Terribly OT opinions requested...

they'll wait till you are home, or maybe you'll decide the next day you
might
| want them to visit.

Good idea in theory, but mom won't leave when asked. Not when I ask her
anyway.

Maybe you could have signal to your dh when you get tired of the visitors and
your dh can leave to say maybe run out for a soda or coffee and stop at the
nurses station and ask your nurse to come in with some sort of excuse that
visitors have to leave because they need to do a procedure on you or maybe the
nurse could say your blood pressure is really high and you need to be in a
quiet setting for awhile. Just an idea. You can work this out in advance.
I'm really happy for you. Congrats on the upcoming birth of your new baby.
Hopefully it won't be as painful as the first.

Jo Jo

There are over 6 billion people on this Earth. There
were less than 3 billion when I was born! Is no one paying attention to
this?

I am. I don't voice my opinion about it anymore because people get
angry, but believe me, you're not the only one that worries about
this.
Why is adoption such a dirty word? My soulmate and partner was
adopted, and thank goodness for it too.

People get angry with you? Sheesh. Why?
And children are children -- they all deserve love and shelter and parents.
~~
Sooz
-------
ESBC
~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html
~ Bead Notes: Beading information A - Z
http://www.lampwork.net/beadnotes.html

This is such a good idea!

Maybe you could have signal to your dh when you get tired of the visitors and
your dh can leave to say maybe run out for a soda or coffee and stop at the
nurses station and ask your nurse to come in with some sort of excuse that
visitors have to leave because they need to do a procedure on you or maybe
the
nurse could say your blood pressure is really high and you need to be in a
quiet setting for awhile.


~~
Sooz
-------
ESBC
~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html
~ Bead Notes: Beading information A - Z
http://www.lampwork.net/beadnotes.html

I agree with this completely. In fact, it sounds from your description
of your first delivery as if the whole family never learned to
recognize other people's boundaries, and to know where their life (and
power and responsibility) ends and the other person's begins.

Deirdre

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:36:46 -0400, "laura"
wrote:

Karlee, I've never had children but this isn't about that. It's a boundary
issue. This is about *your* body, *your* pain, *your* wishes and *your*
choices.

Anyone who can't respect your right to set boundaries where they are
comfortable for you regarding issues as personal as childbirth and fertility
is being selfish and childish. Your mom may be your mom, but you are an
adult, and at the moment she is treating you like property, not like a
thinking, feeling, capable human being. I would simply tell her that these
issues aren't up for discussion and remove them from the table.

Kindly and politely decline involvement in further discussion on these
issues and avoid getting drawn into arguments with your mom about this. It
really isn't her business, and you do not need the added stress at this
time. You have every right to make your own decisions about this and to be
as firm as necessary in making sure those decisions are respected.

Laura

"Karlee in Kansas" wrote in message
...
Please don't label me as a horrible person for these things, but I would
like the input of anyone that has been a "new
mom" (even and especially if you have been said new mom more than once).

Yeah ... pretty much. If we paid attention we'd have to think about
the consequences.

Deirdre

On 16 Jul 2003 18:40:21 GMT, uppies (Dr. Sooz)
wrote:

Is no one paying attention to this?

Vbac is Vaginal Birth After Caesarean. I only know cause my sis had two
vbacs ..at home no less.. after a c-section for the first birth.
Diana

--
http://photos.yahoo.com/lunamom44

What is a VBAC?

Jo Jo

"Lee S. Billings" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

Many private adoption agencies WILL NOT place a
black or mixed-race child with a white candidate couple, even if the
couple
would accept one.


Is that really still true?

I wouldn't have thought that would be legal any more...

marisa2

In article ,
says...


"Lee S. Billings" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

Many private adoption agencies WILL NOT place a
black or mixed-race child with a white candidate couple, even if the
couple would accept one.


Is that really still true?

I wouldn't have thought that would be legal any more...

It wouldn't be legal for *government* agencies. Private ones can still get away
with it, though. This issue came up on a mailing list a while back, and I
actually did some gasp RESEARCH! I called every adoption agency that had a
local phone listing, said I was doing a paper for a class, and asked several
questions. One of them was, specifically, "Would you place a black or
mixed-race child with a white couple?" One or two said yes; one said they would
do it only if the bio-mother approved; the others all said no.

Celine

--
Handmade jewelry at http://www.rubylane.com/shops/starcat
"Only the powers of evil claim that doing good is boring."
-- Diane Duane, _Nightfall at Algemron_

Karlee,
I am a grandmother times 3, was @ the hospital in the waiting room during
all 3 births, don't believe in staying long on visits (been there know how
tired you are now & will be!). Stay firm on this. The one way you might & it
is only a might get your mom to understand not being in the delivery room
is: Mom were you in the room when we made the baby? This is the way I look @
it plus this is the time for you, daddy & baby to have a little time alone
before the 'herds' show up!
Kitty
"Karlee in Kansas" wrote in message
...
Kathy wrote

gentle snip

| Note to grandma to be: How many of your deliveries had an audience?
Hmmmm?
| If she wants to see the miracle of birth, I understand that there is a
| videotape with that exact title at the library. Watch the video until
this
| desire to both people as they give birth goes away.

Actually, i'm an only child, and adopted. My mother was unable to have
kids. I think herin lies her desire to be there
for the birth.

|
| Perhaps, I'll get to me a grandmother. I expect to get a phone call
saying
| it's all over, so I can go and smother the grandbaby with kisses.
Before
| that, I want to be at the house, preparing quick to heat meals, cleaning
to a
| fare thee well, and doing everything I could to make the new family come
home
| to as little work as possible.

She has been griping for MONTHS about coming up to help clean and
decorate. I keep refusing because I know that every
10 minutes all I will hear about is what a horrible housekeeper I am and
how terrible my decorating sense is. We have
been in our new house for right close to 5 months, and she STILL hasn't
been in here (because we won't let her mind
you).


|
| If there is already an older sibling, as in your case, I'd want to spend
my
| last one-on-one time alone with the big kid, and make a big honking deal
how
| she is so special and loved for being first, and for being big enough to
do
| cool things, unlike the new baby.

That is about half of my reasoning for wanting to be left alone during the
labor, delivery, and post delivery. Kidlet
the first needs to get to hold the baby too. I get dibs on being "first"
though.

|
| Normal deliveries do not have crowds of people rambling through, and
| certainly not "pointing and giggling." If you don't want interns,
students
| and other non-essential folk around, that's your decision, and your
right.
| The hospital cannot force you to have a gang of people around.

This hospital is a little different (or at least was when kidlet the first
was born). While in labor, my parents came,
most of the spouses chain of command came up (including his XO and wife,
his platoon sgt (in his domino's pizza
uniform), his battalion commander, and 1st sgt and wife), 3 different
ministers, a bunch of people from my home church
(they road tripped it cause its an hour drive from the home church to
where the hospital is), and an aunt that I can't
stand. I never had less than 3 people in the room with me.....and of
course, spouse at the time was no where to be
found (he was with his girlfried....LONG story mind you, and NO I wasn't
happy about it, we wound up getting a divorce
over his infidelity a few months later). I got yelled at by my mom
because I was in hella pain and making it known that
I was rather uncomfortable with each contraction (this is before the
relief of my epidural). Mom said "Quit yelling
about it. It doesn't hurt THAT bad"


|
| Aside: I habitually allow even first year med students to examine my
lungs,
| and some third year surgical residents were on rounds when I had my neck
| surgery. No biggie. When I had "private" surgery, I didn't want/have
anyone
| there but the support staff and my husband.

I just don't want some nursing student that has never had kidlets to be
giggling at my pain AND my privates like the
first time around. I was insulted, hurt, still in pain, and threw a bed
pan at one of them. No, I didn't miss. I get
cranky when I'm hooked up to a gazillion machines and have bags of stuff
pumping into me while I'm in pain. VERY
cranky.

| Here, I'll disagree. Hospitals have amazingly short periods of time
when
| visitors are allowed. They have rules to limit the number of visitors,
and
| they tell them when they must leave. You do not have to feed or
otherwise
| entertain visitors who come to see the baby. Lie back and moan about
pain,
| and the nurse will kick everyone out for you.

This hospital is very lax with visitors in the post-delivery unit. I had
a private room (standard procedure for
c-section moms), and it wasn't that large to begin with. I again had a
troop of people coming through. At one point,
both my parents were there, my gramma, my aunt (one that I get along with)
5 of my cousins, my best friend and her
little sister, the XO and his wife, the 1st sgt and his wife, and three of
my other friends. That is 18 people in one
little room. They were not asked to leave, take turns, or anything else.
Staff let them be. I just wanted a NAP
dammit. Anesthetic slowly wearing off, 18.5 hours of labor, no sleep, no
shower, no food, wasnt allowed out of bed yet.
Again I was cranky.

|
| At home, it's a lot harder to get people to leave. The come when they
want
| to, stay as long as they're comfortable (about 20 times longer than
you're
| comfortable), and expect to be fed and entertained, while you're simply
| trying to reach a day where taking a shower isn't taxing your energy. If
| you're learning to nurse, having a crowd of people is a total nightmare.
| Fuhgeddaboutit.

Being that I live about an hour away from anyone that wants to come up,
I'll have warning. AND its a TON easier to keep
them off a military base than you probably think. People will KNOW this
time that IF you drive an hour to see me and
the baby, you will ONLY stay for a half hour. Thirsty? Get it yourself.
Gotta pee? Don't ask or you will be told the
terlit is broke, go find it yourself. And NO you can't feed the baby, I
don't want your hands on my boobs. Bottles
will be introduced (with breast milk in them) at a later date.

|
| I'd let them go buck-wild visiting the hospital, knowing they're
leaving, and
| keep the house off limits for a few weeks. We followed that, and our
only
| visitor that first week was my best friend: she didn't even come in the
door
| or see the baby. She knocked on my door, handed me a casserole with
| instructions for heating it up, and gave me a gift bag with paper
plates,
| plastic silverware, etc., and a bottle of champaigne. Then she hugged
me and
| left. God bless her.

Can she be my best friend too?? I need more friends like this.....

|| Tell them to leave the baby in the nursery until the family has left.
(You
| heard your cousin is comng down with something, and you don't want the
baby
| made ill) Baby will sleep, and with the added entertainment of you
being
| unconcious, they're liable to leave quickly. (Feign sleep when real
sleep
| isn't happening)

Last time they just sat there and watched me sleep. (I have a really wierd
family to say the least) Staff wouldn't bring
the baby to me unless I was awake, and wouldn't bring in the baby like a
parade. They couldn't get in the nursery
without being a parent (both parents get a bracelet that matches baby's)
for security reasons.

| Things are different now. If the nurse doesn't listen to you, have your
| husband (whose main job is ad your advocate) make the people leave.
They
| will leave. And better they leave the hospital, satisfied and not
wanting to
| camp out at your house.

THIS time hubby will be there. And I know that he will stop everyone at
the door. Its just getting my mother to
realise the fact that I want to be left ALONE this time around.

| Why does she even know about this? This is so none of her business. If
she
| had the cajones to bring it up to me, I'd give her a fixing stare, pause
for
| a really long time and say, "Why do you want to know about my sexual
future?"
|
| Then run.

My mom being the Queen of Nosy, asked what we planned to do in the future
for BC, knowing that the pill is out. So I
told her. She didn't like it. A lot of times I tell my mom the blunt
truth because it has more shock value than any
story I could come up with. I love mixing shock value and my stuck up
mother in the same pot. THAT is some real
entertainment. (Sometimes)

|
| Do you guys think that I should please the planet by letting people
see me
| in all my glory whilst I feel terribly
| uncomfortable?
| No.
|
| Do you guys think that I should let the outside world turn
| my hospital room into a major hub of
| activity?
| Yes, because it's better than the alternative.
|
| Do you think that at 27, after major complications during
| pregnancy, labor, and delivery, and two kids, that
| I should reconsider my choice to be sterilized?
|
| That's between you and your husband. I wouldn't presume to be so rude
as to
| give an opinion. It's your body and your lives: I presume any decision
you
| make is the right one for you.
|
|
| Opinions are being requested, but flames are not. I'm getting enough
heat
| from my mom on these topics to last a
| lifetime.
|
| Karlee, Your mom needs to take a pill. Or, as I've suggested befo
| tranquilizer darts. Slip some roofies in her drink, and let her wake up
a
| week later, a cast member in the worldwide tour of "Up with People!"
:-)
|
| This too, shall pass.
|
| Kathy N-V, whose mom seriously wanted to talk about my daughter's future
| marriage plans. The kid is 13. She has no plans that don't involve
Barbie
| and Ken, and I'm happy to keep it that way for now.


I'm not trying to shoot you down...really. I'm just telling you what I
know from my first experience with all of this,
and that I don't want a repeat. It was pure hell. It wasn't fun when I
was in the hospital and had one of my cousins
outright laughing at me when my milk suddenly, and like a dam breaking,
came in. It sure wasn't funny when the doc came
in to look at my incision and had to ask 15 people to leave the room and
they objected. I was NOT amused.

I just want to make sure that I haven't lost my mind with wanting time for
me and the family and a little privacy. Mom
was acting like I had slipped a groove again.

Hugs
Karlee in Kansas

There have recently been some new exceptions to the expensive adoptions. We have
come across an agency in our state that will pay for all of the adoptive parents'
costs, if they make less than a certain amount, and they have a sliding scale above
that. I read through their policy and they are very fair in that provision, as far
as I can see. DH and I are going to the agency's orientation in November, and
hopefully will be able to adopt an infant and an older child very soon. We fall
under the maximum income for paid fees, so we're very optimistic. Right now, we're
already getting our house ready for the home studies, and we fully expect to have at
least one child in our arms three or four months after I have my hysterectomy next
June. We've always wanted to adopt, but we wanted to give my body one last chance to
conceive, too. We both love children very much, and don't really care how they come
to us. I've also given up a child for adoption, so this is like it's coming full
circle. We would welcome a mixed race or cross cultural child into our home, but
only after studying about the other culture, so that we can teach that child his or
her ethnic heritage, and the agency we're looking at is very amenable to this. I am
not sure how many agencies there are like this one, but I will ask, and let y'all
know.

--
Jalynne
Queen Gypsy (snail mail available upon request)
see what i've been up to at www.100megsfree4.com/jalynne
or look at my layouts at
http://www.azurewave.com/photopost/s...at=500&thumb=1

"Lee S. Billings" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...


"Lee S. Billings" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

Many private adoption agencies WILL NOT place a
black or mixed-race child with a white candidate couple, even if the
couple would accept one.


Is that really still true?

I wouldn't have thought that would be legal any more...

It wouldn't be legal for *government* agencies. Private ones can still get away
with it, though. This issue came up on a mailing list a while back, and I
actually did some gasp RESEARCH! I called every adoption agency that had a
local phone listing, said I was doing a paper for a class, and asked several
questions. One of them was, specifically, "Would you place a black or
mixed-race child with a white couple?" One or two said yes; one said they would
do it only if the bio-mother approved; the others all said no.

Celine

--
Handmade jewelry at http://www.rubylane.com/shops/starcat
"Only the powers of evil claim that doing good is boring."
-- Diane Duane, _Nightfall at Algemron_