Flatware

Trumpet players are gadget crazy so there are a lot of directions pro
players are going. One is heavier and heavier equipment. Instead of
skeletonizing the mouthpiece, they make it massive and some even sell add-on
things to add to the mouthpiece (like thick washers) that add mass to it.
As to the balance, I have an extremely lightweight horn that I removed the
silver plating from leaving only the thin natural brass interior and have a
heavyweight mouthpiece, so that set up would probably be like a platinum
mouthpiece on a standard weight horn.

I have a pretty good collection of mouthpieces that screw together so I feel
good that I could get the rim and cup sections cast and then threaded in a
machine shop, but the backbore is the trick. If anyone has a computerized
lathe set up, I would really like to talk to you about turning one in
platinum.

Here is a link to a general diagram of a mouthpiece so everyone can see what
I mean by the backbore. http://www.warburton-usa.com/catalog-trumpet.htm

Here is a link to some backbore measurements:
http://iwk.mdw.ac.at/Forschung/engli...ce.htm#varback

If I find an answer to casting thin tubing, the next step is casting a
platinum trumpet. The wife is gonna hate whoever finds the answer for me!

Bill

"Abrasha" wrote in message
news
Bill Kuykendall wrote:

I have a question that might be in this same vein: I want to cast
trumpet
mouthpieces in silver, gold, and platinum. The cup area is not a problem
I
have been told, but the extended tubing section that fits into the
trumpet
has a thin wall and a delicate taper that is the problem. Is there a
creative technique or medium that would allow this to be cast?


Talk to Jack, he should have figured out by now how this is done.

Or you could talk to a trumpet maker.

http://www.trumpetguild.org/links/makers.htm (over a hundred)
http://www.goucher.edu/physics/baum/nattrump.htm

BTW, trumpets have been made for over 300 years!
http://www.usd.edu/smm/pressler3.html Yet, for some strange reason these
makers
do not cast their mouth pieces. I wonder why.

I would think that a platinum mouthpiece will throw off the balance of the
instrument in a rather extreme way.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

In case you are wondering my motivation on making the mouthpiece in silver,
here is a link to one in silver that sells for 250.00. I have a hard time
paying 250.00 for something with
"Bill Kuykendall" wrote in message
...
I have a question that might be in this same vein: I want to cast trumpet
mouthpieces in silver, gold, and platinum. The cup area is not a problem
I
have been told, but the extended tubing section that fits into the trumpet
has a thin wall and a delicate taper that is the problem. Is there a
creative technique or medium that would allow this to be cast?

If you are wondering why I keep trying to find a way to cast these, here is
a link to a sterling mouthpiece. Mine weighs 152 grams and I have a hard
time paying 250.00 for that much silver.
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/canbrass...r14a4a-st.html

"Abrasha"


Talk to Jack, he should have figured out by now how this is done.

Or you could talk to a trumpet maker.

Both good ideas. I would cast the part with an oversized tube and bore it
and turn the taper on the lathe. Too bad I didn't read this eariler, my
ensemble (which includes a trumpet player) left about an hour ago. I could
have looked at his mouthpiece. I suspect though that they are made in two
pieces and sweated or soldered together. My recollection is that they are
two different colors but could just be plating at the mouth end.

js


--
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com

Jack Schmidling wrote:

You are worse than Bush repeating the same old
mantras.

This, is now, his saving grace. :-)

--

arnold

"Abrasha"

I challenge
you to post pictures of the masterpieces you have made after investing
the
same amount of time into your learning as I have.


OK, just for fun, I'll give you just one. Take a look at this:
http://www.abrasha.com/misc/Watch%20case.htm

I made that in school, at the beginning of my second year.....

Not fair. Read the rules again. I have been doing this for two months not
years.

It was made in nickel silver, and gold plated over nickel plating. The
face was made out of
very thin ivory. I bought a commercial movement for it.

Not fair. You didn't make the movement and just bent some metal.
Furthermore, you forgot to put numbers on it. I can't even tell what time
it says.

I will bet you didn't make the band or how bout a rolling mill to make the
metal. Did you gold plate it yourself?

Frankly, if a stranger offered me my Maltese Cross and chain or your watch,
the choice would be easy. It may be a fine piece of work, I can't tell from
the picture but my digital watch is much more useful and I really get a honk
out of wearing my cross.

Next please and remember the rules.

js


--
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com













Interestingly, because of this piece I could not get a job anywhere when I
came
to the US. Whenever I went knocking on doors looking for a job, and I was
asked
what I can do, I would take this watch off my wrist and put in on the
counter or
desk in front of the person interviewing me. I would say: "I made this."

The answer invariably was: "I'm sorry, we don't have a job for you. You
are
overqualified for our needs."

I asked acquaintances, what "overqualified" means, and was told that it
meant
that I was too expensive. ****, I would have worked for a dollar an hour
back
then.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

"Heinrich Butschal"

there must be some Problems with the mixture of Your sand. Probably is
is too wet or contains too much oil.

I use a commercial product called Petrobond that is premixed with some kind
of oil and is pretty reliable stuff.

My last attempt I inverted it and feed into the lip of the cup. It filled
about 90% and the place where it did not fill was opposite the side from the
sprue. So if I could figure out a way to pour two sprues at the same time,
it would work but it would get pretty complicated and I would have to make a
bigger flask or have my wife pour .... naw forget it.

I'm ready to stand pounding.

js


--
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com

Bill Kuykendall wrote:

Silver is one of the more popular special order metals to use in mouthpieces
and you see a lot of gold-plated mouthpieces. I suspect solid gold and
platinum aren't used simply because of the cost. I have research on
trumpets made of glass, lead, etc... so there is interest in different
metals but the narrow taper of the backbore on a mouthpiece seems to be
impossible to cast. I was just hoping someone had come up with some exotic
casting solution as I work with casters all the time, but don't know anyone
doing lathe work.

Any talented caster can do it in lost wax process. He has to use a
silicone rubber mold (Formgummi blau), wich doesn´t shrink and prepare
the form for the rest shrinkeage of metal (0,5 -2 %).

This is all.

Only if perfect fitting like original size is recommended, there must be
made a pre-enlarged (vorvergrößerung) form.


Grüße,
Heinrich Butschal

--
www.juwelen.online-boerse.org
www.meister-atelier.de
www.schmuckfabrik.de
www.medico.butschal.de

Hi Jack,

This may mean something to you or not. When I spent some time in the silver
factories in Mexico I never saw a silver cup that was cast. All were spun,
including the silver used to line copper utensils.

"Peter W.. Rowe," wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 21:49:54 -0700, in õ Jack Schmidling
wrote:


Brass is very easy to cast, but not as
malleable and workable as silver.

Why is it easier to cast? It's about the same melting temp, no?

Brass melts a little lower, but is also more fluid when molten, chills
more
slowly so it freezes up more slowly, and shrinks in the mold less than
silver.
All of this combines to make it a lot easier to get a complete casting
than in
silver. That cheap indian made plated brass, such as the cup you've
already
got, is often sand cast in remarkably primative setups, and works just
fine.


Sold. I surrender. Where do I start?


Reading. Email me off list for more detailed suggestions. then you'll
need to
buy, or make, at least a couple steel tools. And then, when you're ready
to
start hammering, you're gonna get some exercise... It's actually rather
enjoyable, almost hypnotic, after you get the idea of how the metal is
handled.
But email me.

Peter

"Peter W.. Rowe," wrote in message
...
On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 11:21:58 -0700, in ôõ Marion Margoshes
wrote:

The innocent "where do I start" should tell you what a good
time this guy is having with you-all who are taking him seriously.
--


Marion

Actually, he's having a good time exploring and fooling with metal. I know full
well what Jacks level of involvement is. He's got no intention of doing this as
a career or serious (economically) pursuit, but is having, from what i can tell,
a hell of a good time exploring it. And, while his learning may be proceeding
in a sequence that doesn't fit the usual order in which we teach people this
stuff, he's still having a fine time. his posts on the group, simply ask for
ideas when he feels he's missing something.

I'm reminded, a bit, of something John Paul Miller was known for. John, a well
known pioneer in the use of granulation, who's work is truely astounding, if
you're not familier with it, was known for his secrecy in his methods for a long
time. Though he was a teacher, he taught design at the Cleveland Institute of
Art, he wasn't actually employed to teach metals or jewelry, and in regards to
granulation, though he'd encourage anyone who wished to learn it, he never told
them exactly how he went about it. No precise instructions. His reasoning was
that he'd learned it by piecing together the method from available information
and a lot of experimentation, and his success was due in part to the deeper
understandings he'd formed by the research. He felt that anyone who really
wished to learn it, could similarly work it out, and would be the better for it.

Mr. Schmidling has some of that same desire to explore and work out the problems
as he encounters them. It may not be the way we might teach him, but his
explorations are demonstrating to him, in a way that verbal explanations could
never do, how metal behaves and whe things are done as they're done.

His "where do I start" statement only seems naive for those of us who already
know what in involved. It's a prefectly reasonable question from a beginner,
who's not yet even seen a raising stake or raising hammers, nor yet knows how
they're used. And, considering that the methods involved are taught to lots of
beginners with little more experience than jack has, often by giving them a disc
of metal, showing them how to mark it, and handing them a hammer, and saying
simply, "do this".... at least at the beginning, then his question is a fine
place to start.

I'd wonder if we were being toyed with if jack only posted questions.
_______
"Instead, we find he's been spending much effort and time actually melting,
pouring,and banging on metal." ______!_

Good enough for me. He'll end up learning what he wants to
learn. Is it what we teachers might wish him to learn? Who knows. his
choice.

Peter

At least he says that he has. I know that I am an ultimate
sceptic, but I have that feeling !!!