reply to Mirjam

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jan Lennie"
To: "Mirjam Bruck-Cohen"
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 7:16 PM
Subject: Ot Synagogue in Turkey blown up


Mirjam ,
I really don't see any point in carrying on this discussion with you - you
have your views and I have mine and it would seem 'never the twain would
meet' You are obviously a very knowledgable lady and I bow to your
knowledge
however , attacking my views will not change them. I've never asked you to
give up your point of view so please do me the honour of extending the
same
courtesy.
Jan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mirjam Bruck-Cohen"
To: "Jan Lennie"
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 5:32 PM
Subject: Ot Synagogue in Turkey blown up


Good evening Jan , i have not misread you , i just don`t agree with
your , wonderful naive asumption that Al -Kaida would not have
excalated their attack on UK , if you had not joined Usa in the last
war ....please read again ,,,,, i am listening to Arabic stations , I
listened to the tapes of the Al Kaida After 9/11 ,,, where they laid
out their plan,,,,, Your acyions might have moved their timiming
several months earlier [ or later ] eventaully they do what they
declaired they will do ,,,,, they will not stop 'Until All the planes
will stop flying, and all High rise buildings will crush """ They use
a lot of Propaganda to tell you and others that this Alliance with Usa
is the reason ,, knowing very well that many people will Walk the
streetrs and demand that you stop helping USA ,,, You are not helping
Usa , you are fighting for your democracy as well, They spread rummors
like this to break up the relations between the allies.
If your assumtion about the Al kaida not having a reason to attack Uk
, if you hadn`t joined the usa was Valid ???how do you explain the
attack on the twin towers ???
Mirjam , you mis -read my meaning , I didn't say that they attacked the
British because of our PM's alliance per-se I said they'd stepped up
their
action against UK the main reason being that they'd allied with the USA
on
the war front - If we hadn't joined in the military action ( which is
what
the majority of British citizen's wanted ) then the Al Kaida would have
had
no reason to attack .
I am very sorry that you see my realistic points of view as
interpreting things in my own way ???? How should i interpret them ?
with your point of view????
feel sometimes that you pick and choose parts of
peoples posts and choose to interpret them in your own way
I must say , i have never seen a more mystifying sentence ,,, It used
to be that people who had experience of a sort and talked about
happeninings in life , using their wide experience and telling others
, how it looks through these experiences , it would add to the
discussion ,,, i think that you just oppose me speaking here ,Just in
this very discussion , somebody commented that Sheena having lived in
London during the WW2 bombing could tell the Americans how people can
go on living without fear , in a hard time... But it is not Ok for me
to use my relevant experience as tool to check and compare and speak
about this subject. ???
this is okay if
your interpretation was not strongly coloured by your experience of
living
in a war zone but please try not to put words into peoples mouths.
After the attack on the twin towers many people were very happy to
recieve some advice about how to explain it to children etc...
So according to you those without any experience can Say any thing !!
and those with experience should hold their words ????
Jan
"Mirjam Bruck-Cohen" wrote in message
...
Ach Jan I would have loved to believe that !!!
But Al Kaida , and it`s trailing or associated groups , Declared war
on the Western Culture Even before the invasion to Iraq, And it
doesn`t care if your PM will alliance with X or Y , this are only
Excuses , to go on with it`s agenda , if it wasn`t this they would
have found another `reason` , to do it.
It reminds me of the `historical reason` for ww1 , which was given ,,
the murder of the Austrian Prince consort ,, but all Europe was armed
and ready to go to war.... same here ,, this Movement is ready and
willing ,, try to remember the tapes they radioed after 9/11. i
listened several times ,,,, they will not stop they said "Until all
your planes will be grounded , and all your High rising buildings
will
be flattened ..." seems they keep up to their plans , They hit
Tourist
resorts = by this breaking down the tourist industry , and reducing
air flights ...
mirjam

The war on UK has never ended Mirjam - it's been stepped up (IMO)
because
of
our Prime Ministers alliance with the American President and in
response
to
the Bush visit to the UK.
Jan
"Mirjam Bruck-Cohen" wrote in message
...
Thank you Jan , and it is a pity we have to
know such facts ,,,, But your letter seemed as if you wern`t aware
of
it , thus i thought it was important to write about this ... have
you
seen this morning`s news ,,, the war on UK has started . mirjam

As ever Mirjam 'claims' that because a persons views differ , her views are
being attacked - this is a copy of the last letter she sent to my personal
mail
' think that the fact i wrote to you in private and not in public
should have indicated i had no meaning to attack or insult you while ,
you were , taking the insultive langauge towards me
So now i think maybe this should go to public post ,,, where it should
have been writen in the first place . mirjam '
Please don't bother to send any more post to my personal mail Mirjam as I've
blocked you and will not receive it . You tire me .
Jan

Been there, Jan. Almost word for word. Understand completely.
Dianne

Jan Lennie wrote:
As ever Mirjam 'claims' that because a persons views differ , her views are
being attacked - this is a copy of the last letter she sent to my personal
mail
' think that the fact i wrote to you in private and not in public
should have indicated i had no meaning to attack or insult you while ,
you were , taking the insultive langauge towards me
So now i think maybe this should go to public post ,,, where it should
have been writen in the first place . mirjam '
Please don't bother to send any more post to my personal mail Mirjam as I've
blocked you and will not receive it . You tire me .
Jan

As ever Mirjam 'claims' that because a persons views differ , her views are
being attacked - this is a copy of the last letter she sent to my personal
mail

I once exchanged a series of personal emails with Mirjam, which I thought we
both benefitted from.

Only to have her accuse me of something nasty later.

I've come to understand that her personal view of the world allows no one else
to be right about anything. According to her: we are all anti-semites, even
those of us with Jewish blood: everything in the world is directly tied to the
Nazis, the holocaust, and Hitler; and the world is out to destroy the Jews, we
are all part of that conspiracy.

It's really sad that she can't see that there is more in the world than that.

I have killfiled her, I suggest others do the same. My enjoyment of rctn has
greatly improved since I no longer have to read her paranoid delusions and
accusations.

Caryn
Blue Wizard Designs
http://hometown.aol.com/crzy4xst/index.html
Updated: 7/7/03 -- now available Dragon of the Stars
View WIPs at: http://community.webshots.com/user/carynlws (Caryn's UFO's)

Telling somebody that her views are coloured is an accusation or an
attack and not a recognition of the Difference of opinion, as a mtter
of fact your view is just as much rooted in your life exoerience ,
Telling somebody that my life experience is different doesn`t imply i
think mine is the only right one , i only hold on to my right to have
different points of view which you deny me by telling me mine is
coloured , thus in other way you are the one insiting that YOUR point
of view is the right and true one since your point of view isn`t
colored [ according to you] by the living in the war zone , thus you
deny me to have mine ... and ps it is you who claimed that i attacked
your views , before i thought about this term ....
mirjam

As ever Mirjam 'claims' that because a persons views differ , her views are
being attacked - this is a copy of the last letter she sent to my personal
mail
' think that the fact i wrote to you in private and not in public
should have indicated i had no meaning to attack or insult you while ,
you were , taking the insultive langauge towards me
So now i think maybe this should go to public post ,,, where it should
have been writen in the first place . mirjam '
Please don't bother to send any more post to my personal mail Mirjam as I've
blocked you and will not receive it . You tire me .
Jan

Yeah, Jan, you know Wilt-The-Stilt Chamberlain. IIRC, he scored a
lot... {DUCKING & RUNNING TO A GALAXY FAR, FAR AWAY}

Mirjam Bruck-Cohen wrote:
Hee Jan , i suggest you read up on your history , does Chamberlain
ring a bell ?????

--
Brenda Lewis
WIP: "Pink Baby" photo frame, Candamar

Hee Jan , i suggest you read up on your history , does Chamberlain
ring a bell ?????
mirjam

I think I've well and truly learnt my lesson about attempting to have a sane
conversation with M B-C about something not to do with needlework . I should
have listened to the warning bells sent up by the rest of you !
Oh well c'est la vie .
Even though she irritates me no end and her rants have a tendency towards
fanaticism I have decided to ignore her postings on anything but needlework
from now on , maybe as we all go on to do that she'll get the hint (or maybe
not !!!! - What is the quote ? 'There's none so blind as he who will not
see'!)
Whatever , bye bye M B-C .
Jan
Brenda Lewis" wrote in message
...
Yeah, Jan, you know Wilt-The-Stilt Chamberlain. IIRC, he scored a
lot... {DUCKING & RUNNING TO A GALAXY FAR, FAR AWAY}

Mirjam Bruck-Cohen wrote:
Hee Jan , i suggest you read up on your history , does Chamberlain
ring a bell ?????

--
Brenda Lewis
WIP: "Pink Baby" photo frame, Candamar

I really have no idea what you are talking about , i am not into
accusing people of something unless they do it ,,,,
As to my ideas about Anti-semitism , who is, and who isn`t i am
entitled to have them , just as you have your right to have yours.
You would be surprised to note that i have lessend it`s seriousness ,
than many Important world leaders now look upon it , and understand
what it signals.

As ever Mirjam 'claims' that because a persons views differ , her views are
being attacked - this is a copy of the last letter she sent to my personal
mail

I once exchanged a series of personal emails with Mirjam, which I thought we
both benefitted from.

Only to have her accuse me of something nasty later.

I've come to understand that her personal view of the world allows no one else
to be right about anything. According to her: we are all anti-semites, even
those of us with Jewish blood:
Unlike me who appear here with my full names and country which, signal
me as being Jewish , i have never asked anybody here about their
background , nore family roots , i accept everyone as they are , i
deal with opinions not with race , religion or roots, i oppose ideas
that are based on this sources ,,, Thus if you have an Anti semitic
idea , i will oppose it whomever says it.
verything in the world is directly tied to the
Nazis, the holocaust, and Hitler; and the world is out to destroy the Jews, we
are all part of that conspiracy.
If you claim that you exchanged private emails with me ,,, etc,, and
you haven`t seen me beyond the above statement , you have a serious
reading problem , either you can`t or won`t read any facts that will
clash with your prejudge..... Conspiracy is an American idea. I don`t
know what you mean by that ,
Reading/studing Sociological currents and see where they lead too are
not connected to Conspiracy ideas ,,,, they rae just an interesting by
product of living in the middle of this times , and being exposed to
so many Cultural Streams.
It's really sad that she can't see that there is more in the world than that.
And what do you see in the world ....just half an hour ago , the
Hizbulla radio station ,,,,, [ in Arabic ,, which you of course
understand but disregard ?????] declared that last weeks attacks are
only the Strat of the war on UK .... But as you wrote ,, i can`t see
that the world has more than that ????
I make my art and you might be surprised to read the following quote
from the South Bend Tribune ,,,,, My friends and my art works
....." One hour here is worth more than a month`s coverage in the New
York Times or the National Public Radio .....

I have killfiled her, I suggest others do the same. My enjoyment of rctn has
greatly improved since I no longer have to read her paranoid delusions and
accusations.
Hiding from facts that you don`t like , never ,makes life easier ,
mirjam
Caryn
Blue Wizard Designs
http://hometown.aol.com/crzy4xst/index.html
Updated: 7/7/03 -- now available Dragon of the Stars
View WIPs at: http://community.webshots.com/user/carynlws (Caryn's UFO's)

On 11/22/03 5:09 AM,"Brenda Lewis" posted:

Yeah, Jan, you know Wilt-The-Stilt Chamberlain. IIRC, he scored a
lot... {DUCKING & RUNNING TO A GALAXY FAR, FAR AWAY}

Ah, Brenda - 5 in the morning???? You really were thinking about Wilt ;^p
Seriously, you know this could now start a complete thread about athletes,
sexual irresponsibility, the media, overpaid athletes, sexual allegations
for money, and could Wilt's claims possibly be true?

FWIW, some professional sports teams (members of which we've been friendly
with) had what was known as "The Contest" . Yup, who "scored" the most over
the season. The winner a few years in a row, IMO, by all other counts a
great guy, not gorgeous, but I could see his charm - the out of play person
is very bright, soft-spoken, nice eyes - counter to the feisty player. I was
always perplexed by this, as we also know the wife and kids. Said 3 time
winner retired from playing a few years back, and I'm happy to say that I
believe the "Contest" stopped at least last season.

OTOH, another guy, with whom we're friendly - but who is kind of the class
clown guy. Former contest runner-up. Very, very nice-looking. Journeyman
kind of player. Gorgeous wife. 3 kids. We know the whole family - including
his parents - dad an ex-Navy chief type (Canadian). His mom told me "the
reason our grandkids are so good is all because of our daughter-in-law" .
Dad totally cracks on pro-athlete son - either about his being slow since he
was a kid, or general teasing. Said athlete gets traded to another city -
far away. We don't see him for several months,. Next season, he's retired
now - wham - we're out at a hang-out, and he's bouncing some 35-45 yr old
dressing like she's Britney Spears with implants on his lap. Huh? We have
some greetings with the guy - the 'babe' is a little too spacey to converse
with. One of our other guys in the business says "Oh, yeah - he f-ed that up
good - and I do mean f-ed it up. Forgot he was married when he got traded -
XXX has filed the papers." "Oh, I'm not surprised - but she's so nice, and
gorgeous." "yup - he totally screwed that pooch" . Fast forward some time,
and we're walking thru the arena underground (event behind the scenes level)
and pass by the bus which is there to transport visiting teams. In the front
window is a huge can - like the 3# coffee size. It has a paper wrapper,
written in marker "THE JXXXX YYYYYY pay ZZZZZZZ Divorce Fund" We could
only see the JXXXXX YYY FUND part - so as we passed the next time, DH asked
the driver who was hanging about "What the heck is that can with the JXXXX
Fund?" Driver takes it out and shows us "Yup - we're collecting for JXXXX.
What a dope. And y'know, ZZZZZZZ took him to the cleaners" We stuck up for
ZZZZZ, of course. But, can you imagine how embarassing to be only retired
not even a full season, and have your peers seeing this, let alone
contributing? As a footnote - said guy does seem to have settled down to be
acting more responsibly, and adult. I never used to really get much out of
time spent talking with him, and recently have seen him getting the ego in
check, and had some truly worthwhile conversations.

So, I think the times have changed a bit. The totally wild level of the Wilt
days seems to be passe'. But, still, you never know.

Ellice

Mirjam Bruck-Cohen wrote:
Hee Jan , i suggest you read up on your history , does Chamberlain
ring a bell ?????