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How to melt a penny



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 7th 09, 06:12 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Muso
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Posts: 10
Default How to melt a penny

This proceedure will work for all U.S. pennies which were minted after
1982, and also for those 1982 pennies which will show zinc when scored
on their edge with a single light stroke of a flat, fine-toothed file.

First, score the penny on the top, and, if it shows zinc, on the
bottom. Next, hold the penny in some locking forceps. Now, heat the
penny with a propane torch. No oxygen is required, and no forced air
is required. Zinc will fume easily, so don't overheat. Under the
penny, you should have put a bucket of water, which is why directions
should be read beforehand! ;-). Wear safety glasses and gloves.
Every few seconds, give the foreceps a slight whach on the edge of the
bucket. After about a minute, the zinc core will plop down into the
water with an audible sound, and then the copper shell will begin to
turn red, melt, and oxidize.

It is illegal to melt pennies. If it was not, the pennies would all
disappear, because they would be melted down by those who have no
interest in maintaining the government's penny-sized zinc-ingot
program for recreational jewelers. Support the penny!
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  #2  
Old April 7th 09, 06:18 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Peter W. Rowe[_2_]
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Posts: 115
Default How to melt a penny

On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 22:12:14 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry Muso
wrote:

It is illegal to melt pennies. If it was not, the pennies would all
disappear, because they would be melted down by those who have no
interest in maintaining the government's penny-sized zinc-ingot
program for recreational jewelers. Support the penny!


First, I'm not sure what this post had to do with jewelry, other than the word
in that last line. But whatever. If one is sufficiently bored, one can be
amused by all sorts of interesting investigations, such as how to destroy a
coin. Rolling mills are good for this too. And in these tough economic times,
melting a penny for your evening's entertainment is cheaper than going out to
dinner and a movie. Getting your date to share your enthousiasm might be a
problem, but at least one is saving money. In sort of a money destroying way.
Interesting irony there. Oh, and don't try this method with those world war 2
vintage irony pennies. You'd need more than a propane torch to melt that irony.
(grin.)

However, one point of contention. The zinc cored penny was developed because
copper prices had gone up enough so there was more than a penny's worth of
copper in the coin, thus creating the temptation to melt em. So far as I know,
the cost of the zinc in the current penny is still not yet a penny's worth, so
there's no strong incentive to melt the things down, other than simply the
thrill of melting something... correct me if I'm wrong, of course. But zinc
is still pretty cheap, and you can make a LOT of pennies from a pound of zinc...

Peter
  #3  
Old April 8th 09, 06:05 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Abrasha
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Posts: 298
Default How to melt a penny

Muso wrote:


It is illegal to melt pennies.


So, why are you going out of your way to explain how to melt a penny?

BTW, your method results in a zinc contaminated copper melt, unsuitable
for use in gold alloys.

--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com
  #4  
Old April 9th 09, 10:00 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Carl 1 Lucky Texan
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Posts: 57
Default How to melt a penny

Abrasha wrote:
Muso wrote:

It is illegal to melt pennies.


So, why are you going out of your way to explain how to melt a penny?

BTW, your method results in a zinc contaminated copper melt, unsuitable
for use in gold alloys.


Well, while I cannot vouch for anyone's manipulation of US coins (and
more particularly paper currency) it's my understanding that melting,
stretching, cutting,soldering, etc. would only be illegal if it were
proven to be for 'fraudulent' purposes. Of course, it doesn't mean you
couldn't get arrested, held or otherwise inconvenienced. But i doubt
melting any of our coins is illegal.

Now making a mold and CASTING them........yeah, that's probably going to
get you put in PMITA prison.


Carl
  #5  
Old April 10th 09, 03:25 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Muso
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Posts: 10
Default How to melt a penny

On Apr 6, 10:18*pm, Peter W. Rowe
wrote:
On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 22:12:14 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry Muso

wrote:
It is illegal to melt pennies. *If it was not, the pennies would all
disappear, because they would be melted down by those who have no
interest in maintaining the government's penny-sized zinc-ingot
program for recreational jewelers. *Support the penny!


First, I'm not sure what this post had to do with jewelry


Hello Peter,

and thank you for keeping such a high signal-to-noise ratio with this
group. Well, as you have pointed out, zinc is an "irony" metal, and
although jewelers are known for working precious metals, they also are
no strangers to iron. For example, jeweler's anvils are best made of
steel, although iron and zinc can be considered as substitutes,
especially among those of us who are keen on making our own tools.
Jeweler's vices and jeweler's lathes also come to mind here, as well
as a long list of other tools which are specifically made for the
jeweler.

, other than the word
in that last line. *But whatever. *If one is sufficiently bored, one can be
amused by all sorts of interesting investigations, such as how to destroy a
coin. *Rolling mills are good for this too. *And in these tough economic times,
melting a penny for your evening's entertainment is cheaper than going out to
dinner and a movie. * Getting your date to share your enthousiasm might be a
problem, but at least one is saving money. *In sort of a money destroying way.
Interesting irony there. * Oh, and don't try this method with those world war 2
vintage irony pennies. *You'd need more than a propane torch to melt that irony.
(grin.)

However, one point of contention. *The zinc cored penny was developed because
copper prices had gone up enough so there was more than a penny's worth of
copper in the coin, thus creating the temptation to melt em. *So far as I know,
the cost of the zinc in the current penny is still not yet a penny's worth, *so
there's no strong incentive to melt the things down, other than simply the
thrill of melting something... * correct me if I'm wrong, of course. *But zinc
is still pretty cheap, and you can make a LOT of pennies from a pound of zinc...

Peter


Yes, Peter, in fact, a person can make more than one-hundred and
eighty pennys from a pound of zinc. So far, though, I have not found
anyone except the government who makes zink pieces in penny sizes.
And, of course, with pennys, there is no paying for shipping, waiting
for shipping, and so on. This gives the government ingots the edge.
You are correct about the reason why the government began making zinc
pennys. However, it was evidently just recently that the government
outlawed the melting of zinc pennys for the same reason. This, in
itself, indicates the competitive nature of the government's coins as
a casting medium.

Cheers,

Mike
  #6  
Old April 10th 09, 03:52 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Peter W. Rowe[_2_]
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Posts: 115
Default How to melt a penny

On Thu, 09 Apr 2009 19:25:09 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry Muso
wrote:


Hello Peter,

and thank you for keeping such a high signal-to-noise ratio with this
group. Well, as you have pointed out, zinc is an "irony" metal, and
although jewelers are known for working precious metals, they also are
no strangers to iron. For example, jeweler's anvils are best made of
steel, although iron and zinc can be considered as substitutes,


Iron makes a good anvil. Zinc, however, makes cheap trinkets in die cast molds,
not quality tools, especially not ones needing some strength. There ARE, of
course, some more complex zinc based alloys that have better properties, but
pennies are not such an alloy. Costume jewelry is sometimes made of plated
"white metal", which may often be a zinc based alloy for the cheaper stuff, or a
tin based one (pewter) for better quality.

My reference to irony was not to imply any great similarity between zinc and
iron. There isn't, at least not in practical terms.

And more to the point, you've not yet explained why anyone would wish to melt
pennies for the zinc in them. As Abrasha pointed out, it's a poor way of
getting zinc, since what you'd get would be an indeterminate mix of zinc and
copper, plus the various impurities introduced from the higher than normal
melting temperature needed to break down the penny, plus the higher than usual
percentage of absorbed gasses, oxides, etc, due to torch melting such a small
amount of the stuff.

The notion that pennies are a good source of tiny zinc ingots is silly. Buy a
bit of zinc, and use what you wish. It need not be in ingots. You can get it
granulated, or if in more solid stock form, clip off what you need. Simple, and
can give you a purity you'd actually wish to use in, for example, alloying.
Pennies are a poor way to add zinc to an alloy anyway, since at least in terms
of jewelry alloys, you're usually adding it to much higher melting point metals.
The best way to do that is with an intermediate "master" alloy, usually
something like an alloy of copper and zinc. You can get quite pure brass with a
known ratio of zinc to copper, and this is a good way to introduce additional
zinc into an alloy. Yes, you must also take the copper in the brass into
consideration, but that's just a bit of simple math. Even if you need to spend
a few more moments getting the needed ingredients together to alloy what you
wish, your end results will be better. Zinc cored pennies are a poor way to
get a good alloy.

especially among those of us who are keen on making our own tools.
Jeweler's vices and jeweler's lathes also come to mind here, as well
as a long list of other tools which are specifically made for the
jeweler.


None of which normally are made of zinc. Well, maybe some things like
non-marring inserts for vise jaws, or the like. But normally, even then, zinc
isn't the common choice of metal to use.


Yes, Peter, in fact, a person can make more than one-hundred and
eighty pennys from a pound of zinc. So far, though, I have not found
anyone except the government who makes zink pieces in penny sizes.


You haven't yet said just why you need them. And why this impure and imprecise
method is acceptable...

And, of course, with pennys, there is no paying for shipping, waiting
for shipping, and so on.


No, but for your penny, you've paid far more than the value of the zinc. Do it
right. Find any decent metals supplier or lab chemicals supplier or whatever.
Buy yourself a pound of zinc granules, or whatever other form you find easy to
use. Be set for life.

This gives the government ingots the edge.
You are correct about the reason why the government began making zinc
pennys. However, it was evidently just recently that the government
outlawed the melting of zinc pennys for the same reason. This, in
itself, indicates the competitive nature of the government's coins as
a casting medium.


Either that, or they're trying to be benevolant, protecting people from the
temptation of using their pennies for a purpose for which they're not well
suited, thus protectiong consumers from potentially flawed and inferior
products, and helping to maintain the high quality of U.S. made products by
making it more likely that the proper materials are used.

Face it. coins are simply not intended, nor especially good for, casting
purposes. The main exception to that might be using pure gold bullion coins
like Canadian Maple leafs, or the like, as the source for gold with which to
alloy your jewelry alloys. But even that is more expensive than buying pure
gold casting grain.

The whole topic, though, reminds me of a story I heard years ago, from a refiner
and metalurgist I was using then (now long retired). He'd been hired to help a
major jewelry manufacturer try to track down why they were having occasional
problems with their merchandise ending up under karat. It was driving them
nuts. They were buying high quality new alloy from reputable suppliers. Most
of their castings were fine. But occasionally a batch would come out just
enough under karat it would have to be totally scrapped. Eventually it was
traced to the casting department. The normal casting guy was doing things
right. But on his days off, two other fellows would fill in. One was this old
timer who'd been there forever, and pretty much knew it all, or so his
reputation went. My friend happened to be there watching the casting process
while he was doing a batch. The gold went into the melting furnace. Melted
just fine. Just before pouring, the old fellow reached into his pocket, pulled
out a penny, and tossed it in "for luck". When questioned, he said he felt that
the little extra bit of copper and zinc in the penny led to less porosity or
something (maybe even true with the old traditonal non-deoxidized alloys he'd
learned with way back). Problem solved. It had never occurred to him, due to
the size of the melt (several ounces at least) that his addition to an otherwise
very precise alloy was enough to lower the karat below legal standards. Now, I
heard this story second hand from my refiner, and I have no idea if it was
actually true, or just a nice illutration of how product quality can be affected
by things you'd never expect to look for. But it does nicely illustrate one
reason why pennies might not be the best thing to add to your gold alloy...

Peter
  #7  
Old April 10th 09, 08:40 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
ted frater
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Posts: 133
Default How to melt a penny

Carl 1 Lucky Texan wrote:
Abrasha wrote:
Muso wrote:

It is illegal to melt pennies.

So, why are you going out of your way to explain how to melt a penny?

BTW, your method results in a zinc contaminated copper melt, unsuitable
for use in gold alloys.


Well, while I cannot vouch for anyone's manipulation of US coins (and
more particularly paper currency) it's my understanding that melting,
stretching, cutting,soldering, etc. would only be illegal if it were
proven to be for 'fraudulent' purposes. Of course, it doesn't mean you
couldn't get arrested, held or otherwise inconvenienced. But i doubt
melting any of our coins is illegal.

Now making a mold and CASTING them........yeah, that's probably going to
get you put in PMITA prison.


Carl

Talking of faking coinage of the realm, a lot of that goes on .
Our local post office, regularly gets lead 1 pound coins brass plated.
Obviously made by someone in his dinner time at a brass plating works,
in the Midlands. UK.
As to making real fakes, there not cast of course, there minted between
dies.
Thats easy , if you have all the right minting machinery.
I get asked to do that quite often, however, it doesnt add up.
It costs over £2.00 to make a £1.00 coin.
Then theres the die costs.
IF you could get your art modeller to make the resin negatives, then
get you die maker to cut the dies then get them hardened, there are too
many folk in this production chain to be paid to keep quiet, and /or
who want protection money!!.
Then if you went to any shop with 100 coin to pay for something paying
in all coin looks suspicious.
What does go on is making fake medieval coin. There put in a tray of old
coin at coin and medal fairs and the unsuspecting collector will "find"
it andask how much. that way you might get say £3.00 for a brass fathing
It still doesnt cover the overall costs of doing it.
There was a fashion many yrs ago of putting half sovereign coins in rings.
These were made in copper gold plated. Usually worn by gypsyfolk or
travellers.
To make it pay printing money is probably the way to go.
A friend and I at a fair offered a genuine £5.00 note for £4.00.
It was on offer ALL day!! hundredsof folk looked at it
and it didnt sell. We had a lot of fun with that.
Eventually it did sell to a sharp business man who saw what we were doing.
We let it go of course.
Have a nice Easter.
Ted
Dorset
UK.





  #8  
Old April 12th 09, 06:37 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Limpy[_2_]
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Posts: 11
Default How to melt a penny

In the magical world of this newsgroup called rec.crafts.jewelry on
Thu, 09 Apr 2009 19:52:10 -0700 we were all amazed to see Peter W.
Rowe write:

On Thu, 09 Apr 2009 19:25:09 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry Muso
wrote:


Hello Peter,

and thank you for keeping such a high signal-to-noise ratio with this
group. Well, as you have pointed out, zinc is an "irony" metal, and
although jewelers are known for working precious metals, they also are
no strangers to iron.


snip

And more to the point, you've not yet explained why anyone would wish to melt
pennies for the zinc in them.


Peter,
I think he explained everything quite well.
He's obviously somewhat ****ed off at our (US) government for various
and sundry justifiable reasons, not least of which is the fact that it
makes it a crime to melt the useless penny, made useless I might add
by the hidden tax of inflation.

In these days of modern times, when you can't tell the AC's from the
DC's aren't we all yearning for someone who can turn on a little
stopping power? Don't you think I mean a smoky glass, a lightening rod
with which to chase the spooks away?

The posting was humorous.
Y'all need to lighten up a bit.


  #9  
Old April 12th 09, 06:48 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Peter W. Rowe[_2_]
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Posts: 115
Default How to melt a penny

On Sun, 12 Apr 2009 10:37:59 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry Limpy
wrote:


Peter,
I think he explained everything quite well.
He's obviously somewhat ****ed off at our (US) government for various
and sundry justifiable reasons, not least of which is the fact that it
makes it a crime to melt the useless penny


And well it should be. If everyone were to spend much time melting pennies, the
extra propane burned to do so would quickly add way too much to the already
significant greenhouse gasses around, and, combined with the heating effect of
that, already, those propane flames melting pennies could quickly melt the polar
ice caps into steaming cups of salty tea, thus totally flooding New York with
sea level rise.

Wait a minute. That means flooding Wall Street, doesn't it.

OK, melt those pennies, guys.

, made useless I might add
by the hidden tax of inflation.


Um, if they're so useless, and you don't want them, in the event you don't want
to bother melting them, perhaps you could send your extras to me. I could use
em for next months mortgage payment if you all send enough of em.

In these days of modern times, when you can't tell the AC's from the
DC's aren't we all yearning for someone who can turn on a little
stopping power? Don't you think I mean a smoky glass, a lightening rod
with which to chase the spooks away?


I have no trouble telling AC from DC. Hook up to a plating tank or anodizer. If
it works as it should, it's DC. If it just gets hot, then it can't make up it's
mind. (AC).

And smoky glass is not such a good idea. If those modern times get ****ed, and
hit back, the glass breaks into leetle sharp bits. Not good for the tires or
feetsies. Stick with the lightening rods. They're good for double duty as
spears, once civilization (and thus grocery stores) collapses due to excess
melting of pennies, and we have to go back to hunting our own food an all...


The posting was humorous.
Y'all need to lighten up a bit.


I do indeed need to loose some weight, it's true. Carrying all your extra
pennies around after you send em to me *unmelted, please) will be good exercise,
and might help. Thanks in advance.

Peter

  #10  
Old April 12th 09, 06:52 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Peter W. Rowe[_2_]
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Posts: 115
Default How to melt a penny

On Sun, 12 Apr 2009 10:37:59 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry Limpy
wrote:


Hello Peter,

.... snip.

Oh, and "limpy", regarding that name of yours.
You have my heartfelt sympathy. You know, they have drugs for that, now...

P

Sorry. Off topic, I know.

 




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