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Artist should be valued



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 8th 08, 09:15 PM posted to alt.art,rec.crafts.pottery,us.arts,rec.arts.fine
Andrew Werby
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default Artist should be valued


"Bob Masta" wrote in message
...

As I mentioned in my earlier posts, the artists are not now being
singled out for unfair treatment... it's the same rule that is applied
equally to all individuals, be they artists, carpenters, or truck
drivers. If, in fact, corporations don't have to abide by this same
rule is another question. They seem to be able to pick and choose
when they will be accorded treatment as persons (like demanding
"rights") and when they can hide behind the corporate veil.


[There's a difference between a volunteer, who contributes labor to a cause,
and an artist, who contributes a product. An artist is generally considered
a manufacturer by the government; they have to pay sales tax for retail
sales, for instance, while selling ones labor is exempt from that (at least
here in California). If a carpenter owns his own cabinet shop, and donates a
cabinet to a non-profit, it would be valued at full market value, unless he
called it "art". There's nothing that restricts this to corporations; if
you, as an individual, donate your car to charity, you get whatever they can
sell it for as a deduction. (It used to be Blue Book value, but they changed
that...)]

It would be very interesting to find out just where the corporate
perks come into play here. Consider a corporation consisting of
assembly-line artists cranking out "starving artist originals" the
way they do in third-world countries. Could the corporation
claim market value if it donated its products? If so, then just
how small a corporation would be eligible? It only takes 3 people
to form a standard corporation, so artist's co-ops would seem
to be eligible.


[I'm afraid you just made this up, Bob. It's owner-made art that's being
discriminated against here, not individuals or non-corporate entities. Under
current law as I understand it, if the corporation is considered the author
of the art, then all it could deduct would be the cost of materials. But if
it structured itself as an "art collection corporation" and bought the work
from the artists, then it could claim fair market value if it donated it to
a non-profit.]

Andrew Werby
www.unitedartworks.com


On Fri, 7 Mar 2008 15:54:23 -0800, "Andrew Werby"
wrote:

If a collector buys a work of art, and donates it to a museum, they can
deduct the fair market value at the time of the donation, not just what
they
paid originally. This can work out to a tidy profit for the donator. But
if
the artist who made it donates it, all he/she can deduct is the original
price of materials. Is this fair?

When an artist dies, by the way, the value of their art in the estate is
assessed at fair market value - the big problem alleged in fixing value
seems to disappear. Often, the heirs are forced to sell it off at
fire-sale
prices to pay the tax owed, and can't afford to donate any to non-profits.
Is that fair, or in the public interest?

Bob writes: "If your work is so good that museums want it, you can't be
hurting too badly." I wonder what planet he comes from. Here on earth,
being
able to produce art that's good -even good enough for museums - does not
guarantee any monetary income at all. Yes, you can indeed be hurting
badly.
While artists, I agree, should not be accorded specially favorable
treatment
in the tax code, neither should they be singled out for specially
unfavorable treatment. Any other manufacturer who donates their products
to
a recognized non-profit can deduct the fair market value, whether it is
computers for schools or food for the hungry, and this is generally
accepted
as good for everybody concerned. Many industries get more favorable
treatment than that, like the oil companies (and they're not exactly
hurting), which get a "depletion allowance" for the petroleum that lies in
the ground (appreciating greatly as it does so). But artists, uniquely,
are
arbitrarily limited to deducting the costs of their materials only; not
the
cost of their overhead, equipment, foundry services, education, or any of
the other costs that went into producing their art. Is that fair, or even
consistent?


As I mentioned in my earlier posts, the artists are not now being
singled out for unfair treatment... it's the same rule that is applied
equally to all individuals, be they artists, carpenters, or truck
drivers. If, in fact, corporations don't have to abide by this same
rule is another question. They seem to be able to pick and choose
when they will be accorded treatment as persons (like demanding
"rights") and when they can hide behind the corporate veil.

It would be very interesting to find out just where the corporate
perks come into play here. Consider a corporation consisting of
assembly-line artists cranking out "starving artist originals" the
way they do in third-world countries. Could the corporation
claim market value if it donated its products? If so, then just
how small a corporation would be eligible? It only takes 3 people
to form a standard corporation, so artist's co-ops would seem
to be eligible.

Nobody's talking about being "owed a living" here. A tax donation is only
useful if one has a tax liability in the first place; it does you no good
if
you're too poor to have to file a return. And if the museum didn't think a
prospective donation was worth having, they are under no obligation to
accept it. The tax code is commonly used to encourage things the
government
thinks are good (like owning a home, or digging oil wells), and to
discourage things it considers harmful (like smoking cigarettes, or buying
sugar from other countries). In this case, it would seem that art was in
the
latter category, as far as the bureaucrats of Washington are concerned. Of
course, it's really just a matter of political clout - the mortgage, oil
and
sugar industries have it, artists do not, and we are punished accordingly.
If we got together and lobbied for equitable treatment we might get it;
the
status quo is the result of our not having a collective voice that reaches
the ears of our rulers.

Andrew Werby

www.computersculpture.com


Again, I don't believe there is anything in the tax code that singles
out artists, so lobbying for "equitable" treatment won't help... it's
already the same treatment everyone gets. This may come down
to individuals versus corporate clout, but it's not about artists
per-se. We'd *all* like to be able to deduct fair market value
for donations of our labor or products!

Best regards,



Bob Masta

DAQARTA v3.50
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, FREE Signal Generator
Science with your sound card!



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  #12  
Old March 9th 08, 03:16 PM posted to alt.art,rec.crafts.pottery,us.arts,rec.arts.fine
Bob Masta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 96
Default Artist should be valued

On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 12:15:31 -0800, "Andrew Werby"
wrote:


"Bob Masta" wrote in message
...

As I mentioned in my earlier posts, the artists are not now being
singled out for unfair treatment... it's the same rule that is applied
equally to all individuals, be they artists, carpenters, or truck
drivers. If, in fact, corporations don't have to abide by this same
rule is another question. They seem to be able to pick and choose
when they will be accorded treatment as persons (like demanding
"rights") and when they can hide behind the corporate veil.


[There's a difference between a volunteer, who contributes labor to a cause,
and an artist, who contributes a product. An artist is generally considered
a manufacturer by the government; they have to pay sales tax for retail
sales, for instance, while selling ones labor is exempt from that (at least
here in California). If a carpenter owns his own cabinet shop, and donates a
cabinet to a non-profit, it would be valued at full market value, unless he
called it "art". There's nothing that restricts this to corporations; if
you, as an individual, donate your car to charity, you get whatever they can
sell it for as a deduction. (It used to be Blue Book value, but they changed
that...)]


Please refer me to the relevant sections in the tax law that single
out artists. As far as I am aware. the tax laws for individuals do
not allow you to deduct for donations of your own labor, whether that
is volunteer labor or labor that went into a product like a cabinet.
It has nothing to do with whether you own your own shop, or whether
you are considered a manufacturer.

Look under "Contributions You Cannot Deduct" on page A-8 of your 1040
Forms And Instructions 2008. It specifically lists "Value of your time
or services". You are allowed to deduct only expenses you incurred,
such as cost of materials. These rules apply to all individuals, and
have been this way for at least as long as I have been filing Schedule
C and other business-related tax forms (over 20 years).

It would be very interesting to find out just where the corporate
perks come into play here. Consider a corporation consisting of
assembly-line artists cranking out "starving artist originals" the
way they do in third-world countries. Could the corporation
claim market value if it donated its products? If so, then just
how small a corporation would be eligible? It only takes 3 people
to form a standard corporation, so artist's co-ops would seem
to be eligible.


[I'm afraid you just made this up, Bob. It's owner-made art that's being
discriminated against here, not individuals or non-corporate entities. Under
current law as I understand it, if the corporation is considered the author
of the art, then all it could deduct would be the cost of materials. But if
it structured itself as an "art collection corporation" and bought the work
from the artists, then it could claim fair market value if it donated it to
a non-profit.]

Andrew Werby
www.unitedartworks.com


I wasn't "making this up" I was *asking* if were the case for
corporations, because I have never looked into corporate tax law like
I have had to look into personal tax law. I had never heard that a
corporation can claim market value if it donates its products, as
you claimed in your prior post, but it sounds dodgy. If Chevy
donates a new truck, would they be able to claim list price?
I certainly doubt it.

On the other hand, they may be able to claim the cost of materials
and labor, because the corporation has to pay for the labor.
That would be fair... just as if you as an artist donate a piece
that you paid someone else to build a base for, you could donate
the cost of your expenses, including the other person's labor.

You example of the "art collection corporation" is also true for
individuals: If you buy something that you then donate, you can
claim market value. In fact, I don't think you even have to buy it,
since the IRS regulations refer to "used items", but don't stipulate
that you had to buy them. Presumably this means family heirlooms
would qualify, even without a paper trail. But deductions over
certain amounts must have appraisals.

My point is that there is nothing in the regulations (as far as I've
seen) that singles out artists. It's not "owner-made art" that's
being singled out, it is "value of time and services". It's the exact
same rule that we all have to observe.

Best regards,


Bob Masta

DAQARTA v3.50
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, FREE Signal Generator
Science with your sound card!
  #13  
Old April 21st 08, 02:13 PM posted to alt.art,rec.crafts.pottery,us.arts
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Artist should be valued

On Mar 5, 9:27*am, (Bob Masta) wrote:
On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 10:20:42 -0500, "D Kat"
wrote:







"Bob Masta" wrote in message
...
http://www.capwiz.com/artsusa/issues...521951&type=CO


Donna


As I understand it, the old "materials value only" rule applies evenly
to *everyone*, not just artists. *If you are a truck driver and agree
to drive the artist's pots to the museum, you don't get to deduct
for your time as if it were a regular paid-for delivery. *Nor does a
carpenter who agrees to crate the pieces, etc.


And it doesn't apply just to museum donations, it applies to all
donations. *It probably has to be this way to prevent abuse.
Consider the old scam whereby people donate their old books or junk
and claim a hefty market value. *If they were allowed to claim a
value for their time, it would be even harder to verify.


And art is in a class by itself as far as being hard to assign
market values. * Unless the piece has already been sold, it's not at
all clear what its value is. *Certainly *not* the price the artist has
been asking for it as it languished in the last umpteen art fairs,
nor even what the posh uptown gallery is asking.


So, if you are an artist who is affected by this, the solution is
simple: *Put your money where your mouth is and *sell* the piece, and
donate the money to the museum!


For the rest of us, the thrill of having a piece in a museum, not to
mention the boost in professional stature and the increase in the
market value of other for-sale pieces, would be more than enough
compensation.


Best regards,


Bob Masta


The problem is Bob that few artist can afford to sell the piece and donate
the money earned. *Even when they donate the piece they are not getting that
price in return in their taxes. *We are talking about a deduction not a
credit - so if you are in the 20% tax bracket then you get 20% of the
estimated value of the item taken off of your salary that is taxed - then
add in the lovely AMT which limits even that. *As far as scamming goes -
they are now pretty ridged about what they allow - you have to document your
donations and something such as this would have to be valued by the museum
not by the artist.


When I volunteer my time at the crafts studio, I would never dream of trying
to take a tax deduction for that time. *That is something very different
from a piece of art that will not only hold its value but increase in value
over time. *The museum if it needed the money could sell the work of art.

 




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