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Asbestos-Followup



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 29th 08, 09:06 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
[email protected]
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Posts: 13
Default Asbestos-Followup

Well some kind soul from some jewelry list was kind enough to send me
some asbestos powder. It arrived in the post today & I can't wait to
start using it!
In case anyone was wondering.

Don't Taze Me Frosty!
Ads
  #2  
Old January 30th 08, 06:56 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Andrew Werby
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default Asbestos-Followup


wrote in message
...
Well some kind soul from some jewelry list was kind enough to send me
some asbestos powder. It arrived in the post today & I can't wait to
start using it!
In case anyone was wondering.

Don't Taze Me Frosty!


[What do you need it for? Most former asbestos applications use substiutions
now, using safer constituents. I'm not sure the "kind soul" did you any
favor here. Asbestos particles settle deep in the lungs, where they cause
irreversible damage, up to and including cancer. And it's not a matter of
dosage - a single microfiber can get a tumor started. Spread asbestos around
your place, and it will take a major cleanup effort (lots of guys in paper
suits with breathing apparatus) to get rid of it even partially. But maybe
you can apply to be a Superfund site...]

Andrew Werby
www.unitedartworks.com




  #3  
Old January 31st 08, 06:33 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
[email protected]
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Posts: 13
Default Asbestos-Followup

In rec.crafts.jewelry on or about Tue, 29 Jan 2008 21:56:15 -0800 we
heard the sounds of a voice named "Andrew Werby"
crying out from afar, saying:


wrote in message
.. .
Well some kind soul from some jewelry list was kind enough to send me
some asbestos powder. It arrived in the post today & I can't wait to
start using it!
In case anyone was wondering.

Don't Taze Me Frosty!


[What do you need it for? Most former asbestos applications use substiutions
now, using safer constituents. I'm not sure the "kind soul" did you any
favor here. Asbestos particles settle deep in the lungs, where they cause
irreversible damage, up to and including cancer. And it's not a matter of
dosage - a single microfiber can get a tumor started. Spread asbestos around
your place, and it will take a major cleanup effort (lots of guys in paper
suits with breathing apparatus) to get rid of it even partially. But maybe
you can apply to be a Superfund site...]

Andrew Werby
www.unitedartworks.com


I guess you missed the huge debate about this some time back.
That's ok, Andrew.
So would you mind terribly posting your sources that show, "a single
microfiber can get a tumor started." I'd be very interested.

Of course, it could be the same source that states that a single
exposure to second hand smoke can cause cancer. The operative word in
all this I think is "can". But I don't even believe that.
I don't believe it can.

Yes, there are alternatives to MOST applications. (Funny word, 'most'.
It doesn't mean 'all'.)
Asbestos is far and away the very best heat sink/stone protector bar
none.
I'll tell you what, I'll put a pile of dry asbestos in my hand and
point a lit oxy/ace torch at it for 5 minutes. You use the substance
of your choice in your hand. Whatcha gonna use?

But anyway, I don't use it dry. And I don't use it much. But there are
times when nothing else will suffice.
And I don't put it into a bag and huff it or toss it into the air.

I'll bet you don't use cyanide anymore either.





  #4  
Old February 1st 08, 07:20 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Andrew Werby
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default Asbestos-Followup




I guess you missed the huge debate about this some time back.
That's ok, Andrew.


[What, here in Rec.Crafts.Jewelry?]

So would you mind terribly posting your sources that show, "a single
microfiber can get a tumor started." I'd be very interested.


[Well, I didn't make it up. Here's a reference:
"We work under the assumption that there is no safe level of asbestos
exposure. Asbestos is like a time bomb. Once you've been exposed, you don't
know how your body will respond over time. Our goal is to determine whether
there is asbestos in these products and then minimize the exposure,"
McDermott says.

With most toxic materials, it may take multiple exposures before a dangerous
level of exposure is reached. But asbestos has the capability to cause
irreversible harm with just a single exposure.

The NIOSH doctors agree, saying a single fiber deeply embedding itself in
the right place in the lung could be all it takes to develop mesothelioma."
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/uncivilaction/epa14.shtml

I don't think they're saying that everybody who inhales a single fiber of
asbestos is going to get cancer; it's pretty evident that there is a
relation between the amount of exposure and the likelihood of developing
mesothelioma. The lungs have their defense mechanisms, and that single
wayward fiber has to sidestep them in order to find a place it can start
developing a cancer. But every time you expose yourself, you're rolling the
dice...]

Of course, it could be the same source that states that a single
exposure to second hand smoke can cause cancer. The operative word in
all this I think is "can". But I don't even believe that.
I don't believe it can.


[That's an opinion that I'm not familiar with. Got a source for it, or is
this just a "straw man"?]

Yes, there are alternatives to MOST applications. (Funny word, 'most'.
It doesn't mean 'all'.)
Asbestos is far and away the very best heat sink/stone protector bar
none.
I'll tell you what, I'll put a pile of dry asbestos in my hand and
point a lit oxy/ace torch at it for 5 minutes. You use the substance
of your choice in your hand. Whatcha gonna use?


[I'd use a silicon carbide kiln shelf. Admittedly, that's not much good for
stone protection. But that pile of dry asbestos would blow away before your
5 minutes was up (ouch!). For stones, I like submerging them in water,
leaving the part to be heated uppermost.]

But anyway, I don't use it dry. And I don't use it much. But there are
times when nothing else will suffice.
And I don't put it into a bag and huff it or toss it into the air.

I'll bet you don't use cyanide anymore either.


[I never did, but I still use silica-based jewelry investment material for
casting, even though I'm pretty sure it's dangerous. I'm experimenting with
substitutes, though - I'll let you know how it goes...]



Andrew Werby

www.computersculpture.com



wrote in message
...
In rec.crafts.jewelry on or about Tue, 29 Jan 2008 21:56:15 -0800 we
heard the sounds of a voice named "Andrew Werby"
crying out from afar, saying:


wrote in message
. ..
Well some kind soul from some jewelry list was kind enough to send me
some asbestos powder. It arrived in the post today & I can't wait to
start using it!
In case anyone was wondering.

Don't Taze Me Frosty!


[What do you need it for? Most former asbestos applications use
substiutions
now, using safer constituents. I'm not sure the "kind soul" did you any
favor here. Asbestos particles settle deep in the lungs, where they cause
irreversible damage, up to and including cancer. And it's not a matter of
dosage - a single microfiber can get a tumor started. Spread asbestos
around
your place, and it will take a major cleanup effort (lots of guys in paper
suits with breathing apparatus) to get rid of it even partially. But maybe
you can apply to be a Superfund site...]

Andrew Werby
www.unitedartworks.com











  #5  
Old February 1st 08, 06:40 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default Asbestos-Followup

In rec.crafts.jewelry on or about Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:20:49 -0800 we
heard the sounds of a voice named "Andrew Werby"
crying out from afar, saying:




I guess you missed the huge debate about this some time back.
That's ok, Andrew.


[What, here in Rec.Crafts.Jewelry?]


Yep.


So would you mind terribly posting your sources that show, "a single
microfiber can get a tumor started." I'd be very interested.


[Well, I didn't make it up. Here's a reference:
"We work under the assumption that there is no safe level of asbestos
exposure. Asbestos is like a time bomb. Once you've been exposed, you don't
know how your body will respond over time. Our goal is to determine whether
there is asbestos in these products and then minimize the exposure,"
McDermott says.


I read it. McDermott works for the EPA, a fed gov agency. Hardly a
reliable source.
Their goal is to regulate, regulate, regulate and fine, fine, fine.
I don't believe they give a rats rear end one way or the other.


With most toxic materials, it may take multiple exposures before a dangerous
level of exposure is reached. But asbestos has the capability to cause
irreversible harm with just a single exposure.


How many jewelers have you heard about dying from cancer, especially
of the throat and lung? Most, I believe, from grinding stone, either
tweaking turq or other precious/colored/semi-precious stone whilst
setting or those damned "heatless" Mizzy wheels. And maybe rubber
wheels too.

The NIOSH doctors agree, saying a single fiber deeply embedding itself in
the right place in the lung could be all it takes to develop mesothelioma."
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/uncivilaction/epa14.shtml


Sounds like the "just one time having sex without a rubber and 30
years later you'll get AIDS" crowd.

I don't think they're saying that everybody who inhales a single fiber of
asbestos is going to get cancer; it's pretty evident that there is a
relation between the amount of exposure and the likelihood of developing
mesothelioma. The lungs have their defense mechanisms, and that single
wayward fiber has to sidestep them in order to find a place it can start
developing a cancer. But every time you expose yourself, you're rolling the
dice...]


Like driving or crossing the street.


Of course, it could be the same source that states that a single
exposure to second hand smoke can cause cancer. The operative word in
all this I think is "can". But I don't even believe that.
I don't believe it can.


[That's an opinion that I'm not familiar with. Got a source for it, or is
this just a "straw man"?]


"The current Surgeon Generals Report states that there is no risk-free
level of secondhand smoke exposure."
http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=39857

I would have to say, and please feel free to quote me in any other
debates you choose, that there are no risk-free levels of anything.
Life is not risk-free and its a scared and unhappy person who lives
their lives in fear of risk.


Yes, there are alternatives to MOST applications. (Funny word, 'most'.
It doesn't mean 'all'.)
Asbestos is far and away the very best heat sink/stone protector bar
none.
I'll tell you what, I'll put a pile of dry asbestos in my hand and
point a lit oxy/ace torch at it for 5 minutes. You use the substance
of your choice in your hand. Whatcha gonna use?


[I'd use a silicon carbide kiln shelf. Admittedly, that's not much good for
stone protection. But that pile of dry asbestos would blow away before your
5 minutes was up (ouch!). For stones, I like submerging them in water,
leaving the part to be heated uppermost.]


That's swell if you're going to use a reducing flame of oxy/ace to
size a turquoise & silver ring, but here in the fast paced and
exciting world of "ain't got time for all that fancy bull**** and
gotta get all these repairs done" I ain't got time for all that. I
gotta get all these repairs done!


But anyway, I don't use it dry. And I don't use it much. But there are
times when nothing else will suffice.
And I don't put it into a bag and huff it or toss it into the air.

I'll bet you don't use cyanide anymore either.


[I never did, but I still use silica-based jewelry investment material for
casting, even though I'm pretty sure it's dangerous. I'm experimenting with
substitutes, though - I'll let you know how it goes...]


Oooo yeah, just one exposure....

Sincerely



Andrew Werby

www.computersculpture.com



wrote in message
.. .
In rec.crafts.jewelry on or about Tue, 29 Jan 2008 21:56:15 -0800 we
heard the sounds of a voice named "Andrew Werby"
crying out from afar, saying:


wrote in message
...
Well some kind soul from some jewelry list was kind enough to send me
some asbestos powder. It arrived in the post today & I can't wait to
start using it!
In case anyone was wondering.

Don't Taze Me Frosty!

[What do you need it for? Most former asbestos applications use
substiutions
now, using safer constituents. I'm not sure the "kind soul" did you any
favor here. Asbestos particles settle deep in the lungs, where they cause
irreversible damage, up to and including cancer. And it's not a matter of
dosage - a single microfiber can get a tumor started. Spread asbestos
around
your place, and it will take a major cleanup effort (lots of guys in paper
suits with breathing apparatus) to get rid of it even partially. But maybe
you can apply to be a Superfund site...]

Andrew Werby
www.unitedartworks.com











  #7  
Old February 2nd 08, 06:56 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Peter W.. Rowe,
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 355
Default Asbestos-Followup

On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 09:40:54 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry
wrote:

How many jewelers have you heard about dying from cancer, especially
of the throat and lung?


I've known several jewelers who died from lung cancer or other lung disease. One
was a non-smoker who died from a lung cancer which may or may not have been due
to asbestos. I was never told the exact type of cancer, only that it was lung
cancer probably related to his profession. Another guy I knew was a ceramicist,
not a jeweler, who'd for years mixed up his own clay bodies. Did a lot of work
with porcelains, and various weird glazes. I do know what he died of.
Silicosis. (pay attention to ventillation and proper masks if you work with a
lot of casting investment. Same stuff in there...) And then there's the well
known jeweler, the late professor Phillip Fike, who I'm honored to say I got to
know pretty well during the last ten years or so of his life. Emphysema got
him. Wasn't pretty. Just exactly what did that, who knows. Maybe the various
noxious fumes from mixing up Niello? Even he wasn't sure. But it's likely it
was something related to his life with metalworking. And I also know one nice
young lady who, before the age of 30, had to give up her career as a bench
jeweler when her lung function dropped to something like 25 percent or something
like that. She said it had something to do with her bench being right next to
the plating stations, and thought it was probably acid fumes from the Rhodium
bath that had done the damage. Don't know if that's right, but a good whiff of
the rhodium when it's fizzing away during plating can be pretty nasty...

My take on all this is simply that there are many opportunities in jewelry and
metalwork in which to be too careless with ones lungs and ignore proper
ventillation or outer precautions. I'd guess that all these various challenges
are cumulative and additive. If any one thing causes a little damage, then your
lungs are less able to fend off the next challenge from something else. It all
can add up.

So please, folks, don't be too cavalier with safety.

But at the same time, don't be too paranoid. Most materials have some means by
which they can be safely used if you are properly equipped, and that means not
only the right tools and equipment, but full knowledge of the materials too.
Asbestos is a material that really should not be inhaled. That's pretty simple
to understand. Careful use with the stuff kept wet, can prevent the
possibility. Other materials also have means by which they can be used with
safety, even when they offer serious risks when abused.

Educate yourselves as to the risks, and if there are reasonable less risky
alternatives, then it makes simple good sense to avoid the risks.

Cheers

Peter Rowe
  #8  
Old February 2nd 08, 10:11 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default Asbestos-Followup

In rec.crafts.jewelry on or about Fri, 01 Feb 2008 21:42:17 -0800 we
heard the sounds of a voice named mbstevens
crying out from afar, saying:

wrote:
In rec.crafts.jewelry on or about Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:20:49 -0800 we
heard the sounds of a voice named "Andrew Werby"


snip flame war about asbestos


Sorry. I didn't mean to be flamin'. Ask anyone, I can be rather brash.
But I'm really a nice little fuzzball deep down..

I suspect that the thing that really kills jewelers,
along with other sedentary workers, is not taking
time for proper exercise. But in the nonce
I can get along perfectly with asbestos substitutes.
Some of the new ceramics really do reflect and/or insulate the heat. My ceramic
soldering pads work really well. I have one that is like rolled paper, another
that is a slab with little holes through it. If it's burning your hands that
worries you, there are lots of commercial gloves that are good for that.


I actually use heatsinks as little as possible, preferring to remove
stones if I can (and I get to charge more for the jobs too.)


(BTW, ..Taze.., that is one irritating website.
Kinda funny, though.)


You shoulda seen it before I took off all the scripts!
It was beyond irritating! But I had some putz report me to *HIS* ISP
for allegedly deleting his autoexec.bat file in XP...neat trick, huh?
LOL but anyway I figured if there was one paranoid dolt out there,
there were probably more and I didn't wanna ruffle their feathers too
much.

I hope all you Brits liked the penny.



  #9  
Old February 24th 08, 07:52 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
granpaw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Asbestos-Followup

Excuse me, is this NISOH one of the organizations that showed how safe DDT
was back in the forties by spraying it over people while they were eating?
Or was that some other Government agency concerned about our welfare?
Yeah I'll trust them...(yeah right).

granpaw

"Andrew Werby" wrote in
:

snip
The NIOSH doctors agree, saying a single fiber deeply embedding itself
in the right place in the lung could be all it takes to develop
mesothelioma." http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/uncivilaction/epa14.shtml
snip


 




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