Question about gauge in fair isle

So I've got a pattern here for a sweater for my hubby. I'm trucking
along, knitting up a swatch* , when I notice that my gauge seems a bit
off. The gauge is listed as such:

20 sts and 26 rows = 4 ins [10cm] with 4.5 mm needles in stocking st.
21.5 sts and 22 rows = 4 ins [10cm] with 4.5 mm needles in fair isle
pat.


Here's my question: Wouldn't the number of rows increase as well,
since the fair isle fabric is more tightly knit? I looked on Paton's
website, but the pattern's an old one and isn't listed in their errata.


I'll bow to the collective wisdom of the group, but I'm thinking my
gauge should be 21.5 sts and 28 or so rows for every 4 inches. Whatcha
think?

Anastasia

--who thinks Paton's really should list errata for ALL of their books,
or at least do a better job of proofreading them before they go to
market!

* yes, I'm actually knitting a swatch first. I've noted the day on my
calendar so that I may celebrate the rare occurence come this time next
year.

** pattern is book 715: "The Joy of Pure Wool", (c) 1994 in case anyone
was interested.

--
Never say die. I've tried, and it doesn't actually make
people die.
"Teacher Gal" wrote in message
oups.com...
So I've got a pattern here for a sweater for my hubby. I'm trucking
along, knitting up a swatch* , when I notice that my gauge seems a bit
off. The gauge is listed as such:

20 sts and 26 rows = 4 ins [10cm] with 4.5 mm needles in stocking st.
21.5 sts and 22 rows = 4 ins [10cm] with 4.5 mm needles in fair isle
pat.


Here's my question: Wouldn't the number of rows increase as well,
since the fair isle fabric is more tightly knit? I looked on Paton's
website, but the pattern's an old one and isn't listed in their errata.

No the row gauge should not increase, you are not stranding the wool
vertically. The density of the fabric and slightly tighter gauge is the
result of stranding the wool horizontally.
DA

Are you knitting your swatch in Fair Isle patterns? (Four inches should take
you through at least 3 or 4 patterns.) Won't that answer the question
definitively?

Georgia

"Teacher Gal" wrote in message
oups.com...
So I've got a pattern here for a sweater for my hubby. I'm trucking
along, knitting up a swatch* , when I notice that my gauge seems a bit
off. The gauge is listed as such:

20 sts and 26 rows = 4 ins [10cm] with 4.5 mm needles in stocking st.
21.5 sts and 22 rows = 4 ins [10cm] with 4.5 mm needles in fair isle
pat.


Here's my question: Wouldn't the number of rows increase as well,
since the fair isle fabric is more tightly knit? I looked on Paton's
website, but the pattern's an old one and isn't listed in their errata.


I'll bow to the collective wisdom of the group, but I'm thinking my
gauge should be 21.5 sts and 28 or so rows for every 4 inches. Whatcha
think?

Anastasia

--who thinks Paton's really should list errata for ALL of their books,
or at least do a better job of proofreading them before they go to
market!

* yes, I'm actually knitting a swatch first. I've noted the day on my
calendar so that I may celebrate the rare occurence come this time next
year.

** pattern is book 715: "The Joy of Pure Wool", (c) 1994 in case anyone
was interested.

The folks who have replied are gratefully thanked, as are any who still
wish to chime in.

I'm still trying to get my horizontal gauge correct at this point;
still experimenting. The vertical gauge, though, seems to be off. The
original was

20 sts and 26 rows = 4 ins [10cm] with 4.5 mm needles in stocking st.
21.5 sts and 22 rows = 4 ins [10cm] with 4.5 mm needles in fair isle
pat.

but mine is closer to 22 sts, 24 rows. Granted, this is my first fair
isle attempt, and I really don't want to subject my hubby to another
grossly oversized sweater*, so I'm swatching like a madwoman. I've
been fiddling with a simple stranding pattern of 3 st x 3 st boxes of
color, but the actual pattern stitch is a bit more open. The next step
is to try using the 4.5 mm needles one more time and do a 6" x 6"
swatch using the actual pattern to see if my gauge is still off. If
that fails, we'll move up a size in needle. I'm a notoriously loose
knitter, once I get going, so I'm a bit hesitant to go up a needle
size.

Also, a book I have suggests using a circular needle for fair isle. I
love circulars, and understand how the yarn won't get screwy at the end
of rows if you use circulars, but I was hoping to use straight needles
for this one. Of course, my book doesn't give much assistance when it
comes to dealing with the issue of that second strand of yarn. I've
been twisting the two strands together before I turn, but that's been
pulling the work in on the ends. I'm thinking there are three ways to
attack this little tricky bit:

1) Do the first and last stitch of every row in an alternate color,
then hide that stich in the seam. Creates a bulkier seam, but would
probably help keep those ends from pulling in so badly.

2) Cut the yarn at the end of every row and knot the two strands
together? I really hate this idea, as I don't want knots to add to the
bulk of the seams.

3) Chuck the others and re-design the sweater myself (I think I can do
that) to allow for a circular construction. If I do decide to go with
circulars, how do you switch yarn colors? I've always just used one
color before, so splicing in was never a problem. I would think that a
splice would just be ugly.....or should I try that join that twists
back on itself (I believe it's called a Russian join)?

I'm planning on trying to teach myself how to "catch" the longer floats
this time around, too. I might not get to any of this for a few
days, though, as I have two papers and a midterm this week.

Fortunam bonam mihi cupe!**

Anastasia

*please let's not revisit the Homespun disaster. Thank you.
** "Wish me good luck" in Latin. My midterm's in that class.

"Teacher Gal" wrote in message
ups.com...
The folks who have replied are gratefully thanked, as are any who still
wish to chime in.

I'm still trying to get my horizontal gauge correct at this point;
still experimenting. The vertical gauge, though, seems to be off. The
original was

20 sts and 26 rows = 4 ins [10cm] with 4.5 mm needles in stocking st.
21.5 sts and 22 rows = 4 ins [10cm] with 4.5 mm needles in fair isle
pat.

but mine is closer to 22 sts, 24 rows. Granted, this is my first fair
isle attempt, and I really don't want to subject my hubby to another
grossly oversized sweater*, so I'm swatching like a madwoman. I've
been fiddling with a simple stranding pattern of 3 st x 3 st boxes of
color, but the actual pattern stitch is a bit more open. The next step
is to try using the 4.5 mm needles one more time and do a 6" x 6"
swatch using the actual pattern to see if my gauge is still off. If
that fails, we'll move up a size in needle. I'm a notoriously loose
knitter, once I get going, so I'm a bit hesitant to go up a needle
size.

The row gauge of 24 sts will distort the patterns slightly, making them a
bit taller than they should be. Since only a knitter would notice this, you
can decide if it matters.

Also, a book I have suggests using a circular needle for fair isle. I
love circulars, and understand how the yarn won't get screwy at the end
of rows if you use circulars, but I was hoping to use straight needles
for this one. Of course, my book doesn't give much assistance when it
comes to dealing with the issue of that second strand of yarn. I've
been twisting the two strands together before I turn, but that's been
pulling the work in on the ends. I'm thinking there are three ways to
attack this little tricky bit:

1) Do the first and last stitch of every row in an alternate color,
then hide that stich in the seam. Creates a bulkier seam, but would
probably help keep those ends from pulling in so badly.

I will confess that I have never knitted a Fair Isle with anything but
jumper weight yarn, using circular needles to knit up to the armhole.
Traditional patterns only use two colors per row, if you are knitting two
rows with the same colors, knit the first stitch on the working row and
catch the non-working yarn to bring it into the proper postition.


2) Cut the yarn at the end of every row and knot the two strands
together? I really hate this idea, as I don't want knots to add to the
bulk of the seams.

3) Chuck the others and re-design the sweater myself (I think I can do
that) to allow for a circular construction. If I do decide to go with
circulars, how do you switch yarn colors? I've always just used one
color before, so splicing in was never a problem. I would think that a
splice would just be ugly.....or should I try that join that twists
back on itself (I believe it's called a Russian join)?

It could be worked like an intarsia pattern, darning in the ends when you
are done. If your library has Alice Starmore's book on Fair Isle knitting,
it would be a helpful read.

DA

I think [and it happened to me in my experience of this
technique],That the pulling together that happens to the stitches ,
sort of `makes` them a bit taller /longer `.
mirjam

So I've got a pattern here for a sweater for my hubby. I'm trucking
along, knitting up a swatch* , when I notice that my gauge seems a bit
off. The gauge is listed as such:

20 sts and 26 rows = 4 ins [10cm] with 4.5 mm needles in stocking st.
21.5 sts and 22 rows = 4 ins [10cm] with 4.5 mm needles in fair isle
pat.


Here's my question: Wouldn't the number of rows increase as well,
since the fair isle fabric is more tightly knit? I looked on Paton's
website, but the pattern's an old one and isn't listed in their errata.


I'll bow to the collective wisdom of the group, but I'm thinking my
gauge should be 21.5 sts and 28 or so rows for every 4 inches. Whatcha
think?

Anastasia

--who thinks Paton's really should list errata for ALL of their books,
or at least do a better job of proofreading them before they go to
market!

* yes, I'm actually knitting a swatch first. I've noted the day on my
calendar so that I may celebrate the rare occurence come this time next
year.

** pattern is book 715: "The Joy of Pure Wool", (c) 1994 in case anyone
was interested.