Basic wheel throwing question - centering

In article t, Jan
Clauson writes

I've been doing this for about 20 years and still have trouble
centering. I have had marvelous teachers. Everyone around me was
throwing beautiful pots. All I ever seemed to throw was clay. The
wheels in the classroom were in groups of four. The group I sat with
put me next to the wall so that when the clay flew off my bat it would
hit the wall and not one of their pots! Fortunately, I prefer to
hand-build and sculpt.

After many years on my own and practicing by miself in my garage, I
finally realized that I was trying too hard. I was trying to muscle the
clay into place. The middle part of the clay is always centered. All
you have to do is arrange the outer layers around that center. I backed
off the strength moves and am now centering much better.

I'll probably never be very good with the wheel, but I couldn't bear to
give up until I had learned this basic skill.

Since my classroom days, I have learned to meditate and I find that
putting myself into the same relaxed mode I use for meditation helps
enormously.

Good luck,

Jan C.

If you find yourself getting uptight while working, don't stop the
wheel, sit up, let your hands hang relaxed, and think about them
touching the floor. Your shoulders will drop and all the tension will
leave you. Takes only a few seconds, but it works.
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK

Thanks, Steve.

Jan C.

Steve Mills wrote in news:6lL5BtAFweg
:

In article t, Jan
Clauson writes

I've been doing this for about 20 years and still have trouble

Here is my tuppence worth.

I started off the year in a class of experienced throwers and I was
absolutley hopeless.

My tutor was a wel known kiwi potter by the name of John Parker who
throws sculptural type pots in a dense white stoneware clay called Nelson
White.His pots are then glazed with either a clear glaze or a white
glaze. He terms this white on white.

Well anyway this white clay is a b..... to centre and to throw and needs
to be well wedged. (The theory was if you could work with this clay you
could work with anything)

I got to centre eventually but about 5 kilos is the limit.

What he taught was to triangulate (this has been covered in ealier posts)
ie bcaing the elbows against the you body so a firm constant pressure can
be applied. The other big lesson was to centre at a high speed.

Once I finished his classes I tried out another clay. Whacked 3 kilos on
the wheel head, just touched it slightly and it centred.

The point to all this is

1 Make sure your clay is well wedged

2 Pat your clay into a cone before you put it on the wheel.

3 Brace your arms

4 Spin the wheel at a high speed

5 There is nothing stopping you holding a wooden rib against the clay to
help trim the ouside of the spinning lump and to help centre it. (If you
go to the Axner website you will see that the produce a centering tool,
which is only a steel plate on an arm which is pressed up against the
spinning clay. This shows you that you only need apply the pressure from
one side)

6 It is quite possible that the clay you are using is unsuitable for a
beginner.(As is the white clay I was using) Try some other clays.

7 You need to practice and practice some more. Make up 20 2 lb balls of
clay at a time and centre and throw cylinders one after another, and then
re-cycle the clay. As beginners, all our first efforts are precious and
we want to keep them. However you need to get over this and dump them
all.

Beginners make bowls because they are easy to make as that is the way the
clay naturally wants to go. Throw cylinders. They are more difficult as
you need to control the clay, but the cylinder forms the base shape of
most of the pots we make, including bowls.

You will really notice the improvement and you will wonder what you used
to worry about. You can then transfer your worries onto the thickness of
the base and how high you can lift the clay, and then worry about the
drying, bisque firing, warping and cracking, then glazing and then the
final firing. Thats why we all look old before our time.

8 Earlier on this year I attended a two day workshop taken by Jeff
Oestreich. He re-counted an apprenticeship that he did a million years
ago at the Bernard Leach Pottery in St Ives. Every day he would come to
the pottery and throw goodness knows how many forms a day. At the end of
the day they were all dumped into the recycle bin. I can't remember if he
said this happened for six months or a year. The point is you need to
practice and take no notice of what the others in your class are doing.


Have fun

John W

..

Since your instructor seems a bit reluctant in showing you the fine
points of centering and throwing I suggest that you watch and pay
attention to the other members of the class as they center and throw,
and ask them to talk out loud about their technique while they are
centering and throwing.

I'm sure most potters will agree that the prerequisite to decent
throwing is centering. You can't throw a good pot out of clay that
isn't well centered.

Patting the round ball of clay into a cone on the wheel head while the
wheel is turning slowly helps to both attach it securely to the head,
and to center it.

Bracing the elbow of the left arm into the hip and holding steadily to
the side of the clay.

When pushing the clay on the wheel sneak up to it gradually, and also
release pressure slowly not abruptly which will throw the clay off
center.

Although I don't necessarily agree that clay is alive, "close your
cellar door at night, the clay is creeping up the stairs", it does
have a memory.

For starters you can also hold a wet sponge in your right hand and
squeeze out water as you press on the clay to center. This assures
you will have enough water.


Steve Mills wrote in message ...
In article t, Jan
Clauson writes

I've been doing this for about 20 years and still have trouble
centering. I have had marvelous teachers. Everyone around me was
throwing beautiful pots. All I ever seemed to throw was clay. The
wheels in the classroom were in groups of four. The group I sat with
put me next to the wall so that when the clay flew off my bat it would
hit the wall and not one of their pots! Fortunately, I prefer to
hand-build and sculpt.

After many years on my own and practicing by miself in my garage, I
finally realized that I was trying too hard. I was trying to muscle the
clay into place. The middle part of the clay is always centered. All
you have to do is arrange the outer layers around that center. I backed
off the strength moves and am now centering much better.

I'll probably never be very good with the wheel, but I couldn't bear to
give up until I had learned this basic skill.

Since my classroom days, I have learned to meditate and I find that
putting myself into the same relaxed mode I use for meditation helps
enormously.

Good luck,

Jan C.

If you find yourself getting uptight while working, don't stop the
wheel, sit up, let your hands hang relaxed, and think about them
touching the floor. Your shoulders will drop and all the tension will
leave you. Takes only a few seconds, but it works.

"Uncle John" wrote in message
...
Steve Mills wrote in news:6lL5BtAFweg
:

In article t, Jan
Clauson writes

I've been doing this for about 20 years and still have trouble

Here is my tuppence worth.

I started off the year in a class of experienced throwers and I was
absolutley hopeless.

My tutor was a wel known kiwi potter by the name of John Parker who
throws sculptural type pots in a dense white stoneware clay called Nelson
White.His pots are then glazed with either a clear glaze or a white
glaze. He terms this white on white.

Watched a video of him throwing and turning at an exhibition of his work one
time. Interesting. I do not find Nelson white too bad, but I choose mostly
to work in Mac's white which is fairly similar really. I don't find it more
difficult to centre, though it has less tooth than some other clays when you
lift it. Easier to collapse with wide bowls.


Well anyway this white clay is a b..... to centre and to throw and needs
to be well wedged. (The theory was if you could work with this clay you
could work with anything)

I got to centre eventually but about 5 kilos is the limit.

What he taught was to triangulate (this has been covered in ealier posts)
ie bcaing the elbows against the you body so a firm constant pressure can
be applied. The other big lesson was to centre at a high speed.

Once I finished his classes I tried out another clay. Whacked 3 kilos on
the wheel head, just touched it slightly and it centred.

The point to all this is

1 Make sure your clay is well wedged

2 Pat your clay into a cone before you put it on the wheel.

3 Brace your arms

4 Spin the wheel at a high speed

5 There is nothing stopping you holding a wooden rib against the clay to
help trim the ouside of the spinning lump and to help centre it. (If you
go to the Axner website you will see that the produce a centering tool,
which is only a steel plate on an arm which is pressed up against the
spinning clay. This shows you that you only need apply the pressure from
one side)

6 It is quite possible that the clay you are using is unsuitable for a
beginner.(As is the white clay I was using) Try some other clays.

7 You need to practice and practice some more. Make up 20 2 lb balls of
clay at a time and centre and throw cylinders one after another, and then
re-cycle the clay. As beginners, all our first efforts are precious and
we want to keep them. However you need to get over this and dump them
all.

Beginners make bowls because they are easy to make as that is the way the
clay naturally wants to go. Throw cylinders. They are more difficult as
you need to control the clay, but the cylinder forms the base shape of
most of the pots we make, including bowls.

Yes I always start people on cylinders and they do form the base skill
required, but when opening your centred clay, the opening for a bowl must be
curved and the opening for a cylinder flat. Flat bottomed bowls are not
attractive.
Cheers
Annemarie

If I may add to Uncle John's excellent post:

Work with soft clay; clay you can shape easily. Clay that is too hard
for you, personally, (we are ALL different) is a hiding to nothing and
will knock your confidence for six.

Steve
Bath
UK


In article , Uncle John
writes

Here is my tuppence worth.

I started off the year in a class of experienced throwers and I was
absolutley hopeless.

My tutor was a wel known kiwi potter by the name of John Parker who
throws sculptural type pots in a dense white stoneware clay called Nelson
White.His pots are then glazed with either a clear glaze or a white
glaze. He terms this white on white.

Well anyway this white clay is a b..... to centre and to throw and needs
to be well wedged. (The theory was if you could work with this clay you
could work with anything)

I got to centre eventually but about 5 kilos is the limit.

What he taught was to triangulate (this has been covered in ealier posts)
ie bcaing the elbows against the you body so a firm constant pressure can
be applied. The other big lesson was to centre at a high speed.

Once I finished his classes I tried out another clay. Whacked 3 kilos on
the wheel head, just touched it slightly and it centred.

The point to all this is

1 Make sure your clay is well wedged

2 Pat your clay into a cone before you put it on the wheel.

3 Brace your arms

4 Spin the wheel at a high speed

5 There is nothing stopping you holding a wooden rib against the clay to
help trim the ouside of the spinning lump and to help centre it. (If you
go to the Axner website you will see that the produce a centering tool,
which is only a steel plate on an arm which is pressed up against the
spinning clay. This shows you that you only need apply the pressure from
one side)

6 It is quite possible that the clay you are using is unsuitable for a
beginner.(As is the white clay I was using) Try some other clays.

7 You need to practice and practice some more. Make up 20 2 lb balls of
clay at a time and centre and throw cylinders one after another, and then
re-cycle the clay. As beginners, all our first efforts are precious and
we want to keep them. However you need to get over this and dump them
all.

Beginners make bowls because they are easy to make as that is the way the
clay naturally wants to go. Throw cylinders. They are more difficult as
you need to control the clay, but the cylinder forms the base shape of
most of the pots we make, including bowls.

You will really notice the improvement and you will wonder what you used
to worry about. You can then transfer your worries onto the thickness of
the base and how high you can lift the clay, and then worry about the
drying, bisque firing, warping and cracking, then glazing and then the
final firing. Thats why we all look old before our time.

8 Earlier on this year I attended a two day workshop taken by Jeff
Oestreich. He re-counted an apprenticeship that he did a million years
ago at the Bernard Leach Pottery in St Ives. Every day he would come to
the pottery and throw goodness knows how many forms a day. At the end of
the day they were all dumped into the recycle bin. I can't remember if he
said this happened for six months or a year. The point is you need to
practice and take no notice of what the others in your class are doing.


Have fun

John W

.





--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK

I am also taking a beginners pottery class. So I read all the centering
posts here with interest.
I am not an artist, but a machinist so when I had trouble centering I
started to think about what the process of centering does. When you pull
(or push) the clay toward the center the clay can only basically go in two
directions. As you pull the clay toward the center it has to smooth into a
circle and or go up. The clay can't go out unless you press it down from the
top. So to center it, you must pull the clay toward the center and hold it
steady long enough for it to smooth into a circle. If it rises to much you
need to push it back down and start again. Watch the other potters to see
how they do this. Start with soft clay to get the hang of it.
Good luck,
Pete

"Elric" wrote in message
om...
Hello.

I'm taking a Beginner Wheel Throwing Class at a local studio, but it
turns out I'm the only beginner there, and after about 15 minutes of
demonstration, the instructor cut us loose. In the two hour class,
everyone made 3 or 4 bowls apiece, and I could barely get the clay to
center on the wheel. A couple of times I tried to get it to "cone up"
- I think that's where you bring the clay up into a cylinder - and at
that point it would usually break off the wheel.

My instructor's getting really impatient with me, I think he wants me
to ask him more specific questions, and I've never done this before,
I'm not sure what to ask. I can tell you this: when I'm trying to
center, most of the clay comes off in my hands or gets on the wheel,
but the lump of clay acutally on the wheel doesn't really center at
all.

I wet my hands constantly, and yet the clay on the wheel seems almost
constantly dry.

Anyway, when I asked the instructor how to practice on my own (I don't
want to get behind in the class, and I guess I'm already four bowls
behind), he said, "centering," but I'm not even sure how to go about
that. I am going to try to practice before the next class no matter
what, I'm just writing here asking for suggestions so I don't waste
too much time and clay when I go in for my practice time.

Also, my instructor kept switching hands on me - honestly, I think he
said the left hand holds the clay to the side and the right hand
pushes it down - this got me absolutely nowhere, and then I noticed
the other people in class were doing the opposite... anyway, as you
can see, I'm completely and totally confused.

I still want to learn, though. I won't drop the class, even if it
really is much more advanced than I thought.

Any advice you all could give me would be most helpful.

Thanks,
Heather