dyeing wool with hair dye

My wife made me a beautiful floor-length black coat for Christmas.
She purchased a white wool liner with lapels that show on the front of
the coat, and at my insistance, tried to dye the wool black. It came out
a pale spotty gray. She used RIT dye in cold water. Would black human
hair coloring work to make the wool black? If not, does anyone have a
suggestion?

Rich

I can't see the OP but:

Unless you plan to use the stuff for doll hair there are many other
better things to dye your wool with.

In article ,
eyeclinic wrote:
My wife made me a beautiful floor-length black coat for Christmas.
She purchased a white wool liner with lapels that show on the front of
the coat, and at my insistance, tried to dye the wool black. It came out
a pale spotty gray. She used RIT dye in cold water. Would black human
hair coloring work to make the wool black? If not, does anyone have a
suggestion?

Sorry to be unhelpful... I'm told that white wool often won't take dye
well because of the bleaching process that makes it white instead of
off-white "natural" color. Or perhaps the liner had been coated with
something to make it stain-resistant.

I know absolutely nothing about dyeing wool. However, I believe RIT
makes a product called Color Remover, which is supposed to remove
existing color from fabric so that the RIT dye can then be used on
as pale a fabric base as possible. I don't know whether color
remover would help, but at this point it seems that you have the
choice of having pale spotty lapels or trying something else (or
buying another liner). Even if all it did was remove the gray
or even it out, it might be worth a try.

However, there are also specialty dyes made to use with wool.
One of those might work.

=Tamar

Sorry, no answers, just more questions. I have this unfortunate habit of
wearing new black t-shirts when I bleach the kitchen counters, and therefore
have several t-shirts with a bleach line across my stomach. My understanding is
that the bleach damages the fibers to the extent that they will not absorb dye
properly and so one can never completely get rid of the bleach mark. Is this
the same process that is going on with his coat (irrespective of the fact that
it is a completely different fiber.)

Dora
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(Richard Eney)

My wife made me a beautiful floor-length black coat for Christmas.
She purchased a white wool liner with lapels that show on the front of
the coat, and at my insistance, tried to dye the wool black. It came out
a pale spotty gray. She used RIT dye in cold water. Would black human
hair coloring work to make the wool black? If not, does anyone have a
suggestion?

Sorry to be unhelpful... I'm told that white wool often won't take dye
well because of the bleaching process that makes it white instead of
off-white "natural" color. Or perhaps the liner had been coated with
something to make it stain-resistant.

I know absolutely nothing about dyeing wool. However, I believe RIT
makes a product called Color Remover, which is supposed to remove
existing color from fabric so that the RIT dye can then be used on
as pale a fabric base as possible. I don't know whether color
remover would help, but at this point it seems that you have the
choice of having pale spotty lapels or trying something else (or
buying another liner). Even if all it did was remove the gray
or even it out, it might be worth a try.

However, there are also specialty dyes made to use with wool.
One of those might work.

=Tamar

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 02:00:06 -0000, (Richard Eney)
spewed forth :

In article ,
eyeclinic wrote:
My wife made me a beautiful floor-length black coat for Christmas.
She purchased a white wool liner with lapels that show on the front of
the coat, and at my insistance, tried to dye the wool black. It came out
a pale spotty gray. She used RIT dye in cold water. Would black human
hair coloring work to make the wool black? If not, does anyone have a
suggestion?

Ok, now I can see the OP

So, at risk of pointing out the obvious, instead of dyeing the liner
why didn't you simply exchange it for one to your liking? Failing
that, a professional dye job hired through your local cleaner would
have been an acceptable substitute and you'd have a scapegoat

Having gotten that off my chest, so to speak, I'll say that RIT dye
works best on CELLULOSIC fibers, which ain't wool by no stretch of
nobody's imagination, and even on cellulosic fibers (cotton) the stuff
has to be boiled to within an inch of my patience - cold water dyeing
just doesn't work.

Wool is a protein fiber. As such it really does best with acid dyes.
RIT tries to be all things to all people and as a result does a poor
job of being any thing to anyone. One can, with much effort and
several gallons of vinegar, create an environment in which RIT will
work on protein fibers, but it isn't worth the effort IMNSHO.

You'll have noticed by now that the "black" RIT dye was probably (I'm
guessing here, I haven't used RIT in forever) red with some other
colors schlepped in to produce the visual appearance of black when the
liquid dye was in your [tub, sink, washer, whatever]. All "black" dye
is based on one of the primaries or green, with others of the
primaries tossed in to produce visual black. You'll find green-black,
blue-black (the blackest black, imo), and red-black. Black isn't a
color, really, any more than white is. Black absorbs all
visual-spectrum radiation, white reflects it all; the "colors" we see
between the two are simply the wavelengths reflected best by whatever
object we happen to be looking at.

Ok, enough physics. On to dyeing the wool.

So, RIT didn't and won't work in a satisfactory manner when it comes
to wool. There are some commercial acid dyes on the market that might
do the trick. Before I give you a URL to a place that sells the stuff
let me blather on a bit about the actual process of dyeing wool.

1. You need VOLUME. I don't know how large this wool coatliner is,
but the container in which you do the dyeing MUST be large enough for
the dyebath to circulate freely around the item. NO CROWDING or
you'll have splotchy results. In the case of a sweater for an average
adult, this means a minimum 5-gallon pot. The bigger the item, the
bigger the pot, and the pot MUST be non-reactive. In other words, the
pot must be high-grade stainless or enamel-over-whatever, or for small
items, a pyrex bowl will do.

2. You need HEAT. This means hte ability to raise the temperature of
the dyebath to 190F and maintain that temperature for a minimum of 30
minutes and probably more like 60-90 minutes. Time and temperature
are largely dependent on the chemical composition of the dyestock and
the pH of the dyebath. While I'm on the topic of heat and wool - yes,
you can and must raise the temperature to "hot soup" range in order
for the dye to strike. If you don't beat the dickens out of the wool
while it is in the dyepot it won't full. Really.

So, hie thee off to http://www.dharmatrading.com (NAYY) and see
whatyou can see. Dharma offers directions for all of the dyestuffs
sold on the website as well as commentary as to their effectiveness on
any given fiber type.

G'luck!

In article , eyeclinic
wrote:

My wife made me a beautiful floor-length black coat for Christmas.
She purchased a white wool liner with lapels that show on the front of
the coat, and at my insistance, tried to dye the wool black. It came out
a pale spotty gray. She used RIT dye in cold water. Would black human
hair coloring work to make the wool black? If not, does anyone have a
suggestion?

Rich

Well no that would not work. You see dye for hair is created for just
that purpose. on your hair and not made to dye wool. Rit is an all
purpose, or what is called a union dye. That means that it is a dye you
can use for many different fibers. In the one box there are combinations
of different dyes so you can use it on wool silk and many man made fibers.
That is the reason you need many boxes to get a good colour. On top of
that, Black is the most difficult colour to dye.

I suggest that you go to the library and get a good book on chemical
dyeing and carefully read it, before you start dyeing. There are many
good brand out there, in good craft stores and mail order places. They
also will give you good instructions as well. Chiba Dyes, and Gay wool
dyes, etc.

Els

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"Bungadora" wrote in message
...
Sorry, no answers, just more questions. I have this unfortunate habit of
wearing new black t-shirts when I bleach the kitchen counters, and
therefore
have several t-shirts with a bleach line across my stomach. My
understanding is
that the bleach damages the fibers to the extent that they will not absorb
dye
properly and so one can never completely get rid of the bleach mark. Is
this
the same process that is going on with his coat (irrespective of the fact
that
it is a completely different fiber.)

Dora I do the same with my black T-shirts. I dye them black with no
problem. I don't know if they damage it but I do know that the bleach takes
out the black and leaves that patch the colour it was before the original
dye. I often dye them anyway because the black fades

Els van Dam wrote:

Well no that would not work. You see dye for hair is created for just
that purpose. on your hair and not made to dye wool. Rit is an all
purpose, or what is called a union dye. That means that it is a dye you
can use for many different fibers. In the one box there are combinations
of different dyes so you can use it on wool silk and many man made fibers.
That is the reason you need many boxes to get a good colour. On top of
that, Black is the most difficult colour to dye.

I suggest that you go to the library and get a good book on chemical
dyeing and carefully read it, before you start dyeing. There are many
good brand out there, in good craft stores and mail order places. They
also will give you good instructions as well. Chiba Dyes, and Gay wool
dyes, etc.

Els

Wool is sheep hair and both human and sheep hair are proteinaceous. If
a hair dye works on human hair, why shouldn't it work on sheep hair?
Now if you tell me that both hair types are chemically/biologically
different, then I can understand the argument. I tried going through a
commercial laundry and professional dyeing company but they balked at
the possibility of doing any better than we had already done.

Rich

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 08:40:41 -0500, eyeclinic
spewed forth :


Wool is sheep hair and both human and sheep hair are proteinaceous. If
a hair dye works on human hair, why shouldn't it work on sheep hair?
Now if you tell me that both hair types are chemically/biologically
different, then I can understand the argument.

Human hair and wool are in fact different. Human hair is smoother
with a tighter shaft (in most cases) than is wool. Human hair
typically consists of many layers of cuticle surrounding the cortex.
By comparison wool is generally a single layer of cuticle around the
cortex.

Dye for human hair is harsh for a reason - it has to peel back the
scales on many layers of cuticle in order to expose the cortex, which
is where the dye must attach in order to change the color of the hair
shaft. The stuff in the Clairol box will fry your coat liner.

Since wool has but a single cuticle layer it is easy to dye with a
vinegar and hot water bath and food coloring.

Again, RIT and cold water won't dye anything, in my experience.

I tried going through a
commercial laundry and professional dyeing company but they balked at
the possibility of doing any better than we had already done.

Right. Because as Els said, black is one of the most difficult colors
to achieve. However, if you're paying money and sign a waiver they
should be willing to make the effort.

Tip: Using bleach to strip out the botched dyejob will only serve to
damage the wool.

In article , Wooly
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 08:40:41 -0500, eyeclinic
spewed forth :


Wool is sheep hair and both human and sheep hair are proteinaceous. If
a hair dye works on human hair, why shouldn't it work on sheep hair?
Now if you tell me that both hair types are chemically/biologically
different, then I can understand the argument.

Human hair and wool are in fact different. Human hair is smoother
with a tighter shaft (in most cases) than is wool. Human hair
typically consists of many layers of cuticle surrounding the cortex.
By comparison wool is generally a single layer of cuticle around the
cortex.

Dye for human hair is harsh for a reason - it has to peel back the
scales on many layers of cuticle in order to expose the cortex, which
is where the dye must attach in order to change the color of the hair
shaft. The stuff in the Clairol box will fry your coat liner.

Since wool has but a single cuticle layer it is easy to dye with a
vinegar and hot water bath and food coloring.

Again, RIT and cold water won't dye anything, in my experience.

I tried going through a
commercial laundry and professional dyeing company but they balked at
the possibility of doing any better than we had already done.

Right. Because as Els said, black is one of the most difficult colors
to achieve. However, if you're paying money and sign a waiver they
should be willing to make the effort.

Tip: Using bleach to strip out the botched dyejob will only serve to
damage the wool.

Thanks wooly, right on....

That does not mean that you could not try to dye with hair dye and see
what happens.

I came out with a great near black dye, by mixing Ciba acid dyes, little
bits that I had sitting around. Deep reds blues and browns. All these
colours together will create black. It came as close to black as I have
ever gotten. This summer we did a warp dyeing session with Procion MX and
there black dye, tripple solution, came out a green. When you do buy
blackdyes from reputable chemistry firms, there usually are disclamers
right up front telling you that black is hard dye as a true black

Els

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