Jade versus Jadeite

Hi folks,

My mom recently returned from China with a couple of "jadeite"
bracelets she bought as gifts for my daughters. She said that jadeite
is somehow better than "plain jade," and reported spending $300 each
for bangle bracelet. I can google or surf on eBay and find them for
$20-$30. Is this a difference in quality perhaps or was she taken for
some big bucks?

Thanks!

Chuck

On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 15:16:04 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry
wrote:

Hi folks,

My mom recently returned from China with a couple of "jadeite"
bracelets she bought as gifts for my daughters. She said that jadeite
is somehow better than "plain jade," and reported spending $300 each
for bangle bracelet. I can google or surf on eBay and find them for
$20-$30. Is this a difference in quality perhaps or was she taken for
some big bucks?

Thanks!

Chuck


There are two distinct minerals that are called Jade. The more common, and less
costly one, is nephrite. Almost all the darker olive green, or less intense
dark green, black, or various other variations on these themes, and sometimes
with various roiled textures or black spots, and the like, are nephrite jade.
This includes the jade from British Columbia, Alaska, Wyoming, and what's
called Siberian jade and Taiwan jade, as well as many other sources around the
world.

Jadeite jade is a distinctly different mineral, with a "texture" more like
crystaline sugar when you look into it, though the best versions won't show this
texture, being instead merely transluscent and even. It occurs in a much wider
range of colors than nephrite, including white, pale lavender, orange to yellow
to brown, as well as all sorts of green shades, from very pale light green all
the way to an intense green that would make a nice emerald jealous. This last,
if also very even and uniform in color and evenly transluscent, can be worth
many tens of thousands of dollars per carat in it's finest rarest qualities,
several orders of magnitude more than any nephrite will ever be worth. Most
jadeite, though, is more in the hundreds per carat or less, sometimes much less.
Most jadeite in indeed worth more than most nephrite, but you can't say this is
always the case. Some jadeite, as with any type of gem stone, is almost
worthless junk, and some nephrite is very nice and quite pricey.

However, putting a price on a piece of jade is diffucult for even the experts
sometimes, because jadeite in particular, has often been dyed or treated, and
even without that, very slight differences in appearance and color can make a
big difference in value. Plus, with nephrite in particular, there are a number
of other minerals that can look similar to nephrite, and also a number of
outright fakes (glass and even some resins, for example, can be quite convincing
if made to closely resemble nephrite). So before you can even start to worry
about an items value, you have to first establish exactly what it is.

While China has traditionally been a source for much jade (the best actually is
better known from Burma, or what used to be called Burma...), it's also
unfortunately one of the more prolific sources of the fakes and misrepresented
items. So while it's entirely possible that your mom got great jade bracelets
at a great price, it's also quite possible that she spent 290 dollars each, too
much. Telling this in a newsgroup post is simply impossible. A photo might
give clues, but even with a good close up photograph, a real determination of
what the things really are, and thus what the're worth, needs to be done by a
trained gemologist, in person.

If these bracelets are worth what she paid, then prudence might suggest she'd
want to insure them along with her other jewelry, in any case. So that's
already a good argument for having them appraised properly. She should be sure
the person doing the appraisal is a fully trained gemologist, who will properly
test the material to identify it conclusively.

HTH

Peter Rowe

Hello Peter,

a perfect description of jade in the commerce. However I have learned the=
re=20
are more minerals used in this field. It should be 4 different minerals.

Jade =3D jadeit this is the top
Jadealbit
Nephrith as You mentioned
and a fourth one, but in the moment I can=B4t remember the name of it.

best whishes,
Heinrich Butschal

Peter W.. Rowe, schrieb:
On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 15:16:04 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry cewyattjr@gma=
il.com
wrote:
=20
Hi folks,

My mom recently returned from China with a couple of "jadeite"
bracelets she bought as gifts for my daughters. She said that jadeit=
e
is somehow better than "plain jade," and reported spending $300 each
for bangle bracelet. I can google or surf on eBay and find them for
$20-$30. Is this a difference in quality perhaps or was she taken fo=
r
some big bucks?

Thanks!

Chuck

=20
There are two distinct minerals that are called Jade. The more common,=
and less
costly one, is nephrite. Almost all the darker olive green, or less in=
tense
dark green, black, or various other variations on these themes, and so=
metimes
with various roiled textures or black spots, and the like, are nephrite=
jade.
This includes the jade from British Columbia, Alaska, Wyoming, and wha=
t's
called Siberian jade and Taiwan jade, as well as many other sources aro=
und the
world. =20
=20
Jadeite jade is a distinctly different mineral, with a "texture" more l=
ike
crystaline sugar when you look into it, though the best versions won't =
show this
texture, being instead merely transluscent and even. It occurs in a mu=
ch wider
range of colors than nephrite, including white, pale lavender, orange t=
o yellow
to brown, as well as all sorts of green shades, from very pale light gr=
een all
the way to an intense green that would make a nice emerald jealous. Th=
is last,
if also very even and uniform in color and evenly transluscent, can be =
worth
many tens of thousands of dollars per carat in it's finest rarest quali=
ties,
several orders of magnitude more than any nephrite will ever be worth. =
Most
jadeite, though, is more in the hundreds per carat or less, sometimes m=
uch less.
Most jadeite in indeed worth more than most nephrite, but you can't say=
this is
always the case. Some jadeite, as with any type of gem stone, is almos=
t
worthless junk, and some nephrite is very nice and quite pricey.
=20
However, putting a price on a piece of jade is diffucult for even the e=
xperts
sometimes, because jadeite in particular, has often been dyed or treate=
d, and
even without that, very slight differences in appearance and color can =
make a
big difference in value. Plus, with nephrite in particular, there are=
a number
of other minerals that can look similar to nephrite, and also a number =
of
outright fakes (glass and even some resins, for example, can be quite c=
onvincing
if made to closely resemble nephrite). So before you can even start to=
worry
about an items value, you have to first establish exactly what it is.
=20
While China has traditionally been a source for much jade (the best act=
ually is
better known from Burma, or what used to be called Burma...), it's also=

unfortunately one of the more prolific sources of the fakes and misrepr=
esented
items. So while it's entirely possible that your mom got great jade br=
acelets
at a great price, it's also quite possible that she spent 290 dollars e=
ach, too
much. Telling this in a newsgroup post is simply impossible. A photo =
might
give clues, but even with a good close up photograph, a real determinat=
ion of
what the things really are, and thus what the're worth, needs to be don=
e by a
trained gemologist, in person.
=20
If these bracelets are worth what she paid, then prudence might suggest=
she'd
want to insure them along with her other jewelry, in any case. So that=
's
already a good argument for having them appraised properly. She shoul=
d be sure
the person doing the appraisal is a fully trained gemologist, who will =
properly
test the material to identify it conclusively.
=20
HTH
=20
Peter Rowe


Mit freundlichem Gru=DF,
Heinrich Butschal
--=20
Schmuck gut verkaufen und g=FCnstig kaufen http://www.schmuck-boerse.com
Geschichten ber=FChmter Juwelen http://www.royal-magazin.de
Schmuck nach Ma=DF anfertigen http://www.meister-atelier.de
Firmengeschenke und Ehrennadeln http://www.schmuckfabrik.de

Hello Peter,

a perfect description of jade in the commerce. However I have learned there
are more minerals used in this field. It should be 4 different minerals.

Jade = jadeit this is the top
Jadealbit
Nephrith as You mentioned
and a fourth one, but in the moment I can´t remember the name of it.

best whishes,
Heinrich Butschal

Peter W.. Rowe, schrieb:
On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 15:16:04 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry
wrote:

Hi folks,

My mom recently returned from China with a couple of "jadeite"
bracelets she bought as gifts for my daughters. She said that jadeite
is somehow better than "plain jade," and reported spending $300 each
for bangle bracelet. I can google or surf on eBay and find them for
$20-$30. Is this a difference in quality perhaps or was she taken for
some big bucks?

Thanks!

Chuck


There are two distinct minerals that are called Jade. The more common, and less
costly one, is nephrite. Almost all the darker olive green, or less intense
dark green, black, or various other variations on these themes, and sometimes
with various roiled textures or black spots, and the like, are nephrite jade.
This includes the jade from British Columbia, Alaska, Wyoming, and what's
called Siberian jade and Taiwan jade, as well as many other sources around the
world.

Jadeite jade is a distinctly different mineral, with a "texture" more like
crystaline sugar when you look into it, though the best versions won't show this
texture, being instead merely transluscent and even. It occurs in a much wider
range of colors than nephrite, including white, pale lavender, orange to yellow
to brown, as well as all sorts of green shades, from very pale light green all
the way to an intense green that would make a nice emerald jealous. This last,
if also very even and uniform in color and evenly transluscent, can be worth
many tens of thousands of dollars per carat in it's finest rarest qualities,
several orders of magnitude more than any nephrite will ever be worth. Most
jadeite, though, is more in the hundreds per carat or less, sometimes much less.
Most jadeite in indeed worth more than most nephrite, but you can't say this is
always the case. Some jadeite, as with any type of gem stone, is almost
worthless junk, and some nephrite is very nice and quite pricey.

However, putting a price on a piece of jade is diffucult for even the experts
sometimes, because jadeite in particular, has often been dyed or treated, and
even without that, very slight differences in appearance and color can make a
big difference in value. Plus, with nephrite in particular, there are a number
of other minerals that can look similar to nephrite, and also a number of
outright fakes (glass and even some resins, for example, can be quite convincing
if made to closely resemble nephrite). So before you can even start to worry
about an items value, you have to first establish exactly what it is.

While China has traditionally been a source for much jade (the best actually is
better known from Burma, or what used to be called Burma...), it's also
unfortunately one of the more prolific sources of the fakes and misrepresented
items. So while it's entirely possible that your mom got great jade bracelets
at a great price, it's also quite possible that she spent 290 dollars each, too
much. Telling this in a newsgroup post is simply impossible. A photo might
give clues, but even with a good close up photograph, a real determination of
what the things really are, and thus what the're worth, needs to be done by a
trained gemologist, in person.

If these bracelets are worth what she paid, then prudence might suggest she'd
want to insure them along with her other jewelry, in any case. So that's
already a good argument for having them appraised properly. She should be sure
the person doing the appraisal is a fully trained gemologist, who will properly
test the material to identify it conclusively.

HTH

Peter Rowe


Mit freundlichem Gruß,
Heinrich Butschal
--
Schmuck gut verkaufen und günstig kaufen http://www.schmuck-boerse.com
Geschichten berühmter Juwelen http://www.royal-magazin.de
Schmuck nach Maß anfertigen http://www.meister-atelier.de
Firmengeschenke und Ehrennadeln http://www.schmuckfabrik.de

Jadite is not very expensive. although it has a simular name it is not Jade
which is far more expensive.
Dave

wrote in message
...
Hi folks,

My mom recently returned from China with a couple of "jadeite"
bracelets she bought as gifts for my daughters. She said that jadeite
is somehow better than "plain jade," and reported spending $300 each
for bangle bracelet. I can google or surf on eBay and find them for
$20-$30. Is this a difference in quality perhaps or was she taken for
some big bucks?

Thanks!

Chuck





--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 08:30:16 -0700, in "Castle Jewellers"
wrote:

Jadite is not very expensive. although it has a simular name it is not Jade
which is far more expensive.
Dave

Dave, you may wish to read up on this a bit more. You've got it wrong, I think.

Jadeite (note the spelling, as in the original post, with and ei) is one of the two
minerals that most commonly go by the name jade. The other is Nephrite. There are a
few other related minerals that may also be now and then called Jade, but these are the
two main ones. They are unrelated mineralogically (one is a pyroxine, the other an
amphibole, if I remember it right), but they share an unusually tough fibrous sort of
structure that gives them both similar toughness.

Anyway, both versions occur in a wide range or qualities. Nephrite is the more common,
being sold as taiwan jade, alaskan jade, siberian jade, wyoming jade, etc. The biggest
deposits are British Columbia, Alaska, Wyoming, etc, with others around the world of
lesser commercial importance. Large quantities of that material were exported back to
China for carving as early as the mid 1800s or so. Most of the Chinese nephrite
carvings are actually done in material that was North American in origin. Common colors
are the darker olive greens, brownish greens, black, and the like. There are a wide
number is simulants for this type of material, including glass and plastic, and other
less durable minerals like serpantine.

Jadeite is by far the rarer of the two types of jades. White in color when chemically
pure, it's commonly also found with colors due to impurities. Chromium, just like with
emerald, can give it a rich intense green color. In the best qualites of this, the
bright green jadeites can be a quality known as imperial jade,and this stuff, sometimes
in the tens of thousands of dollars per carat, would not normally be called cheap by
anyone I know. Most jadeite, of course, is not in this rarified class, and less costly
colors, including paler or muddier greens, browns, orangy tones, whites, greys, and pale
lavenders, may be available in reasonably priced examples, and sometimes even cheap.
The classic sources of the best Jadeite are Burmese and Chinese, but there are others
also, as well as the inevitable slew of fakes, simulants, and very commonly low quality
jadeite that's been treated and/or dyed to make it appear better than it is. Some
colors, such as the lavenders, are much more common in the dyed or treated versions than
in the natural, and can sometimes be actually quite tricky gemologically to actually
prove as not natural or natural. Some jadeite in less desireable qualities can actually
still be quite attractive while still low priced, so there ends up being a very wide
range of prices.

But common sense is a good guide. If it seems to cheap to be true, it probably isn't
what it's represented to be. I'd guess the bracelents mentioned in the original post
were either simulants, or dyed low quality material, or simply some mineral other than
jade.

By the way, if when you spelled it Jadite, you were actually referring to one of the
simulants or something, then I apologize for misinterpreting your post. But that's not
a commonly accepted trade name for one of the fakes, at least not that I've seen...

Peter Rowe

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 14:27:12 -0700, in ?? "Peter W.. Rowe,"
wrote:

But common sense is a good guide. If it seems to cheap to be true, it probably isn't
what it's represented to be. I'd guess the bracelents mentioned in the original post
were either simulants, or dyed low quality material, or simply some mineral other than
jade

I should clarify this. I was referring to the cheap 20 to 30 dollar versions the poster
claimed to find on ebay. The one his/her mom had paid 300 for, might have been actual
jadeite. Whether they were worth the price paid, of course, is anyone's guess. Might
have been, or might not. But 300 is enough to buy a modest to halfway decent jadeite
bracelet if one is dealing with an honest and ethical dealer. The likelihood of a
tourist finding this on a trip abroad, is of course debatable, but it's not impossible.

Peter

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Peter W.. Rowe, wrote:

On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 08:30:16 -0700, in "Castle Jewellers"
wrote:


Jadite is not very expensive. although it has a simular name it is not Jade
which is far more expensive.
Dave


Dave, you may wish to read up on this a bit more. You've got it wrong, I think.

Jadeite (note the spelling, as in the original post, with and ei) is one of the two
minerals that most commonly go by the name jade. The other is Nephrite. There are a
few other related minerals that may also be now and then called Jade, but these are the
two main ones. They are unrelated mineralogically (one is a pyroxine, the other an
amphibole, if I remember it right), but they share an unusually tough fibrous sort of
structure that gives them both similar toughness.

Anyway, both versions occur in a wide range or qualities. Nephrite is the more common,
being sold as taiwan jade, alaskan jade, siberian jade, wyoming jade, etc. The biggest
deposits are British Columbia, Alaska, Wyoming, etc, with others around the world of
lesser commercial importance. Large quantities of that material were exported back to
China for carving as early as the mid 1800s or so. Most of the Chinese nephrite
carvings are actually done in material that was North American in origin. Common colors
are the darker olive greens, brownish greens, black, and the like. There are a wide
number is simulants for this type of material, including glass and plastic, and other
less durable minerals like serpantine.

Jadeite is by far the rarer of the two types of jades. White in color when chemically
pure, it's commonly also found with colors due to impurities. Chromium, just like with
emerald, can give it a rich intense green color. In the best qualites of this, the
bright green jadeites can be a quality known as imperial jade,and this stuff, sometimes
in the tens of thousands of dollars per carat, would not normally be called cheap by
anyone I know. Most jadeite, of course, is not in this rarified class, and less costly
colors, including paler or muddier greens, browns, orangy tones, whites, greys, and pale
lavenders, may be available in reasonably priced examples, and sometimes even cheap.
The classic sources of the best Jadeite are Burmese and Chinese, but there are others
also, as well as the inevitable slew of fakes, simulants, and very commonly low quality
jadeite that's been treated and/or dyed to make it appear better than it is. Some
colors, such as the lavenders, are much more common in the dyed or treated versions than
in the natural, and can sometimes be actually quite tricky gemologically to actually
prove as not natural or natural. Some jadeite in less desireable qualities can actually
still be quite attractive while still low priced, so there ends up being a very wide
range of prices.

But common sense is a good guide. If it seems to cheap to be true, it probably isn't
what it's represented to be. I'd guess the bracelents mentioned in the original post
were either simulants, or dyed low quality material, or simply some mineral other than
jade.

By the way, if when you spelled it Jadite, you were actually referring to one of the
simulants or something, then I apologize for misinterpreting your post. But that's not
a commonly accepted trade name for one of the fakes, at least not that I've seen...

Peter Rowe


As an aside, there is a superb book called The Stone of Heaven . If you
read it, you will have an increased appreciation for its, well, worth if
not value.

Carl


--
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--
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Peter W.. Rowe, schrieb:
On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 08:30:16 -0700, in "Castle Jewellers"
wrote:

Jadite is not very expensive. although it has a simular name it is not Jade
which is far more expensive.
Dave

Dave, you may wish to read up on this a bit more. You've got it wrong, I think.

Jadeite (note the spelling, as in the original post, with and ei) is one of the two
minerals that most commonly go by the name jade. The other is Nephrite. There are a
few other related minerals that may also be now and then called Jade, but these are the
two main ones. They are unrelated mineralogically (one is a pyroxine, the other an
amphibole, if I remember it right), but they share an unusually tough fibrous sort of
structure that gives them both similar toughness.

Anyway, both versions occur in a wide range or qualities. Nephrite is the more common,
being sold as taiwan jade, alaskan jade, siberian jade, wyoming jade, etc. The biggest
deposits are British Columbia, Alaska, Wyoming, etc, with others around the world of
lesser commercial importance. Large quantities of that material were exported back to
China for carving as early as the mid 1800s or so. Most of the Chinese nephrite
carvings are actually done in material that was North American in origin. Common colors
are the darker olive greens, brownish greens, black, and the like. There are a wide
number is simulants for this type of material, including glass and plastic, and other
less durable minerals like serpantine.

Jadeite is by far the rarer of the two types of jades. White in color when chemically
pure, it's commonly also found with colors due to impurities. Chromium, just like with
emerald, can give it a rich intense green color. In the best qualites of this, the
bright green jadeites can be a quality known as imperial jade,and this stuff, sometimes
in the tens of thousands of dollars per carat, would not normally be called cheap by
anyone I know. Most jadeite, of course, is not in this rarified class, and less costly
colors, including paler or muddier greens, browns, orangy tones, whites, greys, and pale
lavenders, may be available in reasonably priced examples, and sometimes even cheap.
The classic sources of the best Jadeite are Burmese and Chinese, but there are others
also, as well as the inevitable slew of fakes, simulants, and very commonly low quality
jadeite that's been treated and/or dyed to make it appear better than it is. Some
colors, such as the lavenders, are much more common in the dyed or treated versions than
in the natural, and can sometimes be actually quite tricky gemologically to actually
prove as not natural or natural. Some jadeite in less desireable qualities can actually
still be quite attractive while still low priced, so there ends up being a very wide
range of prices.

But common sense is a good guide. If it seems to cheap to be true, it probably isn't
what it's represented to be. I'd guess the bracelents mentioned in the original post
were either simulants, or dyed low quality material, or simply some mineral other than
jade.

By the way, if when you spelled it Jadite, you were actually referring to one of the
simulants or something, then I apologize for misinterpreting your post. But that's not
a commonly accepted trade name for one of the fakes, at least not that I've seen...

Peter Rowe


Hallo Peter Rowe,

You are absolutely correct. Some weeks ago I posted here, that there are 4
minerals common known and used like jade. I remembered only three of them.
Now I remember the fourth.

Jadeit, Jadealbit, Nephrit and Chloromelanit.


Mit freundlichem Gruß,
Heinrich Butschal
--
Schmuck gut verkaufen und günstig kaufen http://www.schmuck-boerse.com
Geschichten berühmter Juwelen http://www.royal-magazin.de
Schmuck nach Maß anfertigen http://www.meister-atelier.de
Firmengeschenke und Ehrennadeln http://www.schmuckfabrik.de

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com