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#11
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Alan Balmer wrote:
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 16:30:25 GMT, Ted Frater wrote: J. Dawson wrote: Hi, I've read in numerous places that it's possible to pickle copper and silver after soldering with a solution of salt and vinegar, but nowhere have I found information relating to proportions of the ingredients. As a beginner at soldering metal, I'm interested in trying this at least for my first few pickling attempts before moving on to "real" chemicals which, to be honest, scare me more than a little! Does anyone have any ideas about amounts and how effective this method is? TIA, Janie Janie, You have had encyclopedic replies to your pickling question. Its probably enough for you to work with for some time. However the question of acid hasnt been mentioned much so I might be able to help you here. dont be afraid of acids, IF you have the practical information on how to use them they will be a great help to you in your s/smithing. the 1st one to look at is Sulphuric. Sulphuric acid at the concentration used in batteries is safer than the concentrated stuff, but I would not say "don't be afraid of it." A healthy fear is good, because this acid can not only burn flesh, but eat many substances it comes in contact with. now you can go down the complicated route by going to a pharmachutical co and getting the concentrate etc. How ever theres a much easier way to get and use this acid (which I use) as its the simplest way. Most car batteries use this acid in a dilute form, you cna get these from your recycling center or from a friend who changes one from their car. this is what you do. Get a plastic wash up bowl and use outside on some hard surface near a drain , unscrew the filler plugs on the battery, and with a pair of wash up gloves on Perhaps you should elaborate on what you mean by "wash up gloves." I certainly don't know what you mean. What materials are suitable and safe? pick up the battery and turn upside down into the bowl. this will drain out the acid. when drained lift out the battery put back the plugs and pour over it some wash up water, its mildly alkaline to rinse off any acid drops. Again, what do you mean by "wash up water"? Common tap water is certainly not alkaline enough to neutralize much acid, and in fact may be mildly acidic itself. I would suggest using a baking soda solution and adding it until there is no reaction, plus a bit. Take you bowl and with a plastic funnel and a suitable plastic screw top container, pour your acid into this. Not a empty food /drinks container. Screw on the cap and rinse off as before inc your gloves. Take your battery to a proper place for disposal, and label and mark the plastic container properly. Store in a cool dry place on a floor. Now youve your acid heres how to use it. If you can use a reactive flux like commercial silver brazing operatives use and cover your work with it you wont get firestain, in fact there are fluxes that actually dissolve thes oxides out of the metal. thats another subject alltogether. do your soldering and with appropriate tweezers or tongs dependent on the size of your piece drop into clear cold water whilst its still hot. this will thermally crack off most of the flux residues. When cold remove and drop into a small glass jar say a 1lb jam jar half full with your acid. Dont use any metal tongs to remove as youll get contamination of your acid and get electrolytic plating. Cover your acid pot with onother glass cover not a metal one! and put somewhere where it wont get trodden on or kicked over. You can use this acid pot for copper after using it for silver. But you cant do it the other way round. Leave in the acid for 5 to 10 mins and take a look at it. It should be nicely white and slightly frosted. Rinse well and dry off. I do this with a slow soft torch as its so much faster. the I use a very fine steel or preferably stainless steel wire brush on my polishing spindle a slow one will do and lightly brush all over. To prepare this wheel run it against some fine emery paper. Always have lots of rinsing water about when handling acids. hope this helps. Ted Frater An old sweat of a silver smith. Hmmm, You ask a difficult question Mr. Balmer, Should I elaborate on the advanced technical details of "Wash up gloves" and "Wash up water"? Apart from me being a signatory of the Official secrets Acts here in the UK and the fact we have as moderator of this newsgroup a tough and unforgiving master who strikes fear into us lesser contributors who dare stray off topic, which this certainly is,, I guess you deserve some guidelines on this esoteric subject. Probably the simplest way I can outline these technical secrets is to run a simple scenario . So "her indoors" has been slaving over a hot stove on your behalf( assuming youve cut enough wood for her to use) preparing your favorite 3 course meal whilst youve been watching the Saturday football match on the telly. Youve done justice to your dinner with thec usual grunts of acknowledgement.(you had better eat it all up!) cos if youve left something youll be asked dont you like it? or whats wrong with it? Now after your second cuppa your presented with an apron , which is as you should know only too well ,its time to put it on( Whos the pretty boy then!!) and slowly drag yourself into the kitchen. your presented with what looks as tho a tornado has hit the place. Its going to be the usual daily "time to knock it into shape! scenario. you reach over to the hook on the wall where the 2 pairs of vinyl gloves are hung up. theres the pink pair( hardly used ) and the green pair a lot larger and well used!!. you put these on, trying to see which is the left and the right amidst the steam coming from the hot tap youve conveniently turned on. youve filled up the wash up bowl with tap water and added a good squirt of wash up liquid. This is usually abtained from your local supermarket and called dazzo or something similar. If your lucky it will smell a bit like a hospital and an air freshner combined, with lots of bubbles. If your still lucky you might have a wash up brush which isnt all worn out and a industrial pot scourer. You then spend the next hour or so working your way through this debacle till youve got it into the shape youd like to find it. From the other room where the sound of knitting comes youll get those dulcet tones saying "how are you getting on in there?" dear? you better have it right or else it will be "Ive a headache , or "stomach pains" and you eventually turn in with the thought of the same scene to look forward to next day. hope this helps. |
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#12
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On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 23:52:46 GMT, Ted Frater
wrote: Mr. Frater, it is often said that the British and the Americans are two peoples separated by a common language. You might think about that. Also, it appears that you and I are separated by vastly different attitudes on what I consider serious subjects. I will have no further comments on your writings. -- Al Balmer Balmer Consulting |
#13
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Your loss.
-- Don Thompson Remmy sez, Count de Monet. Unless, of course, you are Baroque. "Alan Balmer" wrote in message ... On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 23:52:46 GMT, Ted Frater wrote: Mr. Frater, it is often said that the British and the Americans are two peoples separated by a common language. You might think about that. Also, it appears that you and I are separated by vastly different attitudes on what I consider serious subjects. I will have no further comments on your writings. -- Al Balmer Balmer Consulting |
#14
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On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 02:24:15 GMT, "Don T"
wrote: top post corrected "Alan Balmer" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 23:52:46 GMT, Ted Frater wrote: Mr. Frater, it is often said that the British and the Americans are two peoples separated by a common language. You might think about that. Also, it appears that you and I are separated by vastly different attitudes on what I consider serious subjects. I will have no further comments on your writings. Your loss. -- I thank you for your interest in my comments, but fail to see how my lack of comment could be a loss to me. If Mr. Frater wants to make jokes about dangerous chemicals, that's his choice. Having raised the warning, there is no further need for me to comment. BTW, did you realize that your top-posting leaves your signature separator in the middle of the message, and causes standard news clients (including Agent, the one you use) to delete everything after it on a reply? I had to cut and paste the context. Don Thompson Remmy sez, Count de Monet. Unless, of course, you are Baroque. -- Al Balmer Balmer Consulting |
#15
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Alan Balmer wrote:
On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 02:24:15 GMT, "Don T" wrote: top post corrected "Alan Balmer" wrote in message . .. On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 23:52:46 GMT, Ted Frater wrote: Mr. Frater, it is often said that the British and the Americans are two peoples separated by a common language. You might think about that. Also, it appears that you and I are separated by vastly different attitudes on what I consider serious subjects. I will have no further comments on your writings. Your loss. -- I thank you for your interest in my comments, but fail to see how my lack of comment could be a loss to me. If Mr. Frater wants to make jokes about dangerous chemicals, that's his choice. Having raised the warning, there is no further need for me to comment. BTW, did you realize that your top-posting leaves your signature separator in the middle of the message, and causes standard news clients (including Agent, the one you use) to delete everything after it on a reply? I had to cut and paste the context. Don Thompson Remmy sez, Count de Monet. Unless, of course, you are Baroque. I do think that everyone has the right to reply if inaccuraces are quoted. I did not make jokes nor never would about dangerous chemicals. I someone lacks the ability to understand what wash up gloves and washup water is then its their problem. If one checks back and looks at the posts Ive made to this newsgroup over the years I have repeatedly advised beginners who want to learn this craft to take an apprenticeship as then the beginner will be exposed to all the tools, equiopment, materials and techniques including how to recover sulphuric acid from batteries , which was the subject of my reply. By being in a silversmithing enviroment you will see skilled people using all the tools, chemicals materials and larger equipment . There is no substitite for this and it highlights the serious limitations of the written word. Ido not joke about chemicals. If you consider wash up water dangerous then so be it. Its like anything else, even ordinary plain water can be dangerous and a killer. If for example you fall into it at 50mph. you most probably be killed., but on its own you drink it from a glass or whatever especially if its got some Scots Wisky in it. see what I mean? Silversmithing encompasses a very wide range of knowhow and skills that does take years to aquire and practice. assuming youe an aptitide for it. All the learning from books is a waste of time if you havnt got it in the hands so to speak. Some have it some havnt. |
#16
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Alan Balmer wrote:
On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 02:24:15 GMT, "Don T" wrote: top post corrected "Alan Balmer" wrote in message . .. On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 23:52:46 GMT, Ted Frater wrote: Mr. Frater, it is often said that the British and the Americans are two peoples separated by a common language. You might think about that. Also, it appears that you and I are separated by vastly different attitudes on what I consider serious subjects. I will have no further comments on your writings. Your loss. -- I thank you for your interest in my comments, but fail to see how my lack of comment could be a loss to me. If Mr. Frater wants to make jokes about dangerous chemicals, that's his choice. Having raised the warning, there is no further need for me to comment. BTW, did you realize that your top-posting leaves your signature separator in the middle of the message, and causes standard news clients (including Agent, the one you use) to delete everything after it on a reply? I had to cut and paste the context. Don Thompson Remmy sez, Count de Monet. Unless, of course, you are Baroque. I do think that everyone has the right to reply if inaccuraces are quoted. I did not make jokes nor never would about dangerous chemicals. I someone lacks the ability to understand what wash up gloves and washup water is then its their problem. If one checks back and looks at the posts Ive made to this newsgroup over the years I have repeatedly advised beginners who want to learn this craft to take an apprenticeship as then the beginner will be exposed to all the tools, equiopment, materials and techniques including how to recover sulphuric acid from batteries , which was the subject of my reply. By being in a silversmithing enviroment you will see skilled people using all the tools, chemicals materials and larger equipment . There is no substitite for this and it highlights the serious limitations of the written word. Ido not joke about chemicals. If you consider wash up water dangerous then so be it. Its like anything else, even ordinary plain water can be dangerous and a killer. If for example you fall into it at 50mph. you most probably be killed., but on its own you drink it from a glass or whatever especially if its got some Scots Wisky in it. see what I mean? Silversmithing encompasses a very wide range of knowhow and skills that does take years to aquire and practice. assuming youe an aptitide for it. All the learning from books is a waste of time if you havnt got it in the hands so to speak. Some have it some havnt. |
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