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#1
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A necklace I am proud of :)
I have taken up making jewellery recently and have done a couple of
pieces, but the one I created last night I am very proud of. It took about 5 hours, mainly because I was doing some joins I hadn't done before and it took me a while to get the hang of it. I would appreciate it if any body would give me an opinion on what they think! Please see it at: http://airraid.mancubus.net/flic/pic...y_necklace.jpg Thank you! Flic PS. I know I have to think of better names for the pieces! |
#2
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A necklace I am proud of :)
Flic wrote:
I have taken up making jewellery recently and have done a couple of pieces, but the one I created last night I am very proud of. It took about 5 hours, mainly because I was doing some joins I hadn't done before and it took me a while to get the hang of it. I would appreciate it if any body would give me an opinion on what they think! Please see it at: http://airraid.mancubus.net/flic/pic...y_necklace.jpg Thank you! Flic PS. I know I have to think of better names for the pieces! I think I'm going to hang myself now, or maybe I'll just quietly slit my wrists. Oh no, I can't do that today, I have to make 60 chocolate covered profiteroles for the school potluck tomorrow night. Oh well, I'll kill myself the day after tomorrow over this "pretty necklace" ****. -- Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com |
#3
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A necklace I am proud of :)
On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 22:02:59 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Abrasha
wrote: I think I'm going to hang myself now, or maybe I'll just quietly slit my wrists. Oh no, I can't do that today, I have to make 60 chocolate covered profiteroles for the school potluck tomorrow night. Oh well, I'll kill myself the day after tomorrow over this "pretty necklace" ****. Sheesh. Get off your high horse, will ya? It's better than that, not deserving of such scorn and derision and you should know it. 1. She's not representing herself as a trained fine artist, trained jeweler, or much of anything else like that. She's a hobbyist enjoying putting some things together for her own enjoyment. Starting just from scratch, without other training and no actual intention of doing this as some major career path,does this not count as an enjoyable and valid thing to do? I have a sister inlaw who sews. Pretty well. Her quilts are wonderful. But she's also made ordinary stuff, including for me one year, a bathrobe of micro fleece. ****ty as a bath robe, because the micro fleece won't absorb water to dry you off after the shower. But instead, it's a very warm house coat for those chilly evenings. Powder blue may not be my best color, but I like the thing, and it's maker did it with the best of intentions. So I don't kill myself over the lack of a major fashion label in this bathrobe of mine. And you shouldn't kill yourself because some eager beginner produces a reasonably basic but decently enough made wire wrap and bead necklace. yeah, it's not great art. But I'm sure she likes the look when she wears it, and I'm sure her friends agree. I've seen stuffI'd consider a whole heck of a lot worse get actually sold commercially. 2. it's a darn sight better than "paint by numbers" level stuff or a kitbuilt from instructions. It may not be earth shaking, art world turning, revolutionary design, but at least she's not just following some printed instructions found somewhere. or at least I don't think she is, or at least, not totally... or I dunno... Still it's a lot better than some I've seen. 3. it's usable, and though not fine art, as decorative as any of the commercially made similar costume pieces with which many ordinary people are quite happy to decorate themselves. it's a lot more decorative and useful than the kitschy beaded teddy bears someone else posted. Those, arguably, arenot even jewelry. This most certainly is. 4. The posting links to a plain jpeg image on an otherwise plain page, just as I've repeatedly asked posters to do. it does not link to some commercialor semi commercial page on a yahoo group or something. Surely this following of the group rules should be worth at least *Some* brownie points... And remember, nothing in the group's charter or history suggests it's only for seasonedpros. Beginners at any level have always been welcome along with the professionals and anyone in between. And to Flic: Don't pay attention to Abrasha. he often seems to criticize beginners who come along hoping for approval or help but who's skills and training, both technically and aesthetically, don't seem to meet the high standards he sets for himself. Especially when that beginner is working with really basic methods like beads on wire, etc. He's well known on usenet for this attitude, which can be difficult to comprehend for those who actually know him, since in person, he's actually a really nice and generally polite fellow, not to mention atop notch jewelry artist, and one of the finer craftsmen I've ever met. It's kind of a keyboard version of road rage, I think. He'll disagree perhaps, butmy point is, don't let him scare you away or discourage you. Yeah, your necklace won't win great awards as highly original art, but that should surprise nobody, least of all you, given that you're new at this. The bit with double strands or more, or tassels in the middle, etc etc, have all been done by other artists many times, for millennia. But that doesn't mean it doesn't still look nice, because it did millennia ago, and still does now. The color appears good on you, and you've not chosen a combination of colors that clash or something. So I'd overall agree with you that you did a nice job. Now, if I were doing it, I'd probably use actual gemstones, not glass beads. And my loops would be smaller and neater, and soldered shut or something, or I'dcome up with some sort of much less visible joint or unusual mechanism design for the linkages. And of course, when done, there would be a few more zeros in the price. So it goes. There are many such technical and design possibilities, many of which are within your capabilities even with limited tools and equipment. But no matter. You've got time. Keep experimenting, one step at a time. And don't let the bad mouthed folks get you down. Get some good books on jewelry making and metal work. You can get some good ideas for some more complex constructions that won't be so similar to everything other peoplehave done. At the beginning, it's OK to mostly learn how to make your own versions of things others have done. But as quickly as you can, try to work out your own methods, so you're not just copying other peoples ideas you've seen. (I'm not saying you did this here, at least not intentionally. Just saying you should make an effort NOT to just do one yourself when you see something you like from someone else.) Peter Rowe who's indubitably stepping in something squishy with this post. No matter. With the rain we've had here in Seattle since Christmas, soft squishy ground seems the norm. And this time of year is slow enough I'vegot the time for some good entertaining yet silly discussions. And to all. remember, personal attacks and flame wars are not allowed. attacking ideas, or jewelry, is fine. |
#4
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A necklace I am proud of :)
Peter W.. Rowe, wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 22:02:59 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Abrasha wrote: [[long quote of mostly my post, trimmed for clarity... PWR]] And to all. remember, personal attacks and flame wars are not allowed. attacking ideas, or jewelry, is fine. I give him credit for not pimping his website that time. Carl -- to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net) |
#5
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A necklace I am proud of :)
On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 08:33:44 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Carl 1 Lucky Texan
wrote: Peter W.. Rowe, wrote: On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 22:02:59 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Abrasha wrote: [[long quote of mostly my post, trimmed for clarity... PWR]] And to all. remember, personal attacks and flame wars are not allowed. attacking ideas, or jewelry, is fine. I give him credit for not pimping his website that time. Carl OK, but do remember that what Abrasha does, including his site's URL in avery short sig file at the end of on topic postings, or using his site to hosta picture of something illustrative of a point being made in his posting, has always been totally acceptable in any case. Peter |
#6
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A necklace I am proud of :)
Peter W.. Rowe, wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 22:02:59 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Abrasha wrote: I think I'm going to hang myself now, or maybe I'll just quietly slit my wrists. Oh no, I can't do that today, I have to make 60 chocolate covered profiteroles for the school potluck tomorrow night. Oh well, I'll kill myself the day after tomorrow over this "pretty necklace" ****. Sheesh. Get off your high horse, will ya? You right, my bad! Will just make small incision in earlobe for a little bloodletting. Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com |
#7
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A necklace I am proud of :)
On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 08:33:52 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Abrasha
wrote: Peter W.. Rowe, wrote: On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 22:02:59 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Abrasha wrote: I think I'm going to hang myself now, or maybe I'll just quietly slit my wrists. Oh no, I can't do that today, I have to make 60 chocolate covered profiteroles for the school potluck tomorrow night. Oh well, I'll kill myself the day after tomorrow over this "pretty necklace" ****. Sheesh. Get off your high horse, will ya? You right, my bad! Will just make small incision in earlobe for a little bloodletting. Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com No doubt this will inspire a new earring design... :-) Peter |
#8
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A necklace I am proud of :)
Hey, I'm inspired already! Have actually just had a really good idea!
(Well, not Abrasha-good, but good for me!) Just remember Abrasha, some of us actually enjoy working with lampworked beads, sterling silver, swarovski crystal etc. The enjoyment for me is being able to make AFFORDABLE pieces that other people my age (and older) can afford and wear and enjoy! As much as I enjoy your necklaces and rings, I could never in a million years afford one. Some of us also don't have access to the type of education that you've obviously had either. Charlie. (I'm in three galleries and counting... does that make me a professional?) "Peter W.. Rowe," wrote in message ... On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 08:33:52 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Abrasha wrote: Peter W.. Rowe, wrote: On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 22:02:59 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Abrasha wrote: I think I'm going to hang myself now, or maybe I'll just quietly slit my wrists. Oh no, I can't do that today, I have to make 60 chocolate covered profiteroles for the school potluck tomorrow night. Oh well, I'll kill myself the day after tomorrow over this "pretty necklace" ****. Sheesh. Get off your high horse, will ya? You right, my bad! Will just make small incision in earlobe for a little bloodletting. Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com No doubt this will inspire a new earring design... :-) Peter |
#9
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A necklace I am proud of :)
Mr. Rowe,
I have been interested in the lapidary arts for some time now and have been privilaged to meet and learn from some fine people. I found your newsgroup, read it with some regularity, and have learned more. Some of the things I learned I really didn't want to know. [the thread A necklace I am proud of] Mr. Abrasha is a talented man from what I see on his web site, but unfortunately we can't all go to school in Germany for two years and be coddled by a master jeweler. Some of us have had to use other means to earn a living and shiney things just keep calling us to try. It seems strange for him to feel threatened by competition from such a low level after reading his episile on his website, even if he does use discarded CO2 cartriges. The inclusion of "A Confession" really put the lid on my pot. I get the feeling he should have signed it since it seems to express his ego so well. Your how to comments to others have helped me and I will keep reading the news. Venting session is closed Charlie "Peter W.. Rowe," wrote in message news On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 22:02:59 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Abrasha wrote: I think I'm going to hang myself now, or maybe I'll just quietly slit my wrists. Oh no, I can't do that today, I have to make 60 chocolate covered profiteroles for the school potluck tomorrow night. Oh well, I'll kill myself the day after tomorrow over this "pretty necklace" ****. Sheesh. Get off your high horse, will ya? It's better than that, not deserving of such scorn and derision and you should know it. 1. She's not representing herself as a trained fine artist, trained jeweler, or much of anything else like that. She's a hobbyist enjoying putting some things together for her own enjoyment. Starting just from scratch, without other training and no actual intention of doing this as some major career path, does this not count as an enjoyable and valid thing to do? I have a sister in law who sews. Pretty well. Her quilts are wonderful. But she's also made ordinary stuff, including for me one year, a bathrobe of micro fleece. ****ty as a bath robe, because the micro fleece won't absorb water to dry you off after the shower. But instead, it's a very warm house coat for those chilly evenings. Powder blue may not be my best color, but I like the thing, and it's maker did it with the best of intentions. So I don't kill myself over the lack of a major fashion label in this bathrobe of mine. And you shouldn't kill yourself because some eager beginner produces a reasonably basic but decently enough made wire wrap and bead necklace. yeah, it's not great art. But I'm sure she likes the look when she wears it, and I'm sure her friends agree. I've seen stuff I'd consider a whole heck of a lot worse get actually sold commercially. 2. it's a darn sight better than "paint by numbers" level stuff or a kit built from instructions. It may not be earth shaking, art world turning, revolutionary design, but at least she's not just following some printed instructions found somewhere. or at least I don't think she is, or at least, not totally... or I dunno... Still it's a lot better than some I've seen. 3. it's usable, and though not fine art, as decorative as any of the commercially made similar costume pieces with which many ordinary people are quite happy to decorate themselves. it's a lot more decorative and useful than the kitschy beaded teddy bears someone else posted. Those, arguably, are not even jewelry. This most certainly is. 4. The posting links to a plain jpeg image on an otherwise plain page, just as I've repeatedly asked posters to do. it does not link to some commercialor semi commercial page on a yahoo group or something. Surely this following of the group rules should be worth at least *Some* brownie points... And remember, nothing in the group's charter or history suggests it's only for seasoned pros. Beginners at any level have always been welcome along with the professionals and anyone in between. And to Flic: Don't pay attention to Abrasha. he often seems to criticize beginners who come along hoping for approval or help but who's skills and training, both technically and aesthetically, don't seem to meet the high standards he sets for himself. Especially when that beginner is working with really basic methods like beads on wire, etc. He's well known on usenet for this attitude, which can be difficult to comprehend for those who actually know him, since in person, he's actually a really nice and generally polite fellow, not to mention a top notch jewelry artist, and one of the finer craftsmen I've ever met. It's kind of a keyboard version of road rage, I think. He'll disagree perhaps, butmy point is, don't let him scare you away or discourage you. Yeah, your necklace won't win great awards as highly original art, but that should surprise nobody, least of all you, given that you're new at this. The bit with double strands or more, or tassels in the middle, etc etc, have all been done by other artists many times, for millennia. But that doesn't mean it doesn't still look nice, because it did millennia ago, and still does now. The color appears good on you, and you've not chosen a combination of colors that clash or something. So I'd overall agree with you that you did a nice job. Now, if I were doing it, I'd probably use actual gemstones, not glass beads. And my loops would be smaller and neater, and soldered shut or something, or I'd come up with some sort of much less visible joint or unusual mechanism design for the linkages. And of course, when done, there would be a few more zeros in the price. So it goes. There are many such technical and design possibilities, many of which are within your capabilities even with limited tools and equipment. But no matter. You've got time. Keep experimenting, one step at a time. And don't let the bad mouthed folks get you down. Get some good books on jewelry making and metal work. You can get some good ideas for some more complex constructions that won't be so similar to everything other people have done. At the beginning, it's OK to mostly learn how to make your own versions of things others have done. But as quickly as you can, try to work out your own methods, so you're not just copying other peoples ideas you've seen. (I'm not saying you did this here, at least not intentionally. Just saying you should make an effort NOT to just do one yourself when you see something you like from someone else.) Peter Rowe who's indubitably stepping in something squishy with this post. No matter. With the rain we've had here in Seattle since Christmas, soft squishy ground seems the norm. And this time of year is slow enough I've got the time for some good entertaining yet silly discussions. And to all. remember, personal attacks and flame wars are not allowed. attacking ideas, or jewelry, is fine. |
#10
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A necklace I am proud of :)
On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 20:40:48 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry "Charlie Johns"
wrote: Mr. Rowe, I have been interested in the lapidary arts for some time now and have been privilaged to meet and learn from some fine people. I found your newsgroup, read it with some regularity, and have learned more. I'm glad to hear that. But one short bit of clarification. It's not MY newsgroup. I'm only the moderator. UJsenet newsgroups are, by definition, public domain and public property. I do not own it. I just run it, and do so at the pleasure and request of the readers, as a volunteer, not an owner.it may seem like it's mine, since all posts have to come through me. But inthe end, it's YOUR newsgroup. Some of the things I learned I really didn't want to know. [the thread A necklace I am proud of] Perhaps. But it's also the liveliest and bisiest conversation the group has had in a good long while. nerves getting touched means issues are real. Andthat often means not everyone is pleased. Sometimes, nobody is pleased. But even so, sometimes ideas worth expressing get floated around, and even angry people can sometimes learn something of use, if they calm down enough to try andbe objective about the issues. Mr. Abrasha is a talented man from what I see on his web site, but unfortunately we can't all go to school in Germany for two years and be coddled by a master jeweler. Some of us have had to use other means to earn a living and shiney things just keep calling us to try. I should let him answer that, but I can assure you that coddling is the very last word any of those masters or their students, would use to describe that education. It's rigorous, highly competative, and a whole LOT of work to complete. By the way, unlike here in the States, if you can get over tothe jewelry school in Pfortzheim, tuition is free (at least I think it still is.). You'd need living expenses, but unlike schools here with high tuitions, difficult to get into, there the state pays for the school. Easy to get in, not so easy to stay in. Don't know if this is fully still the case, or whether there are residency requirements now, but this is how it used to be. It ends up being somewhat easier to go get that education than some people think. Iknow folks who've gone over there on a shoestring budget, barely speaking any German, who've found ways to make it work. All depends on how high you set your sights, and how much you want it. It seems strange for him to feel threatened by competition from such a low level after reading his episile on his website, even if he does use discarded CO2 cartriges. You know, this illustrates an interesting difference between art, and the mundane. You're referring to the CO2 cartridges as though this was some demeaning material. The thing is, it doesn't matter much what material we use to create art (or jewelery, whether art or not), what matters is the thought and creativity behind it. It's the ideas, not the material, that can really make a work unique and stand apart from the pack. Those of us who've gone to art school, here in the States or in Germany or elsewhere, spent a lot of time learning the history of art, and the history of our craft, as well as the technique, in order that we'd not then go spending time reinventing the wheel and calling it ours It was drummed into us that originality of thought is important, and that without that originality, the work is either worth less, maybe far less, or even worthy only of the dirision leveled at plagiaristic works when in written form. The public readily accepts that this is badwhen an author copies the work of another, or a muscian copies the music of another and tries to call it his (rather than an arrangement or something). Yet in jewelry, many of these same people sometimes seem to even prefer works that are staid and familar copies or reiterations of what's already been done, sometimes countless times before. Some, even jewelers, including a few who've chimed in on this thread, seem to think there's nothing new left to do, so that makes it all OK. Those who've been trained in the arts, though, understand the difference, and hold not just their own work, but that of others, to those standards they've been taught. And this creates problems. Since that means they're holding higher standards than either the public, or many of their competitors. In the end, it canmean that for all the high cost or hard work of a fine arts education, it can end up almost being a commercial handicap, since if one is now bound to be original, and works hard to avoid anything else, then one is playing within a smaller field than the overall bunch of folks making things, and doing it with a bunch of ethical inhibitions that their competition, and maybe even the public, doesn't recognize. it's a quandry in the art schools, who have trouble justifying the cost and time of that education when the graduates thereof then seem to have a harder time competing in the marketplace than those self taught folks who're really happy to have learned the familiar stuff, and how to do this and that, and happilyset about mass producing the workt that the public already knows, and is happy to buy, while the artist sits by with his body of work that he's agonized for years to develope, selling less because the public isn't quite ready to be that advanced in it's thinking. it's an oddity to the jewelry field, since in fashion or music, new is gobbled up as quickly as creative minds can dream it up. Please note, and this is IMPORTANT. I'm not trying at all to imply that those people with less formal educational backgrounds are any less entitled tomake whatever they wish, or have their work recognized. Most such people are working as hard as anyone, and care about what they're doing. But it should be recognized by all, that both parties are looking at this issue from theirown perspectives, and they're complex ones. The beginners get defensive overtheir percieved lack of more formal skills, while the more highly trained folksget defensive over their apparent lack of commensurate sucess in relation to how hard they've worked to get where they are. Both bodies of work, and their makers, are justified in their views, but both may be antagonistic towards the others views, as we've seen here in this thread. The inclusion of "A Confession" really put the lid on my pot. I get the feeling he should have signed it since it seems to express his ego so well. Nah. It's an interesting commentary by Picasso. We can learn insights into his thought process from it. What Abrasha learned, he'll have to tell us himself. Makes interesting reading. So does, by the way, if you can find it somewhere, Salvadore Dali's discussion on what it takes to be a great artist. (by the time he's done with his list of requirements, only one man in the universe, himself, qualifies...) There are many interesting viewpoints on the nature of art. Abrasha or others on this list can no doubt recommend many varied ones. All are valid within the context of who wrote them. Few should ever be taken outof that context, except for very carefully. This is such a case. Your how to comments to others have helped me and I will keep reading the news. I'm glad to have helped, as, I'm sure, are those many other users of thisgroup who also give freely. Including, often enough, Abrasha. But it ocurs to me that perhaps, in addition to all the "How To" tips, perhaps we should also now and then get into the "WHY DO" tips. Not just how to make this stuff, buy why do whe do it. We talk a lot of techniques, and virtually nothing about aesthetics. One thing this thread has made obvious is thatthere is a broad range of opinions and levels of training regarding the aesthetics of jewelry and jewelry design. This is not trivial stuff, by the way. I recall in graduate school, perhaps the most intense classes were the seminar classes where most of what we talked about were issues like this. Not how to make a thing. But why make a given thing. WHAT was worth making, and what not.Why? etc. like I said, gets intense. Very invigorating stuff too. cheers Peter |
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