A crafts forum. CraftBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » CraftBanter forum » Craft related newsgroups » Jewelry
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Seeking Advice on jewelry moldings and metal supplys.



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old January 3rd 07, 09:59 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Kendall Davies
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15
Default Seeking Advice on jewelry moldings and metal supplys.

On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 17:51:27 +0000, mbstevens wrote:

I don't agree there, this is hardly a flame war, the only person who has
gone out of their way to be insulting is the original poster. Yes there have
been blunt opinions given but they have all been absolutely on the point. In
fact he/she was so quick to respond with invective that I'm of the opinion
that the whole thing has been a set up.

Kendall




"mbstevens" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 01:17:27 +0000, ME wrote:

Hello (im new here)

I was hoping somebody in this newsgroup might be able to offer me
some advice....


________________________________________
Moderator's Note:
This whole thread seems to be degrading into a flame war.
Everyone has now had a chance to bare their armpits, so
I'm soon going to call it killed unless someone actually has something to
say about jewelry, or the jewelry industry.

Please trim posts to only quote particular material form the previous
post that is being responded to. Third party readers don't want to slog
through a two page entry only to find more flames.
__________________________________________



Ads
  #12  
Old January 3rd 07, 11:09 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Andrew Werby
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default Seeking Advice on jewelry moldings and metal supplys.

"ME" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 15:21:57 +0000, John wrote:
You gotta be kidding right? You want us to help you to make our
lives
harder? It sounds to me like "her current goldsmith" is just about to
lose
some work. With the way you're talking about jewellery, you're way out of
your league already.


John


the current goldsmith will be keeping her existing work, I am seeking
to develop "new pieces" which will fall under my own label which will
be marketed alongside the existing collection.


[Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but it sounds like you're intending to copy
the "look and feel" of the line your current goldsmith has done for you,
patent it under your own name, take the production offshore, and keep all
the money for yourself. While this may be (barely) legal, it is not the sort
of thing that's calculated to draw a warm response from the goldsmiths that
usually gather here...]

If you are not
interested in giving quotes thats fine. I can take my business
elsewhere to people eager to sell there services and make new clients
who will buy the finest materials available.


[You haven't been asking for quotes, or sharing much about what you're
actually trying to make. You've mostly talked about getting the lowest
prices in the world, and asking us to share our hard-earned knowledge and
sources of goods, while staying anonymous. I'm afraid you come off more
like a ruthless competitor than a source of business for most of the
jewelers here. Fortunately, you also seem pretty clueless about the basics
of jewelry making, so you're probably just going to lose a bundle of money,
as Abrasha kindly warned you.]

From the replies i am
receiving so far i am suprised people like yourself and the previous
hostile reply manage to forge relationships let alone forge gold. You
people need a lesson in business communication skills and learn to
respect potential business clients even when they may ask questions
that show no prior knowledge of jewelery. For all you know i could have
a global network of stores and you just turned away a million dollar
business deal. Your loss, not mine. Out of my league?.....Do you think
you are helping your own business by telling newcomers they are out of
their league.? You only make yourself sound arrogant and obnoxious. If
you were in any kind of league yourself you would show better business
etiquet rather than your walmart customer service skills. Since you
have no idea how much budget i have to spend you have no way of knowing
if it is yourself who is way out of my league. If i owned a store i
would not employ someone with your attitude to clean the toilets let
alone serve potential clients with your walmart customer service
skills. You are your own worst enemy with your hostile unprovoked
attitude. Perhaps you make nice jewelry but your people and business
skills stink.


[Well, to keep this thread from degenerating further, maybe we can let you
have the last word on all that. When you asked a specific question, about
the suitability of 24k gold as a substitute for other alloys, you got an
accurate answer. But answers to general questions, like how to buy diamonds
at wholesale in the world market, are outside the realm of things you can
reasonably expect from a forum like this. This is something that takes a lot
of experience and study to learn, as well as considerable capital (and
nerve) to actually do. I doubt that many of us here are at that level;
perhaps the poster above meant to say it was out of OUR league...]

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com


  #13  
Old January 3rd 07, 11:39 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
ted frater
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 133
Default Seeking Advice on jewelry moldings and metal supplys.

ME wrote:
Abrasha wrote:


ME wrote:

Hello (im new here)

I was hoping somebody in this newsgroup might be able to offer me
some advice on a jewellery collection i am trying to market. I already
have a collection made up (not available for viewing yet)which i am
contracted to begin marketing soon but also need to have new designs
made up in the existing style. I am only contracted to the existing
collection and so have no experience dealing with goldsmiths and
jewelers. I was hoping somebody might give me a rough ballpark estimate
with example links to the costs of having new designs made into molds
for gold, silver, white gold, and platinum in the full range of carats.
I am also in the market for perhaps finding a new source for our
gold/silv/platinum supply and wanted to know which countries are
generally concidered the cheapest/best places to buy from. The existing
collection is available in 14carot only, and i am told by the artist
her current goldsmith insists it is not possible to have the current
collection in a higher carat due to the softness of the metals. I am
unsure if this response is simply because the artist does not have the
time to arange higher carats or if the reasons given are genuine. I was
hoping to market the collection as being available in the highest
carats and finest quality diamonds and would apreciate any advice on
limitations that may exist and how i might find a way around these
limitations to provide the best quality materials. So much info exists
on the net, it makes it difficult to filter the quality from the masses
of junk, so im hoping for some pointers or shortcuts here. I will soon
be moving production to eastern europe due to the very low costs of
labour there and so sourcing metals and manufacturing the pieces from
molds are taken care of already. I simply need to have some molds made
up and find a supplier of metals and the finest quality small diamonds
for rings etc.

Many thanks for any advice offered.

A


If you have to come here for advice, you are in the wrong business my
friend. Your questions are the ones from someone who has no business
being in this business.

Take your money and run!

--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com



As i stated i am in web design and marketing, not the jewellery trade,
and i have a new and unique collection i am contracted to market and
brand. Would i be right in saying that your comment suggests prior
knowledge of jewelry craft is esential in posting to this group and
that those with purely an interest are not welcome? Perhaps other
people in this group might not appreciate you directing away their
potential business of selling the highest quality and most expensive
materials which i seek?. Perhaps someone with your stance towards
potential new business has no business being in any kind of business
since you have no problem with sending away the potential new business
of other jewelers operating around you. Not a business skill often
found in "the school of common sense business". My questions probably
indeed are nieve since i openly have no knowledge of this trade and
jewellery, however as some might say "everybody must start somewhere"
as you yourself once did. Nobody can ever give thanks to their "start"
without thanking those who were willing to share their knowledge and
cooperate in the first place.

words for thought i hope

Kind regards...A


you may find Abrash's short and blunt reply upsetting
BUT he is a man of fewwords but very extensive knowhow in the top end of
the jewellery trade.
His advice is right, because you need an indepth background and long
standing practical knowledge of this trade in order not to make the
expensive mistakes you will make by transplanting your webdesign and
marketing skills to the jewellers business.
The skills just dont transplant into the jewellery manufacturing field.
Ive been a working silversmith for some 39 years designing, making and
marketing my own ideas and work and still only know my speciality ,
which is wrought work. IE forged and raised and minted objects.
Your best bet is to go to someone who is a major manufacturer and ask
him to quote you to make everything you want done. then go to one of the
top high st jewellers and offer them the collection. youll learn a great
deal from these 2 exercises, the main one is wether its worth your while
bothering with the project at all.
Now as to where to get the work made. Eastern Europe is cheaper on
labour BUT what control do you have over a production run a long way
from where you are.
Ive worked for the leading London Jewellers and know how they design,
make and market their jewellery.
there the ones your competing against, some of them have a tradition
going back some 100 years or more.
I wish you all the luck in the world idf you go down this road.


  #14  
Old January 4th 07, 02:20 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Abrasha
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 298
Default Seeking Advice on jewelry moldings and metal supplys.

On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 15:48:58 +0000, ME wrote:

ME wrote:
Abrasha wrote:

ME wrote:
Hello (im new here)

I was hoping somebody in this newsgroup might be able to offer me
some advice on a jewellery collection i am trying to market. I already
have a collection made up (not available for viewing yet)which i am
contracted to begin marketing soon but also need to have new designs
made up in the existing style. I am only contracted to the existing
collection and so have no experience dealing with goldsmiths and
jewelers. I was hoping somebody might give me a rough ballpark estimate
with example links to the costs of having new designs made into molds
for gold, silver, white gold, and platinum in the full range of carats.
I am also in the market for perhaps finding a new source for our
gold/silv/platinum supply and wanted to know which countries are
generally concidered the cheapest/best places to buy from. The existing
collection is available in 14carot only, and i am told by the artist
her current goldsmith insists it is not possible to have the current
collection in a higher carat due to the softness of the metals. I am
unsure if this response is simply because the artist does not have the
time to arange higher carats or if the reasons given are genuine. I was
hoping to market the collection as being available in the highest
carats and finest quality diamonds and would apreciate any advice on
limitations that may exist and how i might find a way around these
limitations to provide the best quality materials. So much info exists
on the net, it makes it difficult to filter the quality from the masses
of junk, so im hoping for some pointers or shortcuts here. I will soon
be moving production to eastern europe due to the very low costs of
labour there and so sourcing metals and manufacturing the pieces from
molds are taken care of already. I simply need to have some molds made
up and find a supplier of metals and the finest quality small diamonds
for rings etc.

Many thanks for any advice offered.

A

If you have to come here for advice, you are in the wrong business my
friend. Your questions are the ones from someone who has no business
being in this business.

Take your money and run!

--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com


As i stated i am in web design and marketing, not the jewellery trade,
and i have a new and unique collection i am contracted to market and
brand. Would i be right in saying that your comment suggests prior
knowledge of jewelry craft is esential in posting to this group and
that those with purely an interest are not welcome?


No, not at all. However, you are obviously such a beginner, that
undertaking what you are trying to, at an international level no less,
is something you should not touch with a 10 foot pole, IMO.

On top of that, trying to get advice from a handful of people you have
absolutely no knowledge of, is further testimony of your ignorance in
the field. You know nothing about us, nor do you have any clue if we
are at all qualified to give you advice about the kind of things you
want knowledge of.

The Net is not useful for everything!


Perhaps other
people in this group might not appreciate you directing away their
potential business of selling the highest quality and most expensive
materials which i seek?.


So what makes you thinks, that you are in the right place for this.
Give me 2 or 3 reasons please.

Perhaps someone with your stance towards
potential new business has no business being in any kind of business
since you have no problem with sending away the potential new business
of other jewelers operating around you. Not a business skill often
found in "the school of common sense business". My questions probably
indeed are nieve since i openly have no knowledge of this trade and
jewellery, however as some might say "everybody must start somewhere"
as you yourself once did.


I did indeed. I did not however go to an online newsgroup frequented by
a bunch of strangers. I went to school and then studied with masters
to hone my craft.

--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com


  #15  
Old January 4th 07, 02:24 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Abrasha
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 298
Default Seeking Advice on jewelry moldings and metal supplys.

mbstevens wrote:
On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 18:01:42 +0000, ME wrote:
... Would i be right in saying that
"any" piece of jewellery can be re designed into a higher carat


No. Strength and hardness matter.

or are
some carats simply not used in the trade for certain items due to the
softness of the metal?.


Yes. But karet is not the only influence on softness. Different
metals can be alloyed with gold.

hypothetical example: Is there a market for 24
carat watches or would a watch be too easily damaged in 24carats?


Anyone who owned a solid 24K watch would probably take very good care of
it, even if it did scratch easily. I have seen none at Walmart lately,
but if you visited the Rolex factory you might find some --


No he won't! One, because he would have no access to a Rolex factory,
and two, because 24K gold is not suitable for a watch case.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

  #16  
Old January 4th 07, 02:34 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Abrasha
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 298
Default Seeking Advice on jewelry moldings and metal supplys.

ME wrote:


Since i am hoping to source the finest materials at the cheapest
possible prices i was hoping you might also have some tips for someone
who has no knowledge of metals and diamonds on where they might begin.


That's the kind of information I have gathered over a period of 30
years. I'm certainly not going to giver that away to some yokel in a
newsgroup just because he asks for it. I don't know you. Why would I
give you my precious resources which I have developed over such a long
period of time. What if you don't pay your bills. I'll be the one with
egg on his face.

I know that the diamond trade is often seen as highly corrupt


Oh, and where have you gained this knowledge?

and i
would apreciate some pointers or tips on how someone with no
experiences might avoid getting stung without the need for years of
studying metal and diamond quality theory.


Oh, you want it the easy way. You're knocking on the wrong door pal.

"without the need for years of studying metal and diamond quality
theory." You have a lot of gall my friend. Like I said in my first
response, you have no business being in this business, especially since
you are obviously not willing to pay your dues.

Can you recommend a well
known reliable wholesale source which is widely recognised in the
industry as being honest and reliable.?


Yes.

I would rather pay a slightly
higher price from a know reputable source than buy from the cheapest
offers.


But only slightly of course.

Or perhaps you know which countries are often used in the trade
to source metal and diamond supplies?.


I don't seize to be amazed by your sheer unmitigated audacity and gall.

--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com


  #17  
Old January 4th 07, 03:00 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Abrasha
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 298
Default Seeking Advice on jewelry moldings and metal supplys.

John wrote:

SNIP


Many thanks for any advice offered.


You gotta be kidding right? You want us to help you to make our lives
harder? It sounds to me like "her current goldsmith" is just about to lose
some work. With the way you're talking about jewellery, you're way out of
your league already.


John


Amen!
--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com


  #18  
Old January 4th 07, 03:01 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Abrasha
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 298
Default Seeking Advice on jewelry moldings and metal supplys.

ME wrote:


As i stated i am in web design


You did not state that in your OP, you just stated that for the first
time.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com


  #19  
Old January 4th 07, 03:09 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Abrasha
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 298
Default Seeking Advice on jewelry moldings and metal supplys.

Andrew Werby wrote:
"ME" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 15:21:57 +0000, John wrote:
You gotta be kidding right? You want us to help you to make our
lives
harder? It sounds to me like "her current goldsmith" is just about to
lose
some work. With the way you're talking about jewellery, you're way out of
your league already.


John

the current goldsmith will be keeping her existing work, I am seeking
to develop "new pieces" which will fall under my own label which will
be marketed alongside the existing collection.


[Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but it sounds like you're intending to copy
the "look and feel" of the line your current goldsmith has done for you,
patent it under your own name, take the production offshore, and keep all
the money for yourself. While this may be (barely) legal, it is not the sort
of thing that's calculated to draw a warm response from the goldsmiths that
usually gather here...]

If you are not
interested in giving quotes thats fine. I can take my business
elsewhere to people eager to sell there services and make new clients
who will buy the finest materials available.


[You haven't been asking for quotes, or sharing much about what you're
actually trying to make. You've mostly talked about getting the lowest
prices in the world, and asking us to share our hard-earned knowledge and
sources of goods, while staying anonymous. I'm afraid you come off more
like a ruthless competitor than a source of business for most of the
jewelers here. Fortunately, you also seem pretty clueless about the basics
of jewelry making, so you're probably just going to lose a bundle of money,
as Abrasha kindly warned you.]

From the replies i am
receiving so far i am suprised people like yourself and the previous
hostile reply manage to forge relationships let alone forge gold. You
people need a lesson in business communication skills and learn to
respect potential business clients even when they may ask questions
that show no prior knowledge of jewelery. For all you know i could have
a global network of stores and you just turned away a million dollar
business deal. Your loss, not mine. Out of my league?.....Do you think
you are helping your own business by telling newcomers they are out of
their league.? You only make yourself sound arrogant and obnoxious. If
you were in any kind of league yourself you would show better business
etiquet rather than your walmart customer service skills. Since you
have no idea how much budget i have to spend you have no way of knowing
if it is yourself who is way out of my league. If i owned a store i
would not employ someone with your attitude to clean the toilets let
alone serve potential clients with your walmart customer service
skills. You are your own worst enemy with your hostile unprovoked
attitude. Perhaps you make nice jewelry but your people and business
skills stink.


[Well, to keep this thread from degenerating further, maybe we can let you
have the last word on all that. When you asked a specific question, about
the suitability of 24k gold as a substitute for other alloys, you got an
accurate answer. But answers to general questions, like how to buy diamonds
at wholesale in the world market, are outside the realm of things you can
reasonably expect from a forum like this. This is something that takes a lot
of experience and study to learn, as well as considerable capital (and
nerve) to actually do. I doubt that many of us here are at that level;
perhaps the poster above meant to say it was out of OUR league...]

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com



Excellent post. I could not have said it better myself. With my level
of tact, not a snowball's chance in Hell.

--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com
  #20  
Old January 4th 07, 03:13 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Abrasha
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 298
Default Seeking Advice on jewelry moldings and metal supplys.

ME wrote:
On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 15:21:57 +0000, John wrote:
You gotta be kidding right? You want us to help you to make our lives
harder? It sounds to me like "her current goldsmith" is just about to lose
some work. With the way you're talking about jewellery, you're way out of
your league already.


John


the current goldsmith will be keeping her existing work, I am seeking
to develop "new pieces" which will fall under my own label which will
be marketed alongside the existing collection. If you are not
interested in giving quotes thats fine. I can take my business
elsewhere to people eager to sell there services and make new clients
who will buy the finest materials available. From the replies i am
receiving so far i am suprised people like yourself and the previous
hostile reply manage to forge relationships let alone forge gold. You
people need a lesson in business communication skills and learn to
respect potential business clients even when they may ask questions
that show no prior knowledge of jewelery.


Business communication skills? You did not even have the decency to
introduce yourself to this group when you barged in here asked you silly
questions! Nor where you are located, or that you were interested in
steering business to any member of this group. You came here for free
advice, and nothing less!

For all you know i could have
a global network of stores and you just turned away a million dollar
business deal.


You don't have a pot to **** in pal! People with million dollar
business deals don't ask the kind of questions you ask in places like
this. They know where to go, or hire people to find out for them.

Your loss, not mine. Out of my league?.....Do you think
you are helping your own business by telling newcomers they are out of
their league.? You only make yourself sound arrogant and obnoxious. If
you were in any kind of league yourself you would show better business
etiquet rather than your walmart customer service skills. Since you
have no idea how much budget i have to spend


You could have told us this in your oh so professional business like
introduction, right next to your name.

you have no way of knowing
if it is yourself who is way out of my league.


It's painfully obvious.

If i owned a store i
would not employ someone with your attitude to clean the toilets let
alone serve potential clients with your walmart customer service
skills.


Now this is getting good and juicy. Almost entertaining in fact. Sure
sounds to me like a business man who is used to talking million dollar
business deals.

You are your own worst enemy with your hostile unprovoked
attitude. Perhaps you make nice jewelry but your people and business
skills stink.


Thank God there are people like you we can learn such skills from. Do
you even begin to realize that you are not helping your case very much,
and that you have in fact just dug your own grave with this post.



Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CraftBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.