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#41
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"Dianne Lewandowski" posted:
The question was gender neutral. I'm not making a case for one side or the other. A male can be a homemaker just as can a female. :-) When I True, but you miss the point that a person, parent can work, and still feel their children/family is the top priority. Work to live, not live to work. What is common perception here, is that all working parents have the same attitude, unless they're "poor & have to" Ellice, did you take the test? Dianne |
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#42
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Dianne Lewandowski wrote:
The question was gender neutral. I'm not making a case for one side or the other. A male can be a homemaker just as can a female. :-) When I lived in Illinois, a neighbor did just that: Dad stayed home, PhD mom brought home the bacon. Somebody has to raise the children. Day Care, in the main, isn't teaching child basic manners and civil behaviors. Unless, of course, you make a zillion dollars and can afford the type of Day Care that does this responsibly and has sufficient staff to do it responsibly. The question as you relayed it here was NOT gender neutral. You said that one cannot be a good mother without being a homemaker. I disagree. Even if you make it gender neutral by saying one cannot be a good parent without being a homemaker, it still doesn't hold. Some parents work, even in dual parent households (duh). The working parent is not automatically a lesser parent. Elizabeth -- *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* |
#43
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On 1/14/04 2:36 PM,"Dianne Lewandowski" posted:
"Dianne Lewandowski" posted: The question was gender neutral. I'm not making a case for one side or the other. A male can be a homemaker just as can a female. :-) When I True, but you miss the point that a person, parent can work, and still feel their children/family is the top priority. Work to live, not live to work. What is common perception here, is that all working parents have the same attitude, unless they're "poor & have to" Ellice, did you take the test? Yup. Amazingly - I'm evidently right about the same as the Dalai Lama - alhtough I don't know what that really says about anything. Left of center, south of authoritarian. Almost dead center of the Lower Left. But what I was referring to above was your conversation with Elizabeth (IIRC) which was more open to the whole idea of the working mother, parent - although it stemmed from the question in the test. And, FWIW, the question about the homemaker was specific to women, as in "A mother's primary job is to be a homemaker" - or close to it. I just haven't felt like jumping in much on this - but I think the questions were written clearly with some bias. The first, what you felt interesting, is that they force you to choose a response, and don't allow the "no opinion" option. The wording on some of the questions is clearly designed to make you think about which way it's being presented. In statistics, when you design a test, there is an art to the presentation of a "null hypothesis" - frequently a problem is stated so that in essence you prove by contradiction, or set up your basic hypothesis to be what you actually don't want to show as true. And people who design questionnaires work hard at the wording - sometimes to put a positive thought first, or to try and bias for a desired result. It can be very subtle. Even the scales that you use for your answers have different qualities - the order - do they go from negative to positive, is it a number, is it a scale, etc. Honestly, for me - there was no great surprise - I know that I'm a strong believer in civil liberties, but also somewhat "pragmatic" with regard to how the world, politics work, and what I feel may be necessary in the course of protecting the right to live as luxuriously, frivolously, as we do - i.e. Being able to have nice roads, clean public facilities, schools, sports, time to do needlework, free time for entertainment. So, in many opinions that may make me somewhat conservative (not my word) with regard to defense, the need for it, and where I place my skepticism. Since I know people who abuse the system - in uniform and out, and in the media - I just share it all around ;^) ellice |
#44
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On 1/14/04 8:36 PM,"Dr. Brat" posted:
Dianne Lewandowski wrote: The question was gender neutral. I'm not making a case for one side or the other. A male can be a homemaker just as can a female. :-) When I lived in Illinois, a neighbor did just that: Dad stayed home, PhD mom brought home the bacon. Somebody has to raise the children. Day Care, in the main, isn't teaching child basic manners and civil behaviors. Unless, of course, you make a zillion dollars and can afford the type of Day Care that does this responsibly and has sufficient staff to do it responsibly. The question as you relayed it here was NOT gender neutral. You said that one cannot be a good mother without being a homemaker. I disagree. Even if you make it gender neutral by saying one cannot be a good parent without being a homemaker, it still doesn't hold. Some parents work, even in dual parent households (duh). The working parent is not automatically a lesser parent. Exactly - well said, Elizabeth. IME - some of our working parent friends seem to be truly good parents - of course, that is to the point that they are perpetually tired. OTOH, some non-working parents I know are pretty crappy (as in self-centered, and yelling a lot) parents. One circumstance of life doesn't necessarily dictate the other in this particular example - at least in my opinion. Ellice |
#45
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I know. I retracted the "gender neutral" part in a later post. g
But one has to be careful, in our current society, to make sweeping statements either way. Working parents are not necessarily the "lesser", but they're not necessarily the "equal", either. It's a case-by-case situation. Judging by public information ads, documentaries I've seen, articles I've read, we're pretty mixed up about parenting these days. Dianne Dr. Brat wrote: Dianne Lewandowski wrote: The question was gender neutral. I'm not making a case for one side or the other. A male can be a homemaker just as can a female. :-) When I lived in Illinois, a neighbor did just that: Dad stayed home, PhD mom brought home the bacon. Somebody has to raise the children. Day Care, in the main, isn't teaching child basic manners and civil behaviors. Unless, of course, you make a zillion dollars and can afford the type of Day Care that does this responsibly and has sufficient staff to do it responsibly. The question as you relayed it here was NOT gender neutral. You said that one cannot be a good mother without being a homemaker. I disagree. Even if you make it gender neutral by saying one cannot be a good parent without being a homemaker, it still doesn't hold. Some parents work, even in dual parent households (duh). The working parent is not automatically a lesser parent. Elizabeth |
#46
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"Dianne Lewandowski" wrote in message
... I know. I retracted the "gender neutral" part in a later post. g But one has to be careful, in our current society, to make sweeping statements either way. Working parents are not necessarily the "lesser", but they're not necessarily the "equal", either. It's a case-by-case situation. Judging by public information ads, documentaries I've seen, articles I've read, we're pretty mixed up about parenting these days. Dianne Dr. Brat wrote: Dianne Lewandowski wrote: The question was gender neutral. I'm not making a case for one side or the other. A male can be a homemaker just as can a female. :-) When I lived in Illinois, a neighbor did just that: Dad stayed home, PhD mom brought home the bacon. Somebody has to raise the children. Day Care, in the main, isn't teaching child basic manners and civil behaviors. Unless, of course, you make a zillion dollars and can afford the type of Day Care that does this responsibly and has sufficient staff to do it responsibly. The question as you relayed it here was NOT gender neutral. You said that one cannot be a good mother without being a homemaker. I disagree. Even if you make it gender neutral by saying one cannot be a good parent without being a homemaker, it still doesn't hold. Some parents work, even in dual parent households (duh). The working parent is not automatically a lesser parent. Elizabeth The way I read that question was that if your children are your priority, all your life decisions will incorporate that. Whether or not you have to work, you still do your best by them. The opposite end of the scale would be the parent pursuing personal happiness as a priority and the children fitting in (or not). Thanks for the link, Dianne. I feel better about not being 'successful' when I am in company with Nelson Mandela and Ghandi!!! Carolyn U.K. |
#47
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Cryn wrote:
The way I read that question was that if your children are your priority, all your life decisions will incorporate that. Whether or not you have to work, you still do your best by them. The opposite end of the scale would be the parent pursuing personal happiness as a priority and the children fitting in (or not). Thanks for the link, Dianne. I feel better about not being 'successful' when I am in company with Nelson Mandela and Ghandi!!! Boy, that's at least four times this morning I've read posts that have said what I wanted to say and failed miserably. Thank you!! That's how *I* read that question. It certainly raised a LOT of emotional reaction. And it did for me when I first read the darn question. I had to think long and hard before I answered it. Dianne |
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