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sinusoidal stake source?



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 22nd 07, 04:36 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Georgia[_2_]
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Posts: 30
Default sinusoidal stake source?

I was surprised and disappointed to find, on Googling "sinusoidal stake," to
find only a handful of sources--Otto Frei, Walsh (all the way in the UK),
and Allcraft. Am I missing something obvious here?

Georgia
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  #2  
Old August 22nd 07, 04:50 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Peter W.. Rowe,
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Posts: 355
Default sinusoidal stake source?

On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 20:36:02 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry "Georgia"
wrote:

I was surprised and disappointed to find, on Googling "sinusoidal stake," to
find only a handful of sources--Otto Frei, Walsh (all the way in the UK),
and Allcraft. Am I missing something obvious here?


Sinusoidal stakes, used mostly for anticlastic raising, are not a traditional
item found from traditional manufacturers. Keep in mind that the things were
pretty much devised by Michael Good, and for the most part, the demand for them
was originally limited to mostly the students who'd taken his workshops. It's
grown since then, but so far as I know, the ones available are still all being
pretty much custom made for the dealers who wish to carry them. Part of this
may also be that they're fairly easy to make on one's own if you've got a decent
torch capable of heating a steel tapered drift punch hot enough to bend. Usable
punches are easily found in automotive supply tools, or you can shape a bezel
mandrel or ring mandrel the same way. Your list is a little incomplete,
though, since Bill Fretz has added a miniature sinusoidal stake to his line of
miniature raising stakes, and these are carried by several dealers, including
Rio Grande and Gesswein.

Just for curiosity sake, though, why do you need more than this handfull of
sources? It's not like you're going to find and compare many different styles
or manufacturers... Take the handful you've found, pick the one you like best,
and order what you need. Done deal. Better, I'd think, than being faced with
40 pages of Googled sources and never being sure you've found the right and best
source among the thousands.... (grin). Just be glad there IS a source or
two, if you want, so you're not forced to make your own if you want one...
(though like I said, they're not hard to make. If you've got a decent
oxy/acetylene welding torch around, or something equally aggressive, you can
make one of those stakes from a drift punch in ten or fifteen minutes of
shaping, plus some time to repolish the thing...

Peter
  #3  
Old August 22nd 07, 04:14 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
William Black
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 77
Default sinusoidal stake source?


"Georgia" wrote in message
...
I was surprised and disappointed to find, on Googling "sinusoidal stake,"
to
find only a handful of sources--Otto Frei, Walsh (all the way in the UK),
and Allcraft. Am I missing something obvious here?


1. Walsh's sell mainly German stakes.

2. They're a specialist 'detail engineering' supplier as well as a
jewellers supply house.

3. That's a bloody odd piece of kit for a jeweller, I've only ever seen
them in an armourer's workshop where they're used to make couters and
polenys.

What are you planning on making?

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.




  #4  
Old August 22nd 07, 04:24 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Peter W.. Rowe,
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 355
Default sinusoidal stake source?

On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:14:40 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry "William Black"
wrote:


"Georgia" wrote in message
. ..
I was surprised and disappointed to find, on Googling "sinusoidal stake,"
to
find only a handful of sources--Otto Frei, Walsh (all the way in the UK),
and Allcraft. Am I missing something obvious here?


1. Walsh's sell mainly German stakes.

2. They're a specialist 'detail engineering' supplier as well as a
jewellers supply house.

3. That's a bloody odd piece of kit for a jeweller, I've only ever seen
them in an armourer's workshop where they're used to make couters and
polenys.

What are you planning on making?



Mr. Black's posting, and his being unaware of what the stakes are used for in
the U.S., nicely illustrates just why sinusoidal stakes are still somewhat of a
rarity. Most larger stake manufacturers are traditional european firms, or
patterned after such, and making designs refined over a long tradition of their
use. Anticlastic raising, by contrast, is quite new, and it's teaching has
been, so far, mostly concentrated in the U.S. The word itself only entered the
metals field by means of Heikki Seppa's (spelling? Not gonna look it up. sorry
H.S.) cool little book on shell forming and nomenclature in the 60s, which
introduced as well, some new ways of thinking about metal forming and the shapes
one could get, as well as why work that way. But his work was larger in scale.
Not until Michael Good, for the most part, refined thos methods to work on a
small jewelry scale, were "raising" tools of a size needed to make jewelry,
needed enough for standard designs, like a sinusoidal stake, introduced. That
stake, which is nothing more than a convenient means to have a whole series of
progressively smaller anticlastic curves on which to work on small items, all in
one tool, is quite specifically the result of Michaels innovative work and
methods. European jewelry traditions have not yet really incorporated those
methods, though of course individual artists may well have, just as U.S. artists
learn stuff from their european colleagues. But the tools are still pretty much
limited in availability, since the market for them is still small.

Peter
  #5  
Old August 23rd 07, 02:59 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
mbstevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 165
Default sinusoidal stake source?

Peter W.. Rowe, wrote:

Not until Michael Good, for the most part, refined thos methods to work on a
small jewelry scale, were "raising" tools of a size needed to make jewelry,
needed enough for standard designs, like a sinusoidal stake, introduced.


Mr. Good has a site he
http://midcoast.com/~mgood/

  #6  
Old August 23rd 07, 02:59 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
William Black
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 77
Default sinusoidal stake source?


"Peter W.. Rowe," wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:14:40 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry "William Black"
wrote:


"Georgia" wrote in message
...
I was surprised and disappointed to find, on Googling "sinusoidal
stake,"
to
find only a handful of sources--Otto Frei, Walsh (all the way in the
UK),
and Allcraft. Am I missing something obvious here?

1. Walsh's sell mainly German stakes.

2. They're a specialist 'detail engineering' supplier as well as a
jewellers supply house.

3. That's a bloody odd piece of kit for a jeweller, I've only ever seen
them in an armourer's workshop where they're used to make couters and
polenys.

What are you planning on making?



Mr. Black's posting, and his being unaware of what the stakes are used for
in
the U.S., nicely illustrates just why sinusoidal stakes are still
somewhat of a
rarity. Most larger stake manufacturers are traditional european firms,
or
patterned after such, and making designs refined over a long tradition of
their
use. Anticlastic raising, by contrast, is quite new, and it's teaching
has
been, so far, mostly concentrated in the U.S. The word itself only
entered the
metals field by means of Heikki Seppa's (spelling? Not gonna look it up.
sorry
H.S.) cool little book on shell forming and nomenclature in the 60s, which
introduced as well, some new ways of thinking about metal forming and the
shapes
one could get, as well as why work that way. But his work was larger in
scale.
Not until Michael Good, for the most part, refined thos methods to work on
a
small jewelry scale, were "raising" tools of a size needed to make
jewelry,
needed enough for standard designs, like a sinusoidal stake, introduced.
That
stake, which is nothing more than a convenient means to have a whole
series of
progressively smaller anticlastic curves on which to work on small items,
all in
one tool, is quite specifically the result of Michaels innovative work and
methods. European jewelry traditions have not yet really incorporated
those
methods, though of course individual artists may well have, just as U.S.
artists
learn stuff from their european colleagues. But the tools are still
pretty much
limited in availability, since the market for them is still small.


I looked some of the stuff up on the web.

Some of it is remarkably ugly, if novel.

A lot of it looks like something from a Birmingham School of Jewellery 'End
of course' show that is more for looking at, showing off professional
design skills and getting a job than actually selling.

Some of it's bent tube that can be bent using any reasonable tube bending
process.

People in the UK do rather tend to buy jewellery because they like it rather
than because it looks striking and unusual.

As for the wavy stake, the armourers one is about fifteen inches long, two
inches wide and is often the subject of unsavoury jokes involving young
ladies.

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.



  #7  
Old August 23rd 07, 02:59 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Georgia[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 30
Default sinusoidal stake source?

Looking to do anticlastic raising--organic curves. Michael Good's article in
the July 2007 Lapidary Journal for Jewelry Arts (or whatever they've renamed
themselves) will tell you more than I could about it.

Georgia

"William Black" wrote in message
...

"Georgia" wrote in message
...
I was surprised and disappointed to find, on Googling "sinusoidal stake,"
to
find only a handful of sources--Otto Frei, Walsh (all the way in the

UK),
and Allcraft. Am I missing something obvious here?


1. Walsh's sell mainly German stakes.

2. They're a specialist 'detail engineering' supplier as well as a
jewellers supply house.

3. That's a bloody odd piece of kit for a jeweller, I've only ever seen
them in an armourer's workshop where they're used to make couters and
polenys.

What are you planning on making?

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.






  #8  
Old August 23rd 07, 03:21 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Peter W.. Rowe,
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 355
Default sinusoidal stake source?

On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 18:59:40 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry "William Black"
wrote:


I looked some of the stuff up on the web.

Some of it is remarkably ugly, if novel.

A lot of it looks like something from a Birmingham School of Jewellery 'End
of course' show that is more for looking at, showing off professional
design skills and getting a job than actually selling.

That's a pretty belittling set of statements, sir, from someone who apparently
hasn't seen, on the web or otherwise, good examples of the kind of jewelry that
can be made with these methods. Before you pooh pooh it too much, consider
that those people who do this really well, create work that is quite sought
after, and which brings high prices, and high praise from the critics and judges
who see it, and disparaging comments usually only from those competitors who's
work cannot compete... I'll assume that your statements arise not from such
negative bias, but just from not having had the opportunity to see, and
preferably hold in the hand, good jewelry made this way. It can be quite
exceptional, and often the designs do not lend themselves to being made any
other way.

Some of it's bent tube that can be bent using any reasonable tube bending
process.

If it's bent tube, it's not anticlastic raising. Anticlastic raising is a
process of turning strip shaped sheet metal, often tapered in width and
sometimes in thickness, into a channel shape which also curves along it's
length. Similar to a bent tube, but not closed over into a tube, and both the
tubular or channel shape, and the long axis curves are generated at the same
time. The difference may not seem extreme, but it gives rise to quite
different results. The process can, if one wishes, be continued until the
channel closes over into a bent tube, but usually, it is not. The subtleties
that make this sort of work as interesting as it is often do not show up well in
web based photos. Hold it in the hand, and you appreciate it's unique
qualities. For one thing, it can be very light, springy, and flexible, while
remaining remarkably strong, a function of the various curves being generated in
part by the natural forces/stresses built up in the metal during working. A
plain bent tube, flexed, often is prone to kink or permanently distort. An
anticlast will just spring right back into it's original shape, if it's been
left reasonably work hardened. And as I noted, a great deal of this work is
done with tapered shapes, not straight tube. Again, not as simple as plain bent
tube as you assume.

That doesn't by the way, mean that this is some sort of difficult arcane skill.
Just the opposite. It's a set of specific techniques/ methods and tools tuned
to those methods, that is fairly easily mastered at the basic levels. As with
most basic techniques, doing it really well is another matter entirely, needing
practice and some aesthetic maturity to design a beautiful and graceful form.

People in the UK do rather tend to buy jewellery because they like it rather
than because it looks striking and unusual.


I beg to differ. People in the UK buy jewelry for the same reasons anyone else
does. First, they like it for some reason. But the reasons they like it are
personal and varied. Some people will buy ordinary mass produced stuff just
like what everyone else buys. Some will buy things to project an image of
affluence. Some will buy things because they actually are different or
striking, just as with fashions. European jewelry consumers, in my experience,
tend to be actually MORE daring, on the whole, than the average american jewelry
consumer, in part due to the fact that jewelry training in the UK and europe as
a whole, produces art school or trade school graduates somewhat better able to
hand make competent well designed and unique jewelry. The averge quality level
of the workmanship to be found in commercial jewelry in the EU tends to be
somewhat higher than in the states, and consumers have learned to appreciate
and demand it. Along with that higher level, and greater frequency, of hand
made jewelry to be found commercially, you also as a matter of course also see a
greater percentage of work that can be described as innovative and unusual. That
doesn't mean it's all that way, of course. Mediocrity rears it's head
everywhere. But my own observations when abroad are that jewelry in europe
tends to be at a higher average level than in the states, or for that matter, in
most of the rest of the world.

As for the wavy stake, the armourers one is about fifteen inches long, two
inches wide and is often the subject of unsavoury jokes involving young
ladies.


Yeah, well these are smaller, and generally used either by young (and old)
ladies who're making beautiful jewelry with them, or trying to, or by gents who
are not armourers, and who hopefully have a bit higher respect for the ladies.

However, it would not surprise me if, though the scale of the tools is
different, the mechanical uses of the stakes, ie the types of forming they are
used for, had some strong similarities in the geometric operations being
performed on the stakes (anticlastic curves), even if the end forms are very
different.

Peter
  #9  
Old August 23rd 07, 06:59 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Carl 1 Lucky Texan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 57
Default sinusoidal stake source?

Georgia wrote:
I was surprised and disappointed to find, on Googling "sinusoidal stake," to
find only a handful of sources--Otto Frei, Walsh (all the way in the UK),
and Allcraft. Am I missing something obvious here?

Georgia


Miland also sells tools that may be useful for this type of forming;

http://www.jewelrytoolsbymiland.com/Tools.htm


Carl


--
to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net)
  #10  
Old August 23rd 07, 04:39 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
William Black
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 77
Default sinusoidal stake source?


"Peter W.. Rowe," wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 18:59:40 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry "William Black"
wrote:


I looked some of the stuff up on the web.

Some of it is remarkably ugly, if novel.

A lot of it looks like something from a Birmingham School of Jewellery
'End
of course' show that is more for looking at, showing off professional
design skills and getting a job than actually selling.

That's a pretty belittling set of statements, sir, from someone who
apparently
hasn't seen, on the web or otherwise, good examples of the kind of jewelry
that
can be made with these methods. Before you pooh pooh it too much,
consider
that those people who do this really well, create work that is quite
sought
after, and which brings high prices, and high praise from the critics and
judges
who see it, and disparaging comments usually only from those competitors
who's
work cannot compete... I'll assume that your statements arise not from
such
negative bias, but just from not having had the opportunity to see, and
preferably hold in the hand, good jewelry made this way. It can be quite
exceptional, and often the designs do not lend themselves to being made
any
other way.


Point taken.

I should be getting to Spring Fair next year and I'll have a look and see
if there's any about.

Some of it's bent tube that can be bent using any reasonable tube bending
process.

If it's bent tube, it's not anticlastic raising. Anticlastic raising is
a
process of turning strip shaped sheet metal, often tapered in width and
sometimes in thickness, into a channel shape which also curves along it's
length. Similar to a bent tube, but not closed over into a tube, and both
the
tubular or channel shape, and the long axis curves are generated at the
same
time. The difference may not seem extreme, but it gives rise to quite
different results.


Then some people in the USA seem to be selling bent tube jewellery and
calling it anticlastic jewellery.

Or at least that's what the web pages look as if they're selling.

But my own observations when abroad are that jewelry in europe
tends to be at a higher average level than in the states, or for that
matter, in
most of the rest of the world.


Thank you.

As for the wavy stake, the armourers one is about fifteen inches long,
two
inches wide and is often the subject of unsavoury jokes involving young
ladies.


Yeah, well these are smaller, and generally used either by young (and old)
ladies who're making beautiful jewelry with them, or trying to, or by
gents who
are not armourers, and who hopefully have a bit higher respect for the
ladies.

However, it would not surprise me if, though the scale of the tools is
different, the mechanical uses of the stakes, ie the types of forming they
are
used for, had some strong similarities in the geometric operations being
performed on the stakes (anticlastic curves), even if the end forms are
very
different.


That's something I've been interested in for years as I came to jewellery
from an engineering background.

It's all part of the dichotomy between the 'whitesmiths' and 'blacksmiths'
of the medieval guilds, the whitesmiths worked metal cold and the
blacksmiths worked metal hot.

But just as the goldsmiths were at the top of the whitesmith tree the
armourers were at the top of the blacksmiths tree.

I did some blacksmithing to work out what the real differences are.

The major one is that blacksmith distort metal to make their shapes, the
whitesmiths remove it much of the time.

A blacksmith who was making (for example) something that looked like a
conventional setting for a stone wouldn't even consider cutting bits of
metal away with a cold chisel, he'd bend it and distort it until it fitted
and chop the surplus off at the end of the process. A stone setter cuts
away the surplus metal until the prong is the correct shape.

The similarities, raising, sinking, engraving and such, are common to
all fabrication of metals.

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.



 




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