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#1
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Bernina fraud on eBay
Yes, it's unfortunate but true that Berninas and other high end sewing
machines are frequent fraud items on eBay. However, the auction Phaedrine referenced appears to be legitimate. Yes, Bernina says only the tech is supposed to be able to see how many hours are on the machine, but everyone who belongs to any of the several online list groups for Bernina owners knows you just have to hold down the Clear button while you turn on the machine to see the number of sewing and embroidery hours on the machines. But there are a lot of terrific, honest sellers on eBay selling great machines at substantial savings over new machines and it would be a shame for people to lose out on those great deals out of fear, Here are some tips on how to buy a great used machine on eBay, and how NOT to be a victim of fraud: 1. Avoid short 1-day and 3-day auctions; they are often scams (thieves steal the user ID and password of real eBay sellers and post a fraudulent auction for an item they don't even have, using stolen photos and text from a closed auction. They do the short auction because they are hoping someone will fall for their scam quickly, before the seller whose ID they have stolen discovers the listing and reports it to eBay. Real sellers want as many potential buyers to see their auction as possible, so legitimate auctions will usually run 7 or 10 days. 2. When an auction description says "Contact me at my private email address for a buy it now price," RUN RUN RUN!! Again, this is a warning sign that the seller's ID has been hijacked, because if you use the "ask seller a question" feature through eBay it would send an email to the REAL person who is registered with ebay, not to the thief who wants to steal your money. 3. Don't send anyone money through Western Union, because you have no recourse that way if no machine is ever shipped to you. Instead, pay with PayPal -- it's free to buyers, it gives you built in fraud protection through eBay and through PayPal, and if you pay with your credit card through PayPal you have additional protection through your credit card company in the event you get suckered into a scam -- they will reverse the charge back to you and you will not be out any money (AmEx is especially great with that). 4. The best advice I could give ANYONE looking to buy a used machine on eBay is to get to know the seller by asking questions through the Ask Seller a Question feature. Ask why they are selling the machine, how many crazy quilting stitches does it have, how do you set it up for free motion quilting -- whatever you can think of, but SOMETHING that a crook in an internet cafe in Eastern Europe somewhere will not be able to answer, but that an honest, real sewer would know about her machine. I have bought AND sold several high end sewing machines on eBay, and I wouldn't be able to afford all of the fancy toys I have in my sewing room if I had to buy them all brand new from the dealer, so I speak from experience that good deals are out there to be had -- you just have to watch out for those few rotten apples trying to spoil it for everyone else! Rebecca |
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#2
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Bernina fraud on eBay
sewfine wrote:
Yes, it's unfortunate but true that Berninas and other high end sewing machines are frequent fraud items on eBay. However, the auction Phaedrine referenced appears to be legitimate. Yes, Bernina says only the tech is supposed to be able to see how many hours are on the machine, but everyone who belongs to any of the several online list groups for Bernina owners knows you just have to hold down the Clear button while you turn on the machine to see the number of sewing and embroidery hours on the machines. But there are a lot of terrific, honest sellers on eBay selling great machines at substantial savings over new machines and it would be a shame for people to lose out on those great deals out of fear, Here are some tips on how to buy a great used machine on eBay, and how NOT to be a victim of fraud: 1. Avoid short 1-day and 3-day auctions; they are often scams (thieves steal the user ID and password of real eBay sellers and post a fraudulent auction for an item they don't even have, using stolen photos and text from a closed auction. They do the short auction because they are hoping someone will fall for their scam quickly, before the seller whose ID they have stolen discovers the listing and reports it to eBay. Real sellers want as many potential buyers to see their auction as possible, so legitimate auctions will usually run 7 or 10 days. 2. When an auction description says "Contact me at my private email address for a buy it now price," RUN RUN RUN!! Again, this is a warning sign that the seller's ID has been hijacked, because if you use the "ask seller a question" feature through eBay it would send an email to the REAL person who is registered with ebay, not to the thief who wants to steal your money. 3. Don't send anyone money through Western Union, because you have no recourse that way if no machine is ever shipped to you. Instead, pay with PayPal -- it's free to buyers, it gives you built in fraud protection through eBay and through PayPal, and if you pay with your credit card through PayPal you have additional protection through your credit card company in the event you get suckered into a scam -- they will reverse the charge back to you and you will not be out any money (AmEx is especially great with that). 4. The best advice I could give ANYONE looking to buy a used machine on eBay is to get to know the seller by asking questions through the Ask Seller a Question feature. Ask why they are selling the machine, how many crazy quilting stitches does it have, how do you set it up for free motion quilting -- whatever you can think of, but SOMETHING that a crook in an internet cafe in Eastern Europe somewhere will not be able to answer, but that an honest, real sewer would know about her machine. I have bought AND sold several high end sewing machines on eBay, and I wouldn't be able to afford all of the fancy toys I have in my sewing room if I had to buy them all brand new from the dealer, so I speak from experience that good deals are out there to be had -- you just have to watch out for those few rotten apples trying to spoil it for everyone else! Rebecca Thanks Rebecca, this is very good advice. I know several people who sell (and buy) machines on eBay, and it's still true that *most* people are honest. The trouble is that the few who aren't make such an impression that people tend to forget about the good ones. Your description of taken over accounts is excellent, I would just add that sometimes they are also able to take over the email account of the real eBayer. It's so important to have different passwords for different accounts. For eBay, I pay *only* with Paypal, and fund the payment with a credit card. As you say, that gives maximum security - either Paypal or my credit card company will protect me from loss. But using your head is also good. As usual. ;-) If a deal is too good to be true, then it most likely is. I know that Phaedrine wants to be helpful here, but some of the biggest crooks I've run into have been sewing machine dealers. There's a few in every pot, I guess. -- Joanne stitches @ singerlady.reno.nv.us.earth.milky-way.com http://members.tripod.com/~bernardschopen/ |
#3
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Bernina fraud on eBay
I wouldn't buy anything from this particular seller. The usenet rules
are no ads. This seller has continually disregarded the rules. They don't mean anything to her. So why would you buy something from someone that thinks rules aren't for them? Too many really good sellers around to put up with the attitude IMO. Buyer beware. I'd say buyer stay away in this case. I buy a lot of stuff on Ebay and steering clear of this type a buyer has worked pretty well. sewfine wrote: Yes, it's unfortunate but true that Berninas and other high end sewing machines are frequent fraud items on eBay. However, the auction Phaedrine referenced appears to be legitimate. Yes, Bernina says only the tech is supposed to be able to see how many hours are on the machine, but everyone who belongs to any of the several online list groups for Bernina owners knows you just have to hold down the Clear button while you turn on the machine to see the number of sewing and embroidery hours on the machines. But there are a lot of terrific, honest sellers on eBay selling great machines at substantial savings over new machines and it would be a shame for people to lose out on those great deals out of fear, Here are some tips on how to buy a great used machine on eBay, and how NOT to be a victim of fraud: 1. Avoid short 1-day and 3-day auctions; they are often scams (thieves steal the user ID and password of real eBay sellers and post a fraudulent auction for an item they don't even have, using stolen photos and text from a closed auction. They do the short auction because they are hoping someone will fall for their scam quickly, before the seller whose ID they have stolen discovers the listing and reports it to eBay. Real sellers want as many potential buyers to see their auction as possible, so legitimate auctions will usually run 7 or 10 days. 2. When an auction description says "Contact me at my private email address for a buy it now price," RUN RUN RUN!! Again, this is a warning sign that the seller's ID has been hijacked, because if you use the "ask seller a question" feature through eBay it would send an email to the REAL person who is registered with ebay, not to the thief who wants to steal your money. 3. Don't send anyone money through Western Union, because you have no recourse that way if no machine is ever shipped to you. Instead, pay with PayPal -- it's free to buyers, it gives you built in fraud protection through eBay and through PayPal, and if you pay with your credit card through PayPal you have additional protection through your credit card company in the event you get suckered into a scam -- they will reverse the charge back to you and you will not be out any money (AmEx is especially great with that). 4. The best advice I could give ANYONE looking to buy a used machine on eBay is to get to know the seller by asking questions through the Ask Seller a Question feature. Ask why they are selling the machine, how many crazy quilting stitches does it have, how do you set it up for free motion quilting -- whatever you can think of, but SOMETHING that a crook in an internet cafe in Eastern Europe somewhere will not be able to answer, but that an honest, real sewer would know about her machine. I have bought AND sold several high end sewing machines on eBay, and I wouldn't be able to afford all of the fancy toys I have in my sewing room if I had to buy them all brand new from the dealer, so I speak from experience that good deals are out there to be had -- you just have to watch out for those few rotten apples trying to spoil it for everyone else! Rebecca |
#4
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Bernina fraud on eBay
Taria wrote:
I wouldn't buy anything from this particular seller. The usenet rules are no ads. This seller has continually disregarded the rules. They don't mean anything to her. So why would you buy something from someone that thinks rules aren't for them? Too many really good sellers around to put up with the attitude IMO. Buyer beware. I'd say buyer stay away in this case. I buy a lot of stuff on Ebay and steering clear of this type a buyer has worked pretty well. OK, I'm confused. Are you referring to the poster "Jen"? Because if you are, I'm really confused. I had wondered why this person posts different auctions - the only thing they seem to have in common is that they are embroidery-sewing machines. They have different sellers, different locations, different machines - the only common thread I can see is that "Jen" posts the url. -- Joanne stitches @ singerlady.reno.nv.us.earth.milky-way.com http://members.tripod.com/~bernardschopen/ |
#5
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Bernina fraud on eBay
I assumed the Jan (OP) was the seller. I really am not sure what she
is up to. I would bet she is affiliated with the one seller that has shown up more than once and is making an effort to camouflage that by tossing in other sellers. It is one thing to drop in with a comment about an auction. OP isn't doing that. MAybe time to get Kate to pull out her troll recipe. I'm really not sure. I just wouldn't bid and if she was messing with my auction (as a seller) I'd contact ebay. Taria (I meant seller in the last line of my previous post) Pogonip wrote: Taria wrote: I wouldn't buy anything from this particular seller. The usenet rules are no ads. This seller has continually disregarded the rules. They don't mean anything to her. So why would you buy something from someone that thinks rules aren't for them? Too many really good sellers around to put up with the attitude IMO. Buyer beware. I'd say buyer stay away in this case. I buy a lot of stuff on Ebay and steering clear of this type a buyer has worked pretty well. OK, I'm confused. Are you referring to the poster "Jen"? Because if you are, I'm really confused. I had wondered why this person posts different auctions - the only thing they seem to have in common is that they are embroidery-sewing machines. They have different sellers, different locations, different machines - the only common thread I can see is that "Jen" posts the url. |
#6
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Bernina fraud on eBay
Taria wrote:
I assumed the Jan (OP) was the seller. I really am not sure what she is up to. I would bet she is affiliated with the one seller that has shown up more than once and is making an effort to camouflage that by tossing in other sellers. It is one thing to drop in with a comment about an auction. OP isn't doing that. MAybe time to get Kate to pull out her troll recipe. I'm really not sure. I just wouldn't bid and if she was messing with my auction (as a seller) I'd contact ebay. Taria (I meant seller in the last line of my previous post) Another problem is that this Jan is posting through an anonymizer, which does not speak well for his/her intentions. For now, I choose to ignore any posts from Jan. Heaven knows, I'm not shopping for any more machines!!!!!! -- Joanne stitches @ singerlady.reno.nv.us.earth.milky-way.com http://members.tripod.com/~bernardschopen/ |
#7
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Bernina fraud on eBay
Pogonip wrote:
Another problem is that this Jan is posting through an anonymizer, which does not speak well for his/her intentions. For now, I choose to ignore any posts from Jan. Heaven knows, I'm not shopping for any more machines!!!!!! In addition to which, the Terms of Service of eBay specifically prohibit spamming Usenet. Unfortunately, eBay does not provide an "abuse@" address for reporting inappropriate ads. Beverly |
#8
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Bernina fraud on eBay
BEI Design wrote:
Pogonip wrote: Another problem is that this Jan is posting through an anonymizer, which does not speak well for his/her intentions. For now, I choose to ignore any posts from Jan. Heaven knows, I'm not shopping for any more machines!!!!!! In addition to which, the Terms of Service of eBay specifically prohibit spamming Usenet. Unfortunately, eBay does not provide an "abuse@" address for reporting inappropriate ads. Beverly The problem there is that Trust & Safety chastises the seller in the auction and there is no apparent connection between this Jan and these various sellers. Even if there were, the headers in the posts are not a registered eBay address and a connection would be impossible to prove. So one of two things would happen. A rushed CSR could put a strike against the seller, when it wasn't the seller doing the spamming; or absolutely nothing would be done beyond sending a boiler-plate message that "we are investigating but due to privacy restrictions cannot inform you of any action which may or may not be taken." -- Joanne stitches @ singerlady.reno.nv.us.earth.milky-way.com http://members.tripod.com/~bernardschopen/ |
#9
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Bernina fraud on eBay
Taria wrote:
I assumed the Jan (OP) was the seller. I really am not sure what she is up to. I would bet she is affiliated with the one seller that has shown up more than once and is making an effort to camouflage that by tossing in other sellers. It is one thing to drop in with a comment about an auction. OP isn't doing that. MAybe time to get Kate to pull out her troll recipe. I'm really not sure. I just wouldn't bid and if she was messing with my auction (as a seller) I'd contact ebay. Taria (I meant seller in the last line of my previous post) English BBQ'D Troll First polish up your BBQ, removing all rust and flood damage, and don your special shoes (http://www.styledash.com/2007/07/02/...y-scuba-diver/) Lie in wait in the bottom of your rubber boat with a large net, and when the troll floats past on its log, snag it. Remember to rescue the Bernina and send it to the OSMG for TLC. Fire up the BBQ while you scrub the troll and tie it to a spit. Make lots of salad... Put some rolls in the oven to bake. When it rains, go inside and heat up that vat of chicken soup you made yesterday and serve it with the rolls. When the floods finally subside, you'll find the clean-up crews have removed the troll along with all the debris. -- Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons http://www.katedicey.co.uk Click on Kate's Pages and explore! |
#10
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Bernina fraud on eBay
Hi, Phaedrine.
I didn't claim to KNOW the auction was legitimate; I only said it appeared legit to me -- in my opinion. I have no idea who this seller is! My only interest in posting was to defend legitimate eBay sellers and give would-be buyers some safety tips for online auctions. Actually, I had not realized that this person lists lots of machines and sends anonymous links to all the newsgroups about them -- in that case, then, I agree it's a red flag and I would stay away from that auction too. But you stated: A buyer should only trust the word of an independent, credible third party as to the status of the machine, preferably an authorized Bernina technician who has no vested interest in the sale outcome or a Bernina dealer who is offering a warranty. Okay, so where are we supposed to find this neutral authorized Bernina technician who has no vested interest in the transaction? If you bring a used machine in for your local dealer's tech to look at, and tech works for the local dealer (even if he is an independent contractor, he still gets his work through the dealer and is somewhat beholden to him or her). So if the dealer is selling the used machine and their tech is checking it out for you, that tech is not an independant third party. If you take the used machine to a different Bernina dealer and ask THEIR tech to look at the machine, it's in THEIR interest to dissuade you from buying the used machine so you'll buy a new one from them instead. And incidentally, I know of several people ranting and raving across the internet because they bought brand new machines from authorized dealers that were lemons and had to go back over and over again for service and still don't work right! And buying the machine from an authorized dealer who is offering a warranty isn't that much protection anyway -- haven't you noticed the tendency for things not to break until right AFTER the warranty expires? Even on a new Bernina you only get 1 year electrical parts and 5 years mechanical parts. If I'm spending thousands of dollars on a machine, it had better last longer than 5 yrs! So when you're buying a new machine at full price, you're betting on a long shot -- that something serious will go wrong with it immediately that will cost thousands of dollars to fix. Because if it DOESN'T break during the warranty period, you paid thousands of dollars more than you had to when you could have gotten a used machine My experience was that I went into my local Bernina dealer asking to trade in my Artista 180E for a new 200E a few years ago, and they told me that they don't take trade-ins and suggest that people sell their machines on eBay instead. So that's what I did -- I sold that machine, and the person who bought it from me got no warranty but they got it at less than half what I had paid for it new just a few years before. I would have preferred to trade it in at the dealer and not have to spend all that time writing up the description, doing all the photos, answering questions, shipping, etc., but I didn't have that option and neither does anyone else around here unless our dealer changes her policy. Personally, I think she's being stupid -- I had never even thought of buying or selling a sewing machine on eBay before she sent me there, and I ended up buying my 200E used on eBay so she lost the sale. If I was a dealer I would accept trade ins and resell them with a limited warranty or rent them out as spares when people have their machines in for service, or for people just wanting to learn sewing who need some encouragement to take the plunge and purchase a machine, but that's neither here nor there. Whether you buy a new or used machine, there is always the possibility that something will go wrong. The only way to Caveat emptor. -- I fear me you but warm the starved snake Who, cherished in your breasts, will sting your hearts. (Henry VI,Shakespeare) |
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