Kinda off-topic, but no good clay groups to post to

I'm posting here in the hopes that someone will have experience with
modelling clays. The only group that exists for this subject is quite
unused, sadly. I just have a question about clay quality.

I bought some "plasticina" modelling clay from a company called Studio
Basics. I paid $3.95 for a 1 pound block. It's non-drying for claymation
type work.

My question is this: Is it normal for these kinds of clays to have specks
of the colors that were used to make them? It seems like poor-quality clay
to me; I can't imagine that pros use something like this. I'm finding it
really difficult to work with as I'll be trying to get a shape with it and
suddenly a speck of a different color will appear and ruin my progress. I'm
pretty sure it's not me being careless and contaminating the clay myself.
I've torn through to the middle of a block and clearly it is the clay that
is not mixed well. I really hope that I'm not expected to boil/melt it
before I can use it - I simply and not prepared to go through that at this
point.

Any advice on better quality (but not expensive) clays of this type would
be greatly appreciated, also.

TIA

I bought some "plasticina" modelling clay from a company called Studio
Basics. I paid $3.95 for a 1 pound block. It's non-drying for claymation
type work.

My question is this: Is it normal for these kinds of clays to have specks
of the colors that were used to make them? It seems like poor-quality clay
to me; I can't imagine that pros use something like this. I'm finding it
really difficult to work with as I'll be trying to get a shape with it and
suddenly a speck of a different color will appear and ruin my progress.

Phil:
It's not you, that is a poor quality clay. Obviously their quality control
was out to lunch when that batch was made.
If you can, return it as "defective"
and try another brand.

There are plenty of brands on the market that do not have those issues. A
google search will send you to various sources for it.

Hope that helps, and Happy Easter!
Wayne Seidl

All I can tell you is that potters wedge their clay and this is done for a
variety of reasons. If the wet clay was made adding water to the dry clay,
then the clay is not going to be equally "wet". Wedging gets out air
pockets, aligns the clay particles in the same direction, makes the clay
body consistent throughout, etc. It certainly is not difficult to do and it
would deal with the issue you are having. It is different in how you would
knead bread dough in that with the first you want to take air out of the
product and with the other you are trying to incorporate air. So with
kneading bread you take large folds of the dough which catches pockets of
air. With wedging you take very small folds that are pushed back into the
body with the heal of the hand in such a way that it is layer pushed onto
layer.

I know this does not really answer you question but if you can get someone
to demonstrate wedging for you it will solve your problem.

DK

"Phil" wrote in message
...
I'm posting here in the hopes that someone will have experience with
modelling clays. The only group that exists for this subject is quite
unused, sadly. I just have a question about clay quality.

I bought some "plasticina" modelling clay from a company called Studio
Basics. I paid $3.95 for a 1 pound block. It's non-drying for claymation
type work.

My question is this: Is it normal for these kinds of clays to have specks
of the colors that were used to make them? It seems like poor-quality clay
to me; I can't imagine that pros use something like this. I'm finding it
really difficult to work with as I'll be trying to get a shape with it and
suddenly a speck of a different color will appear and ruin my progress.
I'm
pretty sure it's not me being careless and contaminating the clay myself.
I've torn through to the middle of a block and clearly it is the clay that
is not mixed well. I really hope that I'm not expected to boil/melt it
before I can use it - I simply and not prepared to go through that at this
point.

Any advice on better quality (but not expensive) clays of this type would
be greatly appreciated, also.

TIA

Actually, the actions of wedging and kneading dough are similar. It is the
action of the yeast that adds the air, not the kneading. Steve in Tampa,
Florida, USA

"dkat" wrote in message
t...
All I can tell you is that potters wedge their clay and this is done for a
variety of reasons. If the wet clay was made adding water to the dry
clay,
then the clay is not going to be equally "wet". Wedging gets out air
pockets, aligns the clay particles in the same direction, makes the clay
body consistent throughout, etc. It certainly is not difficult to do and
it
would deal with the issue you are having. It is different in how you
would
knead bread dough in that with the first you want to take air out of the
product and with the other you are trying to incorporate air. So with
kneading bread you take large folds of the dough which catches pockets
of
air. With wedging you take very small folds that are pushed back into the
body with the heal of the hand in such a way that it is layer pushed onto
layer.

I know this does not really answer you question but if you can get someone
to demonstrate wedging for you it will solve your problem.

DK

"Phil" wrote in message
...
I'm posting here in the hopes that someone will have experience with
modelling clays. The only group that exists for this subject is quite
unused, sadly. I just have a question about clay quality.

I bought some "plasticina" modelling clay from a company called Studio
Basics. I paid $3.95 for a 1 pound block. It's non-drying for claymation
type work.

My question is this: Is it normal for these kinds of clays to have
specks
of the colors that were used to make them? It seems like poor-quality
clay
to me; I can't imagine that pros use something like this. I'm finding it
really difficult to work with as I'll be trying to get a shape with it
and
suddenly a speck of a different color will appear and ruin my progress.
I'm
pretty sure it's not me being careless and contaminating the clay
myself.
I've torn through to the middle of a block and clearly it is the clay
that
is not mixed well. I really hope that I'm not expected to boil/melt it
before I can use it - I simply and not prepared to go through that at
this
point.

Any advice on better quality (but not expensive) clays of this type
would
be greatly appreciated, also.

TIA

I wedge clay and I knead dough. The way I do it and the way everyone I know
who does it, it is two different processes. In one you want to eliminate
air and I had thought until now that in the other you want air (I did not
realize it was an anaerobic reaction).... I still stick by it being done
differently though (with bread you typically do quarter turns, pull the
bread towards you, fold over and then push it away, turn it a quarter and
repeat... with clay you take very small pulls, do NOT fold over, push away
..... really hard to describe).

"In breads leavened with yeast, however, the yeast cells grow under
anaerobic conditions and cannot convert glucose molecules completely to gas.
Some sugar molecules get sidetracked and are converted into alcohols, acids,
and esters--substances which add to bread's "


flavor"Mud Dawg" wrote in message
om...
Actually, the actions of wedging and kneading dough are similar. It is the
action of the yeast that adds the air, not the kneading. Steve in Tampa,
Florida, USA

"dkat" wrote in message
t...
All I can tell you is that potters wedge their clay and this is done for
a
variety of reasons. If the wet clay was made adding water to the dry
clay,
then the clay is not going to be equally "wet". Wedging gets out air
pockets, aligns the clay particles in the same direction, makes the clay
body consistent throughout, etc. It certainly is not difficult to do
and
it
would deal with the issue you are having. It is different in how you
would
knead bread dough in that with the first you want to take air out of the
product and with the other you are trying to incorporate air. So with
kneading bread you take large folds of the dough which catches pockets
of
air. With wedging you take very small folds that are pushed back into
the
body with the heal of the hand in such a way that it is layer pushed
onto
layer.

I know this does not really answer you question but if you can get
someone
to demonstrate wedging for you it will solve your problem.

DK

"Phil" wrote in message
...
I'm posting here in the hopes that someone will have experience with
modelling clays. The only group that exists for this subject is quite
unused, sadly. I just have a question about clay quality.

I bought some "plasticina" modelling clay from a company called Studio
Basics. I paid $3.95 for a 1 pound block. It's non-drying for
claymation
type work.

My question is this: Is it normal for these kinds of clays to have
specks
of the colors that were used to make them? It seems like poor-quality
clay
to me; I can't imagine that pros use something like this. I'm finding
it
really difficult to work with as I'll be trying to get a shape with it
and
suddenly a speck of a different color will appear and ruin my
progress.
I'm
pretty sure it's not me being careless and contaminating the clay
myself.
I've torn through to the middle of a block and clearly it is the clay
that
is not mixed well. I really hope that I'm not expected to boil/melt it
before I can use it - I simply and not prepared to go through that at
this
point.

Any advice on better quality (but not expensive) clays of this type
would
be greatly appreciated, also.

TIA

Dkat:
Actually, that is not completely accurate.
With "ramshorn" style wedging (which
you described quite nicely) it's true that
one does not rotate the clay.

However, with "spiral" style wedging
(which seems easier on my wrists BTW)
once the clay is pulled, it is rotated
anywhere from 90 to 120 degrees
(in either direction, doesn't matter) before
pushing. This incorporates the clay into
itself, and helps push the air out to the edge.

A small matter, really, since both accomplish
the same thing...the removal of air from the clay.
I did note that with spiral wedging, you end up with
a "cone" shape, which then goes directly onto
the wheel with no further shaping...saves time.

I tried "wedging" my bread recently, having
started to knead it and lapsing into a more
familiar pattern g. It didn't work very well,
though I noticed that for incorporation of
ingredients (like cinnamon) into the dough,
spiral wedging does give a nice pattern to
the dough, and may actually be advised,
once the dough is properly kneaded first.

The loaf came out looking like a giant
cinnamon sticky bun..yum! Didn't taste at
all like clay or have the weight of clay either
(thank goodness!)
Happy Easter!
Wayne Seidl


"dkat" wrote in message
t...
I wedge clay and I knead dough. The way I do it and the way everyone I
know
who does it, it is two different processes. In one you want to eliminate
air and I had thought until now that in the other you want air (I did not
realize it was an anaerobic reaction).... I still stick by it being done
differently though (with bread you typically do quarter turns, pull the
bread towards you, fold over and then push it away, turn it a quarter and
repeat... with clay you take very small pulls, do NOT fold over, push away
.... really hard to describe).

"In breads leavened with yeast, however, the yeast cells grow under
anaerobic conditions and cannot convert glucose molecules completely to
gas.
Some sugar molecules get sidetracked and are converted into alcohols,
acids,
and esters--substances which add to bread's "


flavor"Mud Dawg" wrote in message
om...
Actually, the actions of wedging and kneading dough are similar. It is
the
action of the yeast that adds the air, not the kneading. Steve in
Tampa,
Florida, USA

"dkat" wrote in message
t...
All I can tell you is that potters wedge their clay and this is done
for
a
variety of reasons. If the wet clay was made adding water to the dry
clay,
then the clay is not going to be equally "wet". Wedging gets out air
pockets, aligns the clay particles in the same direction, makes the
clay
body consistent throughout, etc. It certainly is not difficult to do
and
it
would deal with the issue you are having. It is different in how you
would
knead bread dough in that with the first you want to take air out of
the
product and with the other you are trying to incorporate air. So with
kneading bread you take large folds of the dough which catches
pockets
of
air. With wedging you take very small folds that are pushed back into
the
body with the heal of the hand in such a way that it is layer pushed
onto
layer.

I know this does not really answer you question but if you can get
someone
to demonstrate wedging for you it will solve your problem.

DK

"Phil" wrote in message
...
I'm posting here in the hopes that someone will have experience with
modelling clays. The only group that exists for this subject is
quite
unused, sadly. I just have a question about clay quality.

I bought some "plasticina" modelling clay from a company called
Studio
Basics. I paid $3.95 for a 1 pound block. It's non-drying for
claymation
type work.

My question is this: Is it normal for these kinds of clays to have
specks
of the colors that were used to make them? It seems like
poor-quality
clay
to me; I can't imagine that pros use something like this. I'm
finding
it
really difficult to work with as I'll be trying to get a shape with
it
and
suddenly a speck of a different color will appear and ruin my
progress.
I'm
pretty sure it's not me being careless and contaminating the clay
myself.
I've torn through to the middle of a block and clearly it is the
clay
that
is not mixed well. I really hope that I'm not expected to boil/melt
it
before I can use it - I simply and not prepared to go through that
at
this
point.

Any advice on better quality (but not expensive) clays of this type
would
be greatly appreciated, also.

TIA

Hi Phil:

http://www.kleanklay.com

This is my source for plasticine clay. They have all kinds of colors and
firmnesses. Many companies resell this clay. But, if what you purchased
wasn't from this company, then you might want to give them a try. Their
modeling clay seems to be the most consistent in quality. Call them up.
They will fax or email you a price list. Their prices are half what
everyone
else charges.

Diego

"Phil" wrote in message
...
I'm posting here in the hopes that someone will have experience with
modelling clays. The only group that exists for this subject is quite
unused, sadly. I just have a question about clay quality.

I bought some "plasticina" modelling clay from a company called Studio
Basics. I paid $3.95 for a 1 pound block. It's non-drying for claymation
type work.

My question is this: Is it normal for these kinds of clays to have specks
of the colors that were used to make them? It seems like poor-quality clay
to me; I can't imagine that pros use something like this. I'm finding it
really difficult to work with as I'll be trying to get a shape with it and
suddenly a speck of a different color will appear and ruin my progress.
I'm
pretty sure it's not me being careless and contaminating the clay myself.
I've torn through to the middle of a block and clearly it is the clay that
is not mixed well. I really hope that I'm not expected to boil/melt it
before I can use it - I simply and not prepared to go through that at this
point.

Any advice on better quality (but not expensive) clays of this type would
be greatly appreciated, also.

TIA

Interesting post. I want to stick in however that I was not trying to
propose a proper way of wedging (I have done both ways that is describe and
other ways as well. I have never seen two potters do things identically -
which is why we produce art and not corelle ware). I was trying to help a
poster who was having problems with his clay not being uniform. As I told
them, I was not answering their question but I hoped that I might help with
a suggestion on how to deal with the problem he was having. Someone else
actually answered their question nicely.


"wayneinkeywest" wrote in message
. ..
Dkat:
Actually, that is not completely accurate.
With "ramshorn" style wedging (which
you described quite nicely) it's true that
one does not rotate the clay.

However, with "spiral" style wedging
(which seems easier on my wrists BTW)
once the clay is pulled, it is rotated
anywhere from 90 to 120 degrees
(in either direction, doesn't matter) before
pushing. This incorporates the clay into
itself, and helps push the air out to the edge.

A small matter, really, since both accomplish
the same thing...the removal of air from the clay.
I did note that with spiral wedging, you end up with
a "cone" shape, which then goes directly onto
the wheel with no further shaping...saves time.

I tried "wedging" my bread recently, having
started to knead it and lapsing into a more
familiar pattern g. It didn't work very well,
though I noticed that for incorporation of
ingredients (like cinnamon) into the dough,
spiral wedging does give a nice pattern to
the dough, and may actually be advised,
once the dough is properly kneaded first.

The loaf came out looking like a giant
cinnamon sticky bun..yum! Didn't taste at
all like clay or have the weight of clay either
(thank goodness!)
Happy Easter!
Wayne Seidl


"dkat" wrote in message
t...
I wedge clay and I knead dough. The way I do it and the way everyone I
know
who does it, it is two different processes. In one you want to
eliminate
air and I had thought until now that in the other you want air (I did
not
realize it was an anaerobic reaction).... I still stick by it being done
differently though (with bread you typically do quarter turns, pull the
bread towards you, fold over and then push it away, turn it a quarter
and
repeat... with clay you take very small pulls, do NOT fold over, push
away
.... really hard to describe).

"In breads leavened with yeast, however, the yeast cells grow under
anaerobic conditions and cannot convert glucose molecules completely to
gas.
Some sugar molecules get sidetracked and are converted into alcohols,
acids,
and esters--substances which add to bread's "


flavor"Mud Dawg" wrote in message
om...
Actually, the actions of wedging and kneading dough are similar. It is
the
action of the yeast that adds the air, not the kneading. Steve in
Tampa,
Florida, USA

"dkat" wrote in message
t...
All I can tell you is that potters wedge their clay and this is done
for
a
variety of reasons. If the wet clay was made adding water to the
dry
clay,
then the clay is not going to be equally "wet". Wedging gets out
air
pockets, aligns the clay particles in the same direction, makes the
clay
body consistent throughout, etc. It certainly is not difficult to
do
and
it
would deal with the issue you are having. It is different in how
you
would
knead bread dough in that with the first you want to take air out of
the
product and with the other you are trying to incorporate air. So
with
kneading bread you take large folds of the dough which catches
pockets
of
air. With wedging you take very small folds that are pushed back
into
the
body with the heal of the hand in such a way that it is layer pushed
onto
layer.

I know this does not really answer you question but if you can get
someone
to demonstrate wedging for you it will solve your problem.

DK

"Phil" wrote in message
...
I'm posting here in the hopes that someone will have experience
with
modelling clays. The only group that exists for this subject is
quite
unused, sadly. I just have a question about clay quality.

I bought some "plasticina" modelling clay from a company called
Studio
Basics. I paid $3.95 for a 1 pound block. It's non-drying for
claymation
type work.

My question is this: Is it normal for these kinds of clays to have
specks
of the colors that were used to make them? It seems like
poor-quality
clay
to me; I can't imagine that pros use something like this. I'm
finding
it
really difficult to work with as I'll be trying to get a shape
with
it
and
suddenly a speck of a different color will appear and ruin my
progress.
I'm
pretty sure it's not me being careless and contaminating the clay
myself.
I've torn through to the middle of a block and clearly it is the
clay
that
is not mixed well. I really hope that I'm not expected to
boil/melt
it
before I can use it - I simply and not prepared to go through that
at
this
point.

Any advice on better quality (but not expensive) clays of this
type
would
be greatly appreciated, also.

TIA

Diego, thanks. I've bookmarked the page and will look into it later.

Earlier today I bought some Van Aken brand Claytoon Clay because I'd
heard a lot of good things about it. So I get it home, tear off a piece
of beige skin color clay, and what do I see? The exact same problem -
red spots all throughout the clay. The white seems to be the same way,
except with blue instead of red.

If I just worked the clay a bit (that wedging stuff you guys are
debating) before trying to make something with it I could probably get
rid of most of the spots but it is still very annoying and I'm not quite
that patient, I'm afraid. I guess I'd better learn to be if I'm going to
be serious about this stuff, eh?

I'm really not impressed with the Van Aken brand. It doesn't smooth out
nearly as well as the Studio Basics I bought (it seems rather dry to me
and water doesn't seem to help) AND it has the same color problems.

Phil



"Diego" wrote in
:

Hi Phil:

http://www.kleanklay.com

This is my source for plasticine clay. They have all kinds of colors
and firmnesses. Many companies resell this clay. But, if what you
purchased wasn't from this company, then you might want to give them a
try. Their modeling clay seems to be the most consistent in quality.
Call them up. They will fax or email you a price list. Their prices
are half what everyone
else charges.

Diego

"Phil" wrote in message
...
I'm posting here in the hopes that someone will have experience with
modelling clays. The only group that exists for this subject is quite
unused, sadly. I just have a question about clay quality.

I bought some "plasticina" modelling clay from a company called
Studio Basics. I paid $3.95 for a 1 pound block. It's non-drying for
claymation type work.

My question is this: Is it normal for these kinds of clays to have
specks of the colors that were used to make them? It seems like
poor-quality clay to me; I can't imagine that pros use something like
this. I'm finding it really difficult to work with as I'll be trying
to get a shape with it and suddenly a speck of a different color will
appear and ruin my progress.

This might help:

I recycle my clay by wetting it down into a slurry, stirring it up with
a heavy duty paint mixer, and then running it off into a sort of trouser
leg tied at the bottom to hang up and dry to the point where I can wedge
it. My mate Paul makes his clay body up from scratch the same way (he
taught me this technique). If you made up your coloured clay the same
way and then ran it through a sieve and then into the bag, that would
eliminate the specks. It is because the clay you buy is made up in a
mixer rather than slopped and dried that you get the specks.

Steve
Bath
UK


In article , Phil
writes
Diego, thanks. I've bookmarked the page and will look into it later.

Earlier today I bought some Van Aken brand Claytoon Clay because I'd
heard a lot of good things about it. So I get it home, tear off a piece
of beige skin color clay, and what do I see? The exact same problem -
red spots all throughout the clay. The white seems to be the same way,
except with blue instead of red.

If I just worked the clay a bit (that wedging stuff you guys are
debating) before trying to make something with it I could probably get
rid of most of the spots but it is still very annoying and I'm not quite
that patient, I'm afraid. I guess I'd better learn to be if I'm going to
be serious about this stuff, eh?

I'm really not impressed with the Van Aken brand. It doesn't smooth out
nearly as well as the Studio Basics I bought (it seems rather dry to me
and water doesn't seem to help) AND it has the same color problems.

Phil



"Diego" wrote in
:

Hi Phil:

http://www.kleanklay.com

This is my source for plasticine clay. They have all kinds of colors
and firmnesses. Many companies resell this clay. But, if what you
purchased wasn't from this company, then you might want to give them a
try. Their modeling clay seems to be the most consistent in quality.
Call them up. They will fax or email you a price list. Their prices
are half what everyone
else charges.

Diego

"Phil" wrote in message
...
I'm posting here in the hopes that someone will have experience with
modelling clays. The only group that exists for this subject is quite
unused, sadly. I just have a question about clay quality.

I bought some "plasticina" modelling clay from a company called
Studio Basics. I paid $3.95 for a 1 pound block. It's non-drying for
claymation type work.

My question is this: Is it normal for these kinds of clays to have
specks of the colors that were used to make them? It seems like
poor-quality clay to me; I can't imagine that pros use something like
this. I'm finding it really difficult to work with as I'll be trying
to get a shape with it and suddenly a speck of a different color will
appear and ruin my progress.

--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK