using copper & brass in jewellery

I'm thinking about using some copper and/or brass as part of some of my
silver jewellery. (I know this gives hallmarking problems here in the UK but
I'm not concerned with that in this posting.) It has occurred to me that
there may well be problems with discolouring skin on contact and also
tarnish on the copper or brass, I will probably want a polished finish.
Any thoughts or advice as to how this might be avoided or minimised would be
appreciated,

regards - Kendall

On Tue, 24 May 2005 00:44:46 +0000, Kendall Davies wrote:

I'm thinking about using some copper and/or brass as part of some of my
silver jewellery. (I know this gives hallmarking problems here in the UK but
I'm not concerned with that in this posting.) It has occurred to me that
there may well be problems with discolouring skin on contact and also
tarnish on the copper or brass, I will probably want a polished finish.
Any thoughts or advice as to how this might be avoided or minimised would be
appreciated,

I would only use copper on something that does not touch skin.
It will be a special collector, indeed, that thinks
having a green wrist or finger is OK.

Many well known art jewelers have used
copper and brass (and bronze) on brooches and pins.
The only way to keep a polished finish on copper is to coat it,
and that's liable to wear off. Clear epoxy coatings will last longest.
You might consider patination or natural darkening as well --
why fight the materials' tendencies when you can use the dark color
as a design element to contrast with bright metals?
--
mbstevens http://www.mbstevens.com

On Tue, 24 May 2005 03:00:50 GMT, mbstevens
wrote:

On Tue, 24 May 2005 00:44:46 +0000, Kendall Davies wrote:

I'm thinking about using some copper and/or brass as part of some of my
silver jewellery. (I know this gives hallmarking problems here in the UK but
I'm not concerned with that in this posting.) It has occurred to me that
there may well be problems with discolouring skin on contact and also
tarnish on the copper or brass, I will probably want a polished finish.
Any thoughts or advice as to how this might be avoided or minimised would be
appreciated,

I would only use copper on something that does not touch skin.
It will be a special collector, indeed, that thinks
having a green wrist or finger is OK.

Copper doesn't turn colors on me, although copper earwires will
irritate my earholes.

--
Marilee J. Layman

On Wed, 25 May 2005 02:06:09 +0000, Marilee J. Layman wrote:

I would only use copper on something that does not touch skin.
It will be a special collector, indeed, that thinks
having a green wrist or finger is OK.

Copper doesn't turn colors on me, although copper earwires will
irritate my earholes.


I think it must happen more in hot
weather -- sweat can speed it up a lot.
Its pH must also has something
to do with it.

Marilee J. Layman wrote:
On Tue, 24 May 2005 03:00:50 GMT, mbstevens
wrote:


On Tue, 24 May 2005 00:44:46 +0000, Kendall Davies wrote:


I'm thinking about using some copper and/or brass as part of some of my
silver jewellery. (I know this gives hallmarking problems here in the UK but
I'm not concerned with that in this posting.) It has occurred to me that
there may well be problems with discolouring skin on contact and also
tarnish on the copper or brass, I will probably want a polished finish.
Any thoughts or advice as to how this might be avoided or minimised would be
appreciated,

I would only use copper on something that does not touch skin.
It will be a special collector, indeed, that thinks
having a green wrist or finger is OK.


Copper doesn't turn colors on me, although copper earwires will
irritate my earhole
Hi Marilee,
Just seen your post.
Ive made lots of jewellery using mixed metals including copper and brass.
Both are honest materials in their own right.
however for jewellery use, in contact with the skin in hot and humid
conditions the salt in perspiration does as you say react with the base
metals to produce the copper sulphate etc.
Now if you want to avoid customer problems you have to line your base
metal work with silver, preferably fine.
Its extra work but well worth it.
for example ive lined fully circular rings and bracelets with silver
by making a 1/4in wide butt joined( soldered) band a tight fit inside
the ring or bangle, then swaging the silver into a half round shape to
fit the inside circular section.( the section is the shape if you cut
across the bangle)
If the bangle is half round in section then the silver edges are upset
each side of the flat by say 1/16th in. it locks in place and doesnt
move.. I have seen them some 20 years later they still looked and
worked fine for the customer apart from the scratches people get on
their jewellery.
What you will find if you mix for example silver with copper and or
brass in a finger ring. It looks fine but over time say 10 to 15 yrs the
copper and brass will erode away by elecrolytic action, again the salt
in perspiration acts as the electrolyte and the silver will stay just fine.
you should be able to make say 25 0f these in a day and sell at a flea
market for £5 each. well worth the time and effort.
Hope this is of some help to you.

On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 14:46:48 GMT, Ted Frater
wrote:

Marilee J. Layman wrote:
On Tue, 24 May 2005 03:00:50 GMT, mbstevens
wrote:


On Tue, 24 May 2005 00:44:46 +0000, Kendall Davies wrote:


I'm thinking about using some copper and/or brass as part of some of my
silver jewellery. (I know this gives hallmarking problems here in the UK but
I'm not concerned with that in this posting.) It has occurred to me that
there may well be problems with discolouring skin on contact and also
tarnish on the copper or brass, I will probably want a polished finish.
Any thoughts or advice as to how this might be avoided or minimised would be
appreciated,

I would only use copper on something that does not touch skin.
It will be a special collector, indeed, that thinks
having a green wrist or finger is OK.


Copper doesn't turn colors on me, although copper earwires will
irritate my earhole
Hi Marilee,
Just seen your post.

I think you took Kendall's post as mine. I just commented on my
personal experience with copper jewelry. (We found out recently that
my serum CO2 is always too low, which may explain why mosquitoes never
bite me. Who knows, maybe that affects jewelry, too.)

--
Marilee J. Layman

Thanks for that answer Ted, it's very useful. I was thinking of soldering a
sheet of silver to a sheet of copper or brass and going from there but I
like your method better and I'll try it first.
Regards - Kendall


"Ted Frater" wrote in message
...
Marilee J. Layman wrote:
On Tue, 24 May 2005 03:00:50 GMT, mbstevens
wrote:


On Tue, 24 May 2005 00:44:46 +0000, Kendall Davies wrote:


I'm thinking about using some copper and/or brass as part of some of my
silver jewellery. (I know this gives hallmarking problems here in the UK
but
I'm not concerned with that in this posting.) It has occurred to me that
there may well be problems with discolouring skin on contact and also
tarnish on the copper or brass, I will probably want a polished finish.
Any thoughts or advice as to how this might be avoided or minimised
would be
appreciated,

I would only use copper on something that does not touch skin.
It will be a special collector, indeed, that thinks
having a green wrist or finger is OK.


Copper doesn't turn colors on me, although copper earwires will
irritate my earhole
Hi Marilee,
Just seen your post.
Ive made lots of jewellery using mixed metals including copper and brass.
Both are honest materials in their own right.
however for jewellery use, in contact with the skin in hot and humid
conditions the salt in perspiration does as you say react with the base
metals to produce the copper sulphate etc.
Now if you want to avoid customer problems you have to line your base
metal work with silver, preferably fine.
Its extra work but well worth it.
for example ive lined fully circular rings and bracelets with silver
by making a 1/4in wide butt joined( soldered) band a tight fit inside
the ring or bangle, then swaging the silver into a half round shape to
fit the inside circular section.( the section is the shape if you cut
across the bangle)
If the bangle is half round in section then the silver edges are upset
each side of the flat by say 1/16th in. it locks in place and doesnt
move.. I have seen them some 20 years later they still looked and
worked fine for the customer apart from the scratches people get on
their jewellery.
What you will find if you mix for example silver with copper and or
brass in a finger ring. It looks fine but over time say 10 to 15 yrs the
copper and brass will erode away by elecrolytic action, again the salt
in perspiration acts as the electrolyte and the silver will stay just
fine.
you should be able to make say 25 0f these in a day and sell at a flea
market for £5 each. well worth the time and effort.
Hope this is of some help to you.

Thanks mb., I'll try that out. Do you have any suggestions about how I can
speed up patination on copper and brass?
Regards - Kendall


"mbstevens" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 24 May 2005 00:44:46 +0000, Kendall Davies wrote:

I'm thinking about using some copper and/or brass as part of some of my
silver jewellery. (I know this gives hallmarking problems here in the UK
but
I'm not concerned with that in this posting.) It has occurred to me that
there may well be problems with discolouring skin on contact and also
tarnish on the copper or brass, I will probably want a polished finish.
Any thoughts or advice as to how this might be avoided or minimised would
be
appreciated,

I would only use copper on something that does not touch skin.
It will be a special collector, indeed, that thinks
having a green wrist or finger is OK.

Many well known art jewelers have used
copper and brass (and bronze) on brooches and pins.
The only way to keep a polished finish on copper is to coat it,
and that's liable to wear off. Clear epoxy coatings will last longest.
You might consider patination or natural darkening as well --
why fight the materials' tendencies when you can use the dark color
as a design element to contrast with bright metals?
--
mbstevens http://www.mbstevens.com

Kendall Davies wrote:
Thanks mb., I'll try that out. Do you have any suggestions about how I can
speed up patination on copper and brass?
Regards - Kendall

Now there's a question that should draw some lurkers
into the light! Thousands of recipes are in the literature.
In addition to Google, have a look in Oppi Untracht's
"Jewelry Concepts and Technology" and in Hughes and
Rowe's "The Coloring, Bronzing, and Patination of Metals."
(BTW, have you any relation to this Rowe, Peter?)

According to Gelette's (questionably accurate)
biography of Picasso, he couldn't get the
color he wanted on a bronze statue.
Someone suggested that he simply urinate on it. He did so,
regularly, for several weeks. I can't remember if the
results were satisfactory to him, but it does
highlight the home-brew nature of patina recipes. ;-0
--
mbstevens
http://www.mbstevens.com

On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 22:35:17 -0700, in Ìõ mbstevens
wrote:

Hughes and
Rowe's "The Coloring, Bronzing, and Patination of Metals."
(BTW, have you any relation to this Rowe, Peter?)


Only the name that I know of. But that IS a connection. I'm told the name
originates in the town of Truro, in England, and during WW1, my grandfather
happened to be able to visit the town church (destroyed, unfortunately, during
WW2), and found in the records there, his own ancestors births, the ones who later
emigrated to the U.S. in the mid 1800s. Presumably, the Mr. Rowe (who I believe
still resides in the U.K.), who wrote that wonderfully exhaustive book, also might
trace his origins to the same area, and it's not unlikely that if one went back
far enough, we might have some common ancestors. If my info is correct, and the
name does really originate from that single location, one might make the same
statement about anyone with the name Rowe. If any readers are named Rowe, and
wish to pursue this further, I'll put you in touch with my brother, who is the one
in our family who's most extensively researched and documented our family history.
He's traced one ancestor (I don't think in the direct Rowe line, however) all the
way back to a ******* son of Charlemagne, and we do have the notes my grandfather
made in that church in Truro...

Peter