Silver Casting

Jack Schmidling wrote:

"P.W. Rowe,"

Or, you could spend a few bucks and actually buy a book.....

As I said earlier, I no longer buy books unless I can thumb through them or
know it is a book I want.


I rest my case.


If you can find a Borders or Barnes and Noble book store around
somewhere.........

"Somewhere" is a 3 hour drive.

Utter and complete Bull****! Ever heard of amazon.com? All books mentioned are
available there!


You simply didn't get it hot enough. Hard soldering a small piece onto a
larger thick piece in silver can be problematic, since silver is such a
good
heat conductor. In your case, you pretty much didn't need to be heating
the
jump ring hardly at all.....

Fact is, I gave up on the jump ring and just tried getting the solder to
flow period...
I put away the micro torch and got out the Ace Hardware propane torch,
insulated the piece from the vice with two pieces of ceramic and then gave
up.

3. Your metal wasn't clean in the first place. The flux dissolves
oxides, but
it won't help if there's grease or dirt on the joint. The metal should be
clean and bright.....

Is this a chemical clean or mechanical? Like some kind of acid or wire
brush/file clean?

Try it again.

Roger.

Spoken like a true Marine.


If you did this with a good silver solder, soldering silver wire, rather
than
solder wire, the appearance would be much better, as the solder would
visually
blend in. also, such a solder joint is strong enough that you don't need
to
drill holes. it can be a butt joint......

Hmmmm.. I like that but I need to solve the basic problem first. Assuming I
do, keeping all the butts standing while soldering seems like a monumental
problem.

No, it's a very basic goldsmithing technique. It's done, either with a "third
hand" or "freehand" with a pair of self locking tweezers. Elementary Watson,
elementary!


But as you've
discovered, and as we've been trying to tell you all along, there are
aesthetic
issues connected with Tix and other soft solders. They just don't look as
good.....


I am not at the aesthetic point yet where color match would bother me. I'm
talking about slobbering solder where I don't want it and no way to get rid
of it.

Get a book! Take a class!

--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

Jack Schmidling wrote:

"P.W. Rowe,"

I am assuming that Jack's setup does not yet include that
degree of polishing equipment......

Good assumption. It's spelled Dremmel... Dremel?.

A Dremel is a rather useless tool for polishing almost anything in a goldsmith's
workshop. It has no power. You need at least a good Dayton motor from Grainger
or better still a Baldor polishing motor.

http://tinyurl.com/4zuko

Dremel indeed.


However, here is an anecdote of how I keep trying on the cheap...

My goldsmithing teacher in Germany once told me, "I can't afford cheap tools.
They are too expensive."


Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

"Abrasive"

And what makes you even remotely think, that he was going to listen. This
man comes here for advice from professionals, gets it, and then doesn't
folow
it.

I am not sure there is any point responding to your consistantly personal
remarks but for the record, it appears that you are confusing my reaction to
your playground antics with taking advice from people who are trying to
help.

I have learned a great deal here and added much of it to my data base. I
have also wasted a lot of time with people who have no interest in
anything but being nasty. With all your expertise and knowledge, what have
you contributed to this discussion or any other for that matter. Why are
you even here? You are like the Old Troll eating billy goats when the try
to cross the bridge.

js

--
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/weekly.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com

P.W. Rowe, wrote:

On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 13:50:54 -0700, in |ô "ted.ffrater"
wrote:


Most rewarding but more time consuming.
Its a little known technique used in the darkest stygian workshops
in the Old Birminham jewellery quarter wherby you use a piece of string
to polish around work and inside holes..


Not all that "little known", Ted. Most experienced jewelers I know, use string
like that. for those holes, crevices, and other hard to reach openings, it's
not only sometimes the only way to reach and polish them, but often, people are
surprised at how fast it can work.

I've been using a piece of kangaroo leather thong for my inside
polishing. Boy is that stuff tough! I've been using the same piece for a
long time. One end is tied to the bench and it just hangs there, ready.


--


If you try to 'reply' to me without fixing the dot, your reply
will go into a 'special' mailbox reserved for spam. See below.


--
Carl West http://carl.west.home.comcast.net

change the 'DOT' to '.' to email me

"Clutter"? This is an object-rich environment.

"Lamedeer"

Sounds like you have a good handle on things. Abrasha may be able to make
a
good solder joint now and then but does not understand how he did it. That
understanding is what you are acquiring and what is needed before one can
call himself a professional. Some people on this board really do want to
help so hang in there....

Actually, I was not going to participate in the group anymore until or
unless the moderator posts my comments on the attitudes of some of the nice
folks that hang around here. Why he spiked it and allows their ridicdule
and criticism is more than I can fathom.

I don't really have a handle on soldering yet but things fell into place
with the casting and I have made some really nice pieces that I refuse to
post pictures of until or unless the nice people apologize for previous
comments or the moderator removes them from the group.

I was sort of hoping one of them would post a picture of the first piece
they cast, set with stones they faceted on a machine that they built
themselves. We might then understand why my work seems "primitive" and
causes them to vomit on their computer screens.

js


--
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com

"Jack Schmidling" wrote in message
...

I was sort of hoping one of them would post a picture of the first piece
they cast, set with stones they faceted on a machine that they built
themselves. We might then understand why my work seems "primitive" and
causes them to vomit on their computer screens.

Jewellery is art

Art is that which people purchase but which has no purpose except to exist
as art.

What have you sold for more than its scrap value?

You see, the standards are absolute, they are what a willing buyer will
pay.

--
William Black
------------------
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords
is no basis for a system of government

On Sun, 08 Aug 2004 14:32:03 +0000, Jack Schmidling wrote:

.... and I have made some really nice pieces that I refuse to
post pictures of until or unless the nice people apologize for previous
comments or the moderator removes them from the group.

Ahhhh, c'mon.
Don't take your football and go home;
all the guys in gym will start
popping your bum with their towels.

If Peter's not nicer to you
we'll send him over for the
cure at alt.sysadmin.recovery
(real, and a hoot).
--
Cheers, m

"William Black"

Jewellery is art

I happen to think that a vast amount of so-called art is garbage.

Art is that which people purchase but which has no purpose except to exist
as art.

This would imply that if Rembrandt chose not to sell his work and just
wanted to enjoy looking at it or even give it away, it would not be art.

What have you sold for more than its scrap value?

Several hundreds of millions of dollars worth of stuff. Dumb question.

Want to try again?

js

--
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com

On Sun, 08 Aug 2004 14:32:03 GMT, in rec.crafts.jewelry Jack Schmidling
wrote:

Actually, I was not going to participate in the group anymore until or
unless the moderator posts my comments on the attitudes of some of the nice
folks that hang around here. Why he spiked it and allows their ridicdule
and criticism is more than I can fathom.

Jack, I'm not sure just which posts you're referring to. and it may not have
been me moderating your recent posts, since I've been gone for the last two and a
half weeks, with the moderation duties kindly volunteered by Dr. E. Hanuman
Aspler, who's normally better known as the owner and moderator of the Ganoksin
web site and Orchid mail list. He's been free during this time, to interpret the
groups charter as he best sees fit. Either way, understand that the rules are
fairly simple. The group is intended as a discussion forum aimed at the craft of
jewelry making and related crafts, including lapidary work, business aspects of
the jewelry business, and the like. Posts are judged for inclusion or rejection
primarily upon whether they are on topic in the above regard. The group charter
also states that the group does not allow personal attacks, ie "flame wars". But
this gets into a grey area indeed, since what starts the range as helpful
constructive criticism ends as blatant attacks, and just where one ends and the
other starts can be difficult to fathom sometimes. Moderators must simply use
their best judgement in approving or rejecting a post by deciding whether the
post is possibly useful and potentially constructive, or whether it's purely a
personal attack without enough substantial imput to warrant inclusion. .
Discussion threads you've been the originator of or focus of, have rather
exceeded the usual range of emotions for this group, and I've had to reject
postings from more folks in these threads than almost any others I can recall in
the history of the group. Some of these posts have been yours, of which you are
of course aware. Those from other posters, of course, you never see. Please
don't assume you're the only one who's had posts rejected. As a general rule, I
try not to reject posts unless they give me no choice. Postings, even angry
ones, can be allowed if I feel the main commentary in the post regards the topic
of the jewelry craft. It's when the topic becomes totally personal, no longer
aimed at opinions of the craft or techniques, that I have little choice. Telling
the difference can be tricky. Someone who posts a message calling a technique
pig headed, or an attitude about some method short sighted, or stating that they
believe your aproach to a method is missing something, is still posting comments
that i can call technical comments. If they, or you, no longer address the
technical or aesthetic aspects of the craft, but focus only on the people posting
messages, then it has become totally personal, and such posts, get rejected both
on the grounds they are personal attacks, but also since they are no longer on
topic, no longer discussing the craft. As you have seen, this can be a tricky
decision for me to make, and I don't claim to get it right all the time.

All I can offer is my assurance that I do the best i can, and I'll stop it if it
seems to be getting too far out of hand, Just when that is, well, I won't know
till I see it. On the other hand, you don't seem the sort easily intimidated, so
I have some assurance that you, unlike some timid young beginning posters, are
not likely to let some of us crusty old timers scare you away from either doing
as you please, or keeping us informed of your efforts.

And understand too, that even of some posters here seem bent on criticising your
work, others may be happy to simply watch your progress, knowing that in time,
you'll end up learning, even if the hard way, much of what some have been trying
to tell you here, as well as learning your own unique tricks and methods that
will work for you, even if they may seem improper or unconventional to we
traditionalists. That is the nature of this craft, and of art. We may feel
there are best ways to do things, but in truth, you are free to do it as best
suits your needs and inclinations.


I don't really have a handle on soldering yet but things fell into place
with the casting and I have made some really nice pieces that I refuse to
post pictures of until or unless the nice people apologize for previous
comments or the moderator removes them from the group.

Feel free to post, or to not post, as you wish, don't assume it will be taken
as punishment by anyone here if you chose to retain your privacy. it's your
option. Many posters to this group have web sites where their work may be seen,
and many do not. I myself have very little of my work, and especially my best
work, posted to the web. Never needed to do it, and haven't the time anyway. I
don't consider this as punishing anyone else. Just my option.

As to removing someone from the group, that is not an option. Understand that I
dont' own this group. Nobody does. It's public domain. I serve as moderator of
the group because a majority of the group asked me to do it and I stupidly agreed
when asked, at the same time they voted to convert the group to a moderated one.
I'm just a volunteer. Now, as such, my opinions do have the effect of running
the group and dictating group policy, but nevertheless, I'm supposed to, and feel
obligated to, follow the group charter (written by group members and enacted in
that vote to convert to moderated status) in terms of how I moderate the group.
I'm allowed to pass judgment on individual postings, not on posters themselves.
There is no "black list" of posters who intend to post to this group but
misbehave. It's all on an individual post by post basis. Changes to my
moderation policies are based on group feedback. If it seems a majority of the
group's users wish the group moderated in a certain way, then I'll change those
procedures as best I can. So far, when I ask, most folks simply tell me to keep
on doing things as i've done, perhaps heaving a sigh of relief that they weren't
the one's dumb enough to agree to do this...

Peter

"Jack Schmidling" wrote in message
...

"William Black"

Jewellery is art

I happen to think that a vast amount of so-called art is garbage.

I'm not suprised.

What you think about art doesn't matter, what matters is what people pay
for.

Art is that which people purchase but which has no purpose except to
exist
as art.

This would imply that if Rembrandt chose not to sell his work and just
wanted to enjoy looking at it or even give it away, it would not be art.

It's not art until you sell it.

That's how art works, without value it is nothing but therapy.

What have you sold for more than its scrap value?

Several hundreds of millions of dollars worth of stuff. Dumb question.

Want to try again?

Nope, go back to your therapy...

--
William Black
------------------
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords
is no basis for a system of government