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The Beadmakers Liberation Front



 
 
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  #51  
Old February 11th 04, 08:07 PM
Dr. Sooz
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I have mixed feelings about that whole thread. On the one hand, the
intentions are good, I am sure. The people are mostly nice, hardworking and
well-intentioned. On the other hand, price fixing is illegal and annoying.
I agree about pricing your things in such a way that it mirrors value and
hard work. However, I don't agree with a huge group governing that, or
trying to control things.


I don't agree with the organization, the "rules", etc. But I wholeheartedly
support the feeling that undercutting is noxious and harmful to beaders and
beadmakers everywhere.
~~
Sooz
-------
"Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John
Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance
~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html
Ads
  #52  
Old February 11th 04, 08:09 PM
Dr. Sooz
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Time to stop now before someone whacks
me with a tomato!!


Mmmmmmmmmm....tomatoes....
~~
Sooz
-------
"Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John
Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance
~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html
  #53  
Old February 11th 04, 10:02 PM
KDK
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I think you are dead on. I have some of your beads -several in fact. And I
think you are right that for some people it's just easier to complain than
to actually DO anything.

Kthy K
"Kandice Seeber" wrote in message
...
I totally agree. For me, ebay is still the second best venue with my
website being the best. Except maybe for a local show. Other shows - I

have
to factor in travel costs and such, which can be substantial, depending on
location. Galleries/bead stores want wholesale or consignment.
Ebay/PayPal/Credit Card fees come up to about 20% of my prices, generally
speaking, and shipping is really inexpensive. So far, I have gotten

really
decent prices on ebay.
My website is by far the best venue, though, but takes a lot more time and
energy to run than my ebay presence. So I do both, and they average out

to
be very good. Why? When others say the market sucks and sales are down?
Because I work really freaking hard, and I do my homework. I don't
undervalue my work. I work with the market to get the best prices I can
while giving buyers the highest quality, most pleasing beads I possibly

can.
Anyone with a little talent can do this if they work hard at it, and

listen
to their customers. People complain way too much and tend to think this

is
an easy way to earn lots of money, and think they can do so without much
effort. Anyway. Ranting again. Time to stop now before someone

whacks
me with a tomato!!

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net

I just read your reply on WC. I thought you did it very well. And you

do
make some really good points. I too have mixed feelings about this

whole
thing.

I don't yet sell beads, hope to one day. I do make pieces with lampwork
beads. I understand wanting to get full value for your work, but I feel
uneasy with the idea that "everyone" should do XXXXX. I know a

beadmaker
that won't sell on ebay at all - to her that is undervaluing her work,

so
she only sells at shows and galleries. If that works for her great, but

for
some people ebay is what works.

One of the problems with selling art is that it is sooooo subjective.

I've
gotten beads at what I thought was a steal, I've paid full value for

some
beads, and I've probably over paid for others. To someone else what I
thought was a steal they may think is a fair price, etc.

I also understand that it's easy to undervalue your own work (still

working
on that with my jewelry), and some may not even realize that they are

doing
it.

Lots of shades of gray in this - it's surely not just black and white -
raise our prices and all will be well with the bead world.

Kathy K
"Kandice Seeber" wrote in message
...
***sigh*** and I just posted a response over there. Time to go hide

in
the
bunker. Why the hell am I a glutton for punishement? Seriously, I

think
I
bring up some good points, but that whole thread is so full of "Amen!"

"I'm
in!" "You go girl!"and "Me too" posts that I am afraid mine will not

be
well
received.

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net

I have mixed feelings about that whole thread. On the one hand, the
intentions are good, I am sure. The people are mostly nice,

hardworking
and
well-intentioned. On the other hand, price fixing is illegal and

annoying.
I agree about pricing your things in such a way that it mirrors

value
and
hard work. However, I don't agree with a huge group governing that,

or
trying to control things. But I am pretty anti-government, so maybe

it's
just that. Or maybe it's because I haven't had my coffee yet

today,
and
I am cranky.
--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net

Rita says:
"....when 1/2 of the market is undercutting themselves it has not

only
a
trickle down effect but a landslide."

This is what I've always said. It's true, it affects all our

sister
and
brother
beadmakers, jewelrymakers --- and artists as a whole population.

The way I said it recently was deemed unacceptable by some -- but

I've
been
fighting for this for a long, long, long time. People just don't

listen
when
you say "Increase your prices, because it affects us all." I

wanted
to
be
dramatic because the message doesn't get through people's heads,

as
is
evidenced by this thread on Wet Canvas. "The Beadmakers'

Liberation
Front"?
Drama. You have to paint in bright colors for people to GET IT.
~~
Sooz
-------
"Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your

jewelry."
John
Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance
~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html










  #54  
Old February 11th 04, 10:18 PM
KDK
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Well having bought a bead or two of yours I think your prices are fine. And
that discount you offered was awesome!

Kathy K
"Karen_AZ" wrote in message
news:k1rWb.39158$QJ3.18257@fed1read04...
They felt that my wholesale prices were too high, so they couldn't sell

them
retail after their markup. I sell the same beads, with my retail markup
(double my wholesale price) with no problems at other shows. I wasn't

going
to give them an accounting lesson. One less store with my beads in it

isn't
the end of the world.

KarenK

"KDK" wrote in message
...
Did they think your wholesale price was too high? or were they upset
because you were selling items less than they were?

Kathy K
"Karen_AZ" wrote in message
news:zvhWb.37503$QJ3.31997@fed1read04...

"Christina Peterson" wrote in message
news:1076469073.78773@prawn...
Am I the only person who works with lampwork beads who faces this

problem?

Tina


It's interesting, my show partner and I had a run-in with some small

store
owners over the weekend. We both had our beads priced for wholesale

since
it
was primarily a wholesale show. I was willing to take a deeper

discount
for
a reasonable quantity, and said so (30% off $300 purchase). These

ladies
were very unhappy with this and quite vocal about it, saying we were
obviously unwilling to work with them. Well, yes, we were. I'm not
cutthroating my own income to make their store sales easier. Nobody

else
complained, and I came home to 3 large orders, so obviously I'm doing
something right. I do appreciate their position, but I think they had
difficulty in even perceiving mine. I politely told them I had beads

in
several stores already, sold at the same prices. If their local market

can't
handle that, there's not much I can do about it.


--
KarenK
www.desertdreameraz.com
Ebay: http://stores.ebay.com/id=62631780&ssPageName=L2
Justbeads: http://www.justbeads.com/search/ql.cfm?s=DesertDreamer








  #55  
Old February 11th 04, 11:08 PM
AmazeR
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On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 03:11:44 -0800, Kandice Seeber wrote:

Well, it makes sense...however, art is completely subjective. There are no
two beads exactly alike, so it's harder to price fix. Computer parts and
insurance plans may vary form place to place, but have generally
identifiable values. A set of lampwork art beads can be seen as ugly and
worthless by one person and beautiful and worth a lot to another. Quality
is an issue, but is only part of the equation. And ebay is still a
capitalist environment. You absolutely cannot enforce or even imply a
general price fix on anything - even things which are the same.



Having thought about the BLF a little more, I am rather rapidly going off
the idea... As has been said not only in their thread but also in this
forum, choice of how one sells their beads affects the price. If *they*
don't like getting low $ for their beads, then don't choose the auction
arena. Plenty of good suggestions have been made as to alternative ways
of selling ones beads in the wc forum.. I hope some will take up these
suggestions and run with them...

I have never and never will agree with price fixing.. Very uncompetitive
IMHO

Mavis

  #56  
Old February 11th 04, 11:17 PM
AmazeR
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On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 03:18:28 -0800, Kandice Seeber wrote:

Actually, she sells a LOT.



I'm sure she does.. I was a bit TIC there.. ;-))

She does lovely work and I'm sure she has chosen her sales arena where she
would get those prices. I think this is what many on the BLF should be
looking at... not .99c auctions on Ebay and why they are so *bad*...sic

Mavis

  #57  
Old February 11th 04, 11:18 PM
AmazeR
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On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 19:07:17 +0000, Dr. Sooz wrote:


I don't agree with the organization, the "rules", etc. But I wholeheartedly
support the feeling that undercutting is noxious and harmful to beaders and
beadmakers everywhere.
~~
Sooz



Ahh, you said it so beautifully Sooz...

Sometimes I don't articulate well at all!! This is only what I have been
trying to say.. LOL


Mavis

  #58  
Old February 11th 04, 11:20 PM
Christina Peterson
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...."Some people don't know how to start..........."

This is something that should have been addressed. And by the way, Kandice
is my role model for how to sell on eBay. The difference between selling
wholesale (and for wholesale prices) and selling on eBay is the element of
retailing. A lot of the retailing costs are much lower because eBay
provides much of the advertising and acts as a storefront, without the rent.

But the other elements of retailing are there. You have to educate your
customers. You have to explain why your product is better, you have to show
why it's better, and you have to deliver what you claim and have a
consistant product.

Consistant product means you NEVER sell anything but your best, unless you
clearly state that they are seconds, even telling people why they are
seconds. Admitting that "pairs aren't quite the same size ot that the
colors are somewhat muddy, etc. If a lampworker doesn't let the customer
know that they, the artist, know that the color is mudy or the shape is off,
then I as a customer will assume that the bead maker doesn't know good from
bad, or is trying to get top price for an inferior (from their usual, eg)
bead.

And you have to show that your beads are worth your asking price. Over the
net, that means photographic quality that is near professional. If you
aren't that good at photography, have someone else do it, or anticipate
lower prices. My photographics skills, or rather my lack of them, is one
reason why I am selling wholesale.

And you have to take the time to write good copy. That's part of the job of
marketting. You can ask for whatever price you want, but getting that price
depends on marketing. Depends on working at marketing.

One reason that eBay can't command the prices a store front does is that, no
matter what(!), you are always taking a chance on eBay. I might get a bead
and see something on the back that is either better or less good than I had
expected. I might get a bead that is wonderful, but have much more purple
or cobalt in it than it seemed to have in it's photo -- so that it's just as
wonderful as I thought, but not as personally pleasing, and not what I
wanted to spend that much money on (you notice I am not saying it is not
worth the price, but perhaps not worth it to me).

You can't really talk about pricing without talking about selling.

Tina





"meijhana" wrote ...

................... But also, some people don't know how to start, or how

to
find out the information. Sometimes it's "laziness" (i.e. let eBay sell

the
item for me. If I put it on there, it should automatically sell with
5million bids). I think part of this is not just "let's set prices" but

the
education, also. It's not just support of "aww, poor baby, you aren't
getting your prices, but you need to raise them". But support should also
be sharing of hints and help. But not specifically "Here's the formula

for
selling your items and making a million like I do". I agree with most
people when someone comes on here, and says "how do I sell, and where?".
There should be some research, and also, each area is different. But
guiding, and hinting is good. And there *are* "here's the formula" sites
out there! :-)



  #59  
Old February 11th 04, 11:21 PM
Christina Peterson
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However, it is not undercutting to offer lesser beads for a lesser price.

Tina


"Dr. Sooz" wrote

I don't agree with the organization, the "rules", etc. But I

wholeheartedly
support the feeling that undercutting is noxious and harmful to beaders

and
beadmakers everywhere.



  #60  
Old February 11th 04, 11:27 PM
Christina Peterson
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Excuse me, Tink. I'm a little offended at the comment about "and not to
turn into jewelry to resell for a profit". What a beader does is not to
turn beads into jewelry for a profit, any more than what a glassworker does
is to turn glass into beads for a profit.

Tina



"Tinkster" wrote in message
news
This is a really important point. The vast majority of my customers
buy my beads to collect and display, not to turn into jewelry. And not
to turn into jewelry to resell for a profit.



 




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