much
more interesting to me than what was going on in my own country at the
time. My favorite "war" movie is still "Operation Petticoat", though;
and I still have no desire to see "Platoon" or "Saving Private Ryan"
from beginning to end. Just because I am aware that the pain &
suffering happened doesn't mean that I want to see it in living color
in my living room.
Liz from Humbug

It might come to them later, Caryn. I wasn`t all that wrapped up in history
when I was their age, but I`m wildly enthusiastic about it now. Not too keen
after the Stuarts, though, and I find that the 20th century holds no appeal
for me whatsoever!

Pat P




For today's TV generation, obsessed with music videos and video games,
my kids seem to actually enjoy learning about history and the world in
general. We live in an area that is so saturated with American
History, it's impossible to be a kid here and not be made aware of it.

Trips to Civil War battlefileds, trips into Washington DC to visit
various famous sites like the various memorials, museums, government
buildings.

We were lucky emough one year to score invitations to the White House
Christmas displays. The kids loved the Xmas decorations, but were
equally fascinated by the various presidental portraits and other
memorabilia.

Maybe it helps that they know that some of their ancestors came here
over 300 years ago too, their grandmother is into geneology, and the
girls enjoy reading thru the family trees she's made up.

Caryn

In my neck of the woods, it isn't MADD who is putting up the crosses, it
is families. The State of Wisconsin is trying to get a law through to
stop it.

Dianne

Linda D. wrote:

I thought the same thing as Dianne. I didn't know the crosses were
placed by MADD members...I thought they were placed by friends and
families of the deceased. Guess we learn something new everyday, or
is a regional thing???

take care, Linda from B.C., Canada


On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 23:07:53 GMT, Lucretia Borgia
wrote:

I really care when I see those crosses. The crosses here are placed
by MADD "Mothers Against Drunk Drivers" and there are too many for my
liking. When I see them, sometimes more than one in the same spot, I
think something very crude and it makes a mark with me.


On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:26:21 -0500, Dianne Lewandowski
wrote:


As an illustration, people put up crosses on highways to draw attention
to a loved one's traffic death. Thousands (perhaps tens of thousands)
of cars pass by every day. How many do you think actually notice? And
of those who do, how many actually care? As I said, I'm probably just a
pessimist. :-)

Dianne


--
"The Journal of Needlework" - The E-zine for All Needleworkers
http://journal.heritageshoppe.com