I'm now at liberty to dish!

Elizabeth ,,,,,,
Why should I change my .sig? Telling someone that someone else doesn't
like her does nothing to illuminate possibilities. It's not the kind
thing to do at all.

What a bitch you are, Mirjam!
Elizabeth
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate
and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
I always learned, believed , experienced , that knowing all the facts
gave me the Real sense of all the possibilities. ! knowing other
people`s real /true opinions , might make a big difference when
evaluating possibilities. thus why advice , something you don`t
believe in ?
Ps interesting choice of curse , for someone who a few years ago,
proudly put her City`s name {Salem] on her sigline.
I could use your terminology and suggest a lot of ideas to you , but i
don`t . I stopped being surprised by your Curses and other rude and
double standard writing. i have tried and tried to be colleagual with
you ,,, only to get more and more of your "joining or even leading
Flame wars , against me , my country etc,,,
hence i found it sort of comic/sad that while leading a witch hunt on
me you put this sig with you city`s name on it.
But for some reason, you insist on thinking that there is some
significance to the fact that I live in Salem. That says far more about
you, Mirjam, than it does about me, as does the fact that you repeatedly
refer to a fact about me that I have chosen to drop from public view.
If I had a good reason to hide my place of residence, that would mean
nothing to you, would it?
???????????????????
It's not about hiding behind people's backs. It's about engaging in
proper nettiquette.
But it is Nettiquette to repeatedly attack one person
In this particular case, it was a transparently manipulative move on
your part to gain support by cross-posting to a group where you are more
popular than you are here in an attempt to gain support for your
position. I see no reason to follow your bad example.
i have explained why i did it . You as usual keep your double
standards.
mirjam

Thank you Sonya = Knitting expert , i have learned so much from you
expertise , and the very clear explainations , you write so well .
And enjoy when we discuss various methods to do our crafts.
mirjam
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 17:38:10 -0500, Sonya Cirillo
wrote:

Well some of us don't bother reading RCTN, let lone post there anymore.
Why? Well originally, my newsgroup provider had a bad hair day or
something - and I couldn't get into RCTN - than I noticed I wasn't
missing the back stabbing and rants and name-calling (which seemed to be
more than 50% of the traffic - most of the time). I do miss some people
from there and there was some interesting threads that I learned from,
but over all it's much nicer being with folks that can agree to disagree
and don't *constantly* go out of their way to start fights or make other
people feel bad.

So don't worry - as you've seen by now - us 'other' people DON'T CARE
what others say - Mirjam is welcome over here - as is anyone else who
wants to 'play' nicely - if you don't, than you are quickly (and
politely) ignored!!!!

Sonya Cirillo

And you keep it going by telling people they're Nazi supporters. Get a
grip, get a life, go light some Shabbat candles and remember that you're not
the only Jew floating around here.

Isabel

"Mirjam Bruck-Cohen" wrote in message
...
Playing Michele ? who is playing ? i come here to speak/read about
NEEDLEWORK + THREADS subjects,,,,, strangely enough whenever i try to
do it , somebody here comes up with needless + threats subjects .
mirjam
On 14 Jan 2004 11:50:55 GMT, (minman9900) wrote:

Cher wrote:

From now on Mirjam, stick with us.

Please, Mirjam, go play with the friend's that appreciate you. I, for
one, am
tired of the games you play here.

Michele

Oh sorry i didn` notice i just answered your letter
mirjam
On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:25:46 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:50:03 GMT, (Mirjam
Bruck-Cohen) wrote:

Mirjam - you are STILL cross posting ! Methinks you do protest too
much. As usual.

Sheena

Isabel , i have never seen myself as a floating person , let alone a
floating Jew . i see myself as a Jewess standing well and firmly on
many of my Cultural grounds ...
Memorial candles are part of it as well .....and the in the last year
i have lit those , to people who nobody else remembered.
And Just for You Isabel i will try and translate a poem by Rachel a
poet who lived here
RACHEL
Indeed, her blood streams in mine .
Indeed , her voice chants in me-
Rachel sheperding Laban`s flocks ,
Rachel -the mothers` mother ,

And thus the house is too narrrow
The city -strange ,
As her scarf would flutter,
in the desert winds.

And thus i can hold my way
in such assurance ,
as my feet carry memories
since then , since thus.

taw,resh, pe, Waw= 5676

mirjam

(Mirjam Bruck-Cohen) wrote in message ...
When anyone writes bad things about the other NG , it has a lot to do
with that other NG
It's considered very bad netiquette and only causes trouble.
Aha , and Foul speaking about another NG is Accepted ? and has to be
overlooked ?????

That's your opinion, not a statement of fact. Other people would
say that you were just stirring up **** -- yes, that's the American
expression -- for the fun of it. You wouldn't brawl like this,
pretending to be defending the truth, if it didn't do something for
you. So you got your friends to see that other mean people were
picking on you -- but, of course, conveniently forgot to mention
that you told another Jew that she was a Nazi sympathizer.

This latest brouhaha started when Mirjam told another Jewish woman,
The latest war strated when i refused to praise Animaux , behaviour
which she herself called a fib , and suggested to her that the whole
matter , she lied about ,, could have been solved , had she done what
mature people do , sign a paper about the business.

And you could have confined your comments to Victoria....

Roberta, who also lost relatives in the
Holocaust that she was part of the Nazi plan to rid the world of Jews.
You better read again , and understand what i said. i will repeat here
that by stopping Talking about it ,or saying ", Go on with life, and
forget about it ," one ends the work started by the nazis , wiping not
only the Jewish people but also our culture and memory off the globus.

No, I did read what you wrote. Roberta said that talking about it
constantly, particularly in a stitching ng, was a waste. Better to
react by living life and moving forward. You have no idea -- and
neither do I -- whether she and other Jews are political activists
in other areas or how they carry and deal with their own family
losses. That you would call me a disgusting hypocrite for just
daring to talk to you is par for the course; that you would denigrate
other Jews who are survivors as basically not being Jews to your
liking is mind boggling.

For some odd reason Roberta took offense to this. Then Mirjam explained to her
at length that her suffering didn't compare to hers
I never wrote this , i explained that for Roberta , it happened to her
family, while i am carrying some of results , with me everyday , thus
it is a bit hard for me to Forget. i never neasured nore compared
suffering.
then demanded an apology from her! If you don't believe me, go ahead
this is a real distortion of the facts ,,,,Roberta adviced to go back
to needlework writing , thus i asked her to tell about her needlework
, to which Ruby , suggested that Should 'apologize in public to
Roberta,,,,,to which i wondered why she didn`t suggest that Roberta
apologizes to me ,,,, since i for one do not understand , how a
discussion about Animaux`s fibs , turns into an attack, on me.

That's the whole point, Miryam: you never do understand. And everyone
is sick and tired of trying to explain what should be plain: you are
responsible for everything you write, and for your part of every
thread you get involved in, just as I am responsible for what I write.
No one forces you into it, and pretending that you are just trying to
talk stitching and then are compelled to call people names, or
correct them, or explain for the millionth time that you are different
(guess what? We are all different, duh) is you just choosing to go
off track again and than blame others. "I had to speak up!" "I had
to cross post!" "Roberta should apologize to me because I just had
to call her a Nazi sympathizer!" No, you didn't; you chose to because
you often write in heat and then expect other people to give you
a pass on it because you are Miryam and are a HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR and
can't be expected to act like a normal adult. That's what Roberta was
saying, and I am more than willing to be corrected by her if I got it
wrong. No matter what suffering your family endured, you are
responsible
for yourself, and you carry their memory much better by being an
upstanding person than by complaining that other people don't
understand you.

You are not the only Jew in the world. You are not
the only person who endures physical and mental suffering. You are
not the only person who has has to endure prejudice. You are not the
only person to have suffered deep loss. But you *are* the only
person around here who seems to think that her own family history
excuses her from having to treat other people with respect, from
agreeing to disagree, and from apologizing when you are wrong. There
are people here who are at their lowest point in life, who can
barely hold a needle to stitch, who are tormented by the past -- and
they are still reaching out to say a kind word to someone else. They
just don't go on and on like you do. If you can be so well-loved in
other ngs, why can't you get the same reaction here?

Lynne

I did chuckle a bit!
Off to the deep freeze and wait for DD bus!
C

On 1/15/04 8:57 AM, in article ,
"animaux" wrote:

Oh words! Damn them!

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 22:15:54 GMT, Cheryl Isaak
opined:

Victoria,
We both seek discourse. We both want to avoid discord!
LOL!
Cheryl

On 1/14/04 5:06 PM, in article ,
"animaux" wrote:

Ya know, the very interesting thing about this thread I started, is that
indeed
an online shop now DOES stock them as a result of this post.
www.heritageshoppe.com should be selling the laying tools any day now.

So, what started out to be a very remorseful lie, came true.

So, everyone ignore anyone who loves to seek out discourse. I shouldn't
have
lied. That's the fact. I'm far from perfect, and I'm still Buddhist.
Glory
be.

Victoria

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 04:12:21 GMT, "Dr. Brat" opined:

And you felt the need to cross post this, exactly why? The only thing
worse than one who insults me when I am not there is the one who rushes
to tell me what I would not have otherwise heard.

What a bitch you are, Mirjam!

Elizabeth

Mirjam Bruck-Cohen wrote:
Good morning Seannete , what a `delightful` post you wrote ,
Yes i do read and write with enormous pleasure the wonderful group of
RCTY , where lovely creative people share their creative thoughts as
well as helping each other with knitting, crochet and weaving
questions. This RCTY members are an inspirational , supportive group,
i want and need to apologize to RCTY members , because of your rude
remark, Becuase you have to drag other people into your `witch hunt`
remarks about me. If you have this Urgent need to be offensive ,
please say it to me and about me , but don`t throw your words in all
directions , and do not insult other people. ngs as well .
mirjam
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:47:18 -0800, Seanette Blaylock
wrote:


"Roberta" had some very interesting things
to say about I'm now at liberty to dish!:


Until then, you're going the way you've gone with so many other people
here--straight into the trash. It's RCTN, not RCTMB-C.

That would be the group officially known as RCTY [theoretically about
yarn].
--
"The universe is quite robust in design and appears to be
doing just fine on its own, incompetent support staff notwithstanding.
:-)" - the Dennis formerly known as (evil), MCFL

A personal disclaimer, - this isn't my post, my style, my words or my
sentiments - it's from someone on RCTN. I occasionally do the
"stabbing-needle arts", (LOVE that phrase, Helen!) so I occasionally check
out the messages that purport to be about needlecraft, but I haven't been
keeping up with that bunch over there. They don't play nice.

Just covering my ass, which is sometimes difficult, as wide as it is, LOL!

- Lynne D.

"Mirjam Bruck-Cohen" wrote in message
...
OHHHH LYNNE , i never said that she was a Nazi sympathizer,
please go back and read what and how i wrote .. But if my words aren`t
clear enough i can quote , many a person . distorting my words won`t
change the basic fact , I don`t have to quote many a scholar , from
Elie Wiesel , to Primo Levy to so many others. All wrote we have to
talk and write about it.
That's your opinion, not a statement of fact. Other people would
say that you were just stirring up **** -- yes, that's the American
expression -- for the fun of it. You wouldn't brawl like this,
pretending to be defending the truth, if it didn't do something for
you. So you got your friends to see that other mean people were
picking on you -- but, of course, conveniently forgot to mention
that you told another Jew that she was a Nazi sympathizer.
And you could have confined your comments to Victoria....
I confined my comments to Victoria, other people brought in the Other
Subject , of Holocaust , not me , i just answered .
No, I did read what you wrote. Roberta said that talking about it
Don`t be ridiculous , i am not talking about it i am always reacting
about it.
constantly, particularly in a stitching ng, was a waste. Better to
react by living life and moving forward.
That is what i am doing ....and if you don`t understand ask me in
private .
You have no idea -- and
neither do I -- whether she and other Jews are political activists
in other areas or how they carry and deal with their own family
losses.
No i do not , and i never spoke about that , i reacted about her
attacking me . and that was that ,
That you would call me a disgusting hypocrite for just
daring to talk to you is par for the course; that you would denigrate
other Jews who are survivors as basically not being Jews to your
liking is mind boggling.
Excuse me when i did i call you disgusting ? maybe i wrote that you
were reacting in a hypocritical way ,,,, if i did i felt it was such a
behaviour . As to me saying such thing about other Jews ????? never
did i do such a thing , i might disagree with people , about their
views, etc..


That's the whole point, Miryam: you never do understand. And everyone
is sick and tired of trying to explain what should be plain: you are
responsible for everything you write,
of coiurse i am responsible of waht i write , but pray tell my why
when i write to Victoria about her post, somebody has to pull the
Holocaust into this discussion , and it is not ME
"Roberta should apologize to me because I just had
to call her a Nazi sympathizer!"
I never wrote such words!!!!! you are fabricating this!!!!
And yes i chose to cross post what i felt was needed.
other people to give you
a pass on it because you are Miryam
maybe because in am not miyam but mirjam, i never ever in my life
asked anybody to give me a pass, i work hard and respectfully for
everything. And it is my mature understanding that i use as guide , it
is from my mature study and experience that i write my conclusions ,
and wonder upon wonder , i am not the only one who thinks this. .

for yourself, and you carry their memory much better by being an
upstanding person than by complaining that other people don't
understand you.
That is just it i do understand, and do my best to understand more ,
You are not the only Jew in the world. You are not
the only person who endures physical and mental suffering. You are
not the only person who has has to endure prejudice. You are not the
only person to have suffered deep loss. But you *are* the only
person around here who seems to think that her own family history
excuses her from having to treat other people with respect,
All the above is one big fictious story ,,,,, but you want to believe
that ,,,,what can i do ., nothing will change your opinion . you are
welcome to it .
agreeing to disagree, and from apologizing when you are wrong. There
are people here who are at their lowest point in life, who can
barely hold a needle to stitch, who are tormented by the past -- and
they are still reaching out to say a kind word to someone else. They
just don't go on and on like you do. If you can be so well-loved in
other ngs, why can't you get the same reaction here?
AHA the last question is the good one ,,,,,, ASK yourself this
question not me ,,since you are the one making up stories ,attacking
every woird i say . Sometimes when i am only lurking , nasty hints are
thrown at my name ,,,,
Ask yourself ,,, why i never have problems elsewhere, ask yourself why
this group is known ALLover for the fights and wars. Don`t blame it on
me , it is so easy ,,,
good night to you. ,,,
mirjam

Whoops, it seems I inadventently cross-posted.

I apologize to everyone.

- Lynne D.

"Lynne" wrote in message
...
A personal disclaimer, - this isn't my post, my style, my words or my
sentiments - it's from someone on RCTN. I occasionally do the
"stabbing-needle arts", (LOVE that phrase, Helen!) so I occasionally check
out the messages that purport to be about needlecraft, but I haven't been
keeping up with that bunch over there. They don't play nice.

Just covering my ass, which is sometimes difficult, as wide as it is, LOL!

- Lynne D.

"Mirjam Bruck-Cohen" wrote in message
...
OHHHH LYNNE , i never said that she was a Nazi sympathizer,
please go back and read what and how i wrote .. But if my words aren`t
clear enough i can quote , many a person . distorting my words won`t
change the basic fact , I don`t have to quote many a scholar , from
Elie Wiesel , to Primo Levy to so many others. All wrote we have to
talk and write about it.
That's your opinion, not a statement of fact. Other people would
say that you were just stirring up **** -- yes, that's the American
expression -- for the fun of it. You wouldn't brawl like this,
pretending to be defending the truth, if it didn't do something for
you. So you got your friends to see that other mean people were
picking on you -- but, of course, conveniently forgot to mention
that you told another Jew that she was a Nazi sympathizer.
And you could have confined your comments to Victoria....
I confined my comments to Victoria, other people brought in the Other
Subject , of Holocaust , not me , i just answered .
No, I did read what you wrote. Roberta said that talking about it
Don`t be ridiculous , i am not talking about it i am always reacting
about it.
constantly, particularly in a stitching ng, was a waste. Better to
react by living life and moving forward.
That is what i am doing ....and if you don`t understand ask me in
private .
You have no idea -- and
neither do I -- whether she and other Jews are political activists
in other areas or how they carry and deal with their own family
losses.
No i do not , and i never spoke about that , i reacted about her
attacking me . and that was that ,
That you would call me a disgusting hypocrite for just
daring to talk to you is par for the course; that you would denigrate
other Jews who are survivors as basically not being Jews to your
liking is mind boggling.
Excuse me when i did i call you disgusting ? maybe i wrote that you
were reacting in a hypocritical way ,,,, if i did i felt it was such a
behaviour . As to me saying such thing about other Jews ????? never
did i do such a thing , i might disagree with people , about their
views, etc..


That's the whole point, Miryam: you never do understand. And everyone
is sick and tired of trying to explain what should be plain: you are
responsible for everything you write,
of coiurse i am responsible of waht i write , but pray tell my why
when i write to Victoria about her post, somebody has to pull the
Holocaust into this discussion , and it is not ME
"Roberta should apologize to me because I just had
to call her a Nazi sympathizer!"
I never wrote such words!!!!! you are fabricating this!!!!
And yes i chose to cross post what i felt was needed.
other people to give you
a pass on it because you are Miryam
maybe because in am not miyam but mirjam, i never ever in my life
asked anybody to give me a pass, i work hard and respectfully for
everything. And it is my mature understanding that i use as guide , it
is from my mature study and experience that i write my conclusions ,
and wonder upon wonder , i am not the only one who thinks this. .

for yourself, and you carry their memory much better by being an
upstanding person than by complaining that other people don't
understand you.
That is just it i do understand, and do my best to understand more ,
You are not the only Jew in the world. You are not
the only person who endures physical and mental suffering. You are
not the only person who has has to endure prejudice. You are not the
only person to have suffered deep loss. But you *are* the only
person around here who seems to think that her own family history
excuses her from having to treat other people with respect,
All the above is one big fictious story ,,,,, but you want to believe
that ,,,,what can i do ., nothing will change your opinion . you are
welcome to it .
agreeing to disagree, and from apologizing when you are wrong. There
are people here who are at their lowest point in life, who can
barely hold a needle to stitch, who are tormented by the past -- and
they are still reaching out to say a kind word to someone else. They
just don't go on and on like you do. If you can be so well-loved in
other ngs, why can't you get the same reaction here?
AHA the last question is the good one ,,,,,, ASK yourself this
question not me ,,since you are the one making up stories ,attacking
every woird i say . Sometimes when i am only lurking , nasty hints are
thrown at my name ,,,,
Ask yourself ,,, why i never have problems elsewhere, ask yourself why
this group is known ALLover for the fights and wars. Don`t blame it on
me , it is so easy ,,,
good night to you. ,,,
mirjam

OHHHH LYNNE , i never said that she was a Nazi sympathizer,
please go back and read what and how i wrote .. But if my words aren`t
clear enough i can quote , many a person . distorting my words won`t
change the basic fact , I don`t have to quote many a scholar , from
Elie Wiesel , to Primo Levy to so many others. All wrote we have to
talk and write about it.
That's your opinion, not a statement of fact. Other people would
say that you were just stirring up **** -- yes, that's the American
expression -- for the fun of it. You wouldn't brawl like this,
pretending to be defending the truth, if it didn't do something for
you. So you got your friends to see that other mean people were
picking on you -- but, of course, conveniently forgot to mention
that you told another Jew that she was a Nazi sympathizer.
And you could have confined your comments to Victoria....
I confined my comments to Victoria, other people brought in the Other
Subject , of Holocaust , not me , i just answered .
No, I did read what you wrote. Roberta said that talking about it
Don`t be ridiculous , i am not talking about it i am always reacting
about it.
constantly, particularly in a stitching ng, was a waste. Better to
react by living life and moving forward.
That is what i am doing ....and if you don`t understand ask me in
private .
You have no idea -- and
neither do I -- whether she and other Jews are political activists
in other areas or how they carry and deal with their own family
losses.
No i do not , and i never spoke about that , i reacted about her
attacking me . and that was that ,
That you would call me a disgusting hypocrite for just
daring to talk to you is par for the course; that you would denigrate
other Jews who are survivors as basically not being Jews to your
liking is mind boggling.
Excuse me when i did i call you disgusting ? maybe i wrote that you
were reacting in a hypocritical way ,,,, if i did i felt it was such a
behaviour . As to me saying such thing about other Jews ????? never
did i do such a thing , i might disagree with people , about their
views, etc..


That's the whole point, Miryam: you never do understand. And everyone
is sick and tired of trying to explain what should be plain: you are
responsible for everything you write,
of coiurse i am responsible of waht i write , but pray tell my why
when i write to Victoria about her post, somebody has to pull the
Holocaust into this discussion , and it is not ME
"Roberta should apologize to me because I just had
to call her a Nazi sympathizer!"
I never wrote such words!!!!! you are fabricating this!!!!
And yes i chose to cross post what i felt was needed.
other people to give you
a pass on it because you are Miryam
maybe because in am not miyam but mirjam, i never ever in my life
asked anybody to give me a pass, i work hard and respectfully for
everything. And it is my mature understanding that i use as guide , it
is from my mature study and experience that i write my conclusions ,
and wonder upon wonder , i am not the only one who thinks this. .

for yourself, and you carry their memory much better by being an
upstanding person than by complaining that other people don't
understand you.
That is just it i do understand, and do my best to understand more ,
You are not the only Jew in the world. You are not
the only person who endures physical and mental suffering. You are
not the only person who has has to endure prejudice. You are not the
only person to have suffered deep loss. But you *are* the only
person around here who seems to think that her own family history
excuses her from having to treat other people with respect,
All the above is one big fictious story ,,,,, but you want to believe
that ,,,,what can i do ., nothing will change your opinion . you are
welcome to it .
agreeing to disagree, and from apologizing when you are wrong. There
are people here who are at their lowest point in life, who can
barely hold a needle to stitch, who are tormented by the past -- and
they are still reaching out to say a kind word to someone else. They
just don't go on and on like you do. If you can be so well-loved in
other ngs, why can't you get the same reaction here?
AHA the last question is the good one ,,,,,, ASK yourself this
question not me ,,since you are the one making up stories ,attacking
every woird i say . Sometimes when i am only lurking , nasty hints are
thrown at my name ,,,,
Ask yourself ,,, why i never have problems elsewhere, ask yourself why
this group is known ALLover for the fights and wars. Don`t blame it on
me , it is so easy ,,,
good night to you. ,,,
mirjam